Do you get some trim?

[Jaybird180]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

Later, I flew with a CFI that flew by the numbers including the #'s of trim rolls. I don't remember any of the settings he used but it was like magic.

Later still, I flew with a guy in his M-20C that trimmed and then folded his arms. The airplane was stable enough that I asked if he or George was flying. I adopted the practice and still use it.

On takeoff and climbout, I usually have to rapidly roll nose-down trim. My wife once noticed my doing it and asked, 'what that control does'.

I don't look at the trim wheel at all after setting for takeoff. As a result, I still don't have good baseline settings (need to fly more) for various phases of flight/ power settings. I set power, set S/L and trim for neutral pressure and forget about it. As an unfortunate (?) consequence, for example, I have no idea what takeoff trim setting would do if I pushed power forward and let her go hands off. Would I get a departure stall or would it climb at some awesome pitch angle?

How well do you know, and how have you gotten more familiar with your pitch trim control.

 

[Henning]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

Later, I flew with a CFI that flew by the numbers including the #'s of trim rolls. I don't remember any of the settings he used but it was like magic.

Later still, I flew with a guy in his M-20C that trimmed and then folded his arms. The airplane was stable enough that I asked if he or George was flying. I adopted the practice and still use it.

On takeoff and climbout, I usually have to rapidly roll nose-down trim. My wife once noticed my doing it and asked, 'what that control does'.

I don't look at the trim wheel at all after setting for takeoff. As a result, I still don't have good baseline settings (need to fly more) for various phases of flight/ power settings. I set power, set S/L and trim for neutral pressure and forget about it. As an unfortunate (?) consequence, for example, I have no idea what takeoff trim setting would do if I pushed power forward and let her go hands off. Would I get a departure stall or would it climb at some awesome pitch angle?

How well do you know, and how have you gotten more familiar with your pitch trim control.

What was your answer? Yes, I knew exactly where my trim indicator needed to be for takeoff at my typical weight.

 

[PaulS]

I see what you did there.

 

[BigBadLou]

You should become good friends with your trim control, it relieves the pressure. Control pressure, that is.
Do not forget, it helps you trim the airplane for airspeed, not power or attitude.

Your CFI should be able to answer any questions you have about trimming the airplane.

 

[Grum.Man]

I am kind of blown away by this post... Not knowing how to properly use your trim is very dangerous. Does your aircraft not mention checking your trim before takeoff on the pre takeoff check list? There should be an indication as to the takeoff trim position somewhere on or beside the trim wheel.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

It wasn't emphasized in my training much accept for the CFI showing how we could trim and fly hands off in cruise.

After reading some on the studentpilot forum, I began trimming after each configuration change and now it is automatic, I am sort of always adjusting the trim even just before flaring.

Part of that also was changing planes. In the 172 it was down on the floor.
In the socatas, the pilot's hand pretty much rests on the trim wheel so you tend to be fidgeting with it all the time.

 

[Jaybird180]

What was your answer? Yes, I knew exactly where my trim indicator needed to be for takeoff at my typical weight.

Likely wasn't a book answer, as I was pushing the yoke, rolling the wheel, checking the ASI and verifying we were clearing the trees all while not climbing into the Bravo on departure.

 

[jordane93]

Every time I change power settings, my hand immediately moves over to the trim wheel. There should be no reason why one should "muscle" through a maneuver. My dad ingrained this is my memory when we trained as he saw it a lot when he was a check airmen for Northwest. He had a lot of new hire and even recurrent training pilots that would muscle through things. He told them to let go of the yoke and trim.

 

[Henning]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

Later, I flew with a CFI that flew by the numbers including the #'s of trim rolls. I don't remember any of the settings he used but it was like magic.

Later still, I flew with a guy in his M-20C that trimmed and then folded his arms. The airplane was stable enough that I asked if he or George was flying. I adopted the practice and still use it.

On takeoff and climbout, I usually have to rapidly roll nose-down trim. My wife once noticed my doing it and asked, 'what that control does'.

I don't look at the trim wheel at all after setting for takeoff. As a result, I still don't have good baseline settings (need to fly more) for various phases of flight/ power settings. I set power, set S/L and trim for neutral pressure and forget about it. As an unfortunate (?) consequence, for example, I have no idea what takeoff trim setting would do if I pushed power forward and let her go hands off. Would I get a departure stall or would it climb at some awesome pitch angle?

How well do you know, and how have you gotten more familiar with your pitch trim control.

Likely wasn't a book answer, as I was pushing the yoke, rolling the wheel, checking the ASI and verifying we were clearing the trees all while not climbing into the Bravo on departure.

The answer is, 'It sets the speed the airplane flies.'

 

[CTLSi]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

Later, I flew with a CFI that flew by the numbers including the #'s of trim rolls. I don't remember any of the settings he used but it was like magic.

Later still, I flew with a guy in his M-20C that trimmed and then folded his arms. The airplane was stable enough that I asked if he or George was flying. I adopted the practice and still use it.

On takeoff and climbout, I usually have to rapidly roll nose-down trim. My wife once noticed my doing it and asked, 'what that control does'.

I don't look at the trim wheel at all after setting for takeoff. As a result, I still don't have good baseline settings (need to fly more) for various phases of flight/ power settings. I set power, set S/L and trim for neutral pressure and forget about it. As an unfortunate (?) consequence, for example, I have no idea what takeoff trim setting would do if I pushed power forward and let her go hands off. Would I get a departure stall or would it climb at some awesome pitch angle?

How well do you know, and how have you gotten more familiar with your pitch trim control.

Wow. If you are not using pitch trim in every phase of flight you are half flying the airplane and working way to hard.

The second you get into ground effect on takeoff and pitch for Vx or Vy you should be relieving stick pressure with the pitch trim. If you have a yoke, that could explain why you are not as sensitive to the pitch trim.

Still, from calm to rough air, from short to long cruise, from base to final, pitch trim is indispensable. It is possible to use aileron and rudder trim, but usually rarely.

 

[brian]]

Wait until you start flying with more ponies under the cowling. You will start using the trim tab or, well, that could be a great way to build upper body strength!

But yea, some phases of flight can be dangerous if you don't have the trim tab set right. Definitely a great way to setup for a power on stall/spin in the right aircraft and settings ...

 

[StinkBug]

On takeoff and climbout, I usually have to rapidly roll nose-down trim.

Sounds like your pre-takeoff setting is way too far back. That's not a good thing, as if you were to go hands off you'd stall the thing right close to the ground. Next time you fly I'd trim for Vy on climb out and note that setting and make that your new take off setting. That or anything nose down from there. I'd rather nose down than stall.

 

[Jaybird180]

Sounds like your pre-takeoff setting is way too far back. That's not a good thing, as if you were to go hands off you'd stall the thing right close to the ground. Next time you fly I'd trim for Vy on climb out and note that setting and make that your new take off setting. That or anything nose down from there. I'd rather nose down than stall.

I set it at the notch that Cessna recommends.

 

[Jaybird180]

Word of note on this thread:

It's not about me. In the OP, I said that it was post solo before I'd discovered the use of the trim wheel. I now know how and use it intuitively.

Henning said in post 2 that he knows where to set the trim based on takeoff weight. I'm not there yet and I set mine on takeoff to the notch provided by the manufacturer.

I've also noticed other pilots have a preferred setting that may differ from the manufacturer takeoff setting. Those that do this, how did you arrive at this preference?

 

[Henning]

Word of note on this thread:

It's not about me. In the OP, I said that it was post solo before I'd discovered the use of the trim wheel. I now know how and use it intuitively.

Henning said in post 2 that he knows where to set the trim based on takeoff weight. I'm not there yet and I set mine on takeoff to the notch provided by the manufacturer.

I've also noticed other pilots have a preferred setting that may differ from the manufacturer takeoff setting. Those that do this, how did you arrive at this preference?

Pretty much everyone I know finds it by experimentation. Next time you take off and spin that trim wheel down for your Vy or preferred initial climb, note that position, use some whiteout or whatever to mark it. Now you have your initial trim position for that weight.

 

[CTLSi]

Word of note on this thread:

It's not about me. In the OP, I said that it was post solo before I'd discovered the use of the trim wheel. I now know how and use it intuitively.

Henning said in post 2 that he knows where to set the trim based on takeoff weight. I'm not there yet and I set mine on takeoff to the notch provided by the manufacturer.

I've also noticed other pilots have a preferred setting that may differ from the manufacturer takeoff setting. Those that do this, how did you arrive at this preference?

The best way to set trim is in flight. Relieving pressure on the stick is the feedback you need. The only pre takeoff setting you should have, unless otherwise specified in the POH, is neutral.

 

[BigBadLou]

Word of note on this thread:I've also noticed other pilots have a preferred setting that may differ from the manufacturer takeoff setting. Those that do this, how did you arrive at this preference?

"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."
(I forget who said it, sorry)

 

[CTLSi]

"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."
(I forget who said it, sorry)

Mark Twain

 

[denverpilot]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

Face palm. That instructor should not be instructing. Sigh.

 

[flyingron]

Light planes like 152/172 can be thrown around without moving the trim, though you'll find things work out better once you learn how to trim it. When you go to higher power/bigger planes you'll find you have to trim.

 

[denverpilot]

The best way to set trim is in flight. Relieving pressure on the stick is the feedback you need. The only pre takeoff setting you should have, unless otherwise specified in the POH, is neutral.

Or marked on the trim device, as in almost every Cessna single. Of course those needles jump grooves so it's best to know where the actual trim tab generally should be. Pull back on elevator during "flight controls free and CORRECT" after setting it, and LOOK.

(And no, it isn't neutral when it's right.)

 

[petrolero]

Trim depends on W&B so I don't bother with specific numbers of rolls or whatever. I just adjust it to whatever I need the airplane to do at that phase of flight. It's a feel thing. With electric trim, it is easy to adjust while keeping eyes out.

 

[Mistake Not...]

I never really messed with trim (and should have) in 150s, 172s.

The mooney, I have to use it. Control forces are too heavy if I don't. I've gotten really good at it.

To my surprise, I find I prefer the trim wheel and hardly ever touch the electric trim switch.

The $800 electric trim switch.

 

[bluerooster]

I am kind of blown away by this post... Not knowing how to properly use your trim is very dangerous. Does your aircraft not mention checking your trim before takeoff on the pre takeoff check list? There should be an indication as to the takeoff trim position somewhere on or beside the trim wheel.

The airplane that I fly regularly has a mark, a trim setting for takeoff.
At rotation, I roll from there to nose down, to maintane 80mph and a positive rate. Lest I be fighting the controls.
The "takeoff" position is more or less neutral, to serve all weights, and loadings. At rotation, you'll know what needs to be done to establish a climb at a given airspeed. I allways trim for zero control pressure for a given configuration.

I've found that some people like to feel a tad of pressure in one direction or the other, But I like to trim for hands off.
My uncle likes to have a tad of nose up trim, which he corrects with his thumb on the yoke. (he must have a pretty stout thumb), when he said "your airplane". I hadda crank in quite a bit of nose down trim. Then he asked me a question; "What's the first thing Orville did when it was his turn to fly?" Adjust the trim. I looked at my Dad (who was in the back seat) and he just nodded.

 

[James331]

...CFI that flew by the numbers including the #'s of trim rolls.

I'd say that's a bit much lol

 

[RalphInCA]

My instructor probably mentioned trim within 5 minutes of our first flight. And then he reminded me frequently thereafter. Any time I have to hold the elevator in a position for more than a few seconds --->>> TRIM

 

[madtrader]

My primary instructors (in a 152) taught trim as a way to relieve yoke pressure. I was amazed when I figured out trimming for speed.

 

[Henning]

I'd say that's a bit much lol

Not really, you should know how many flicks of trim you need to throw in to make gross speed adjustments within 5 kts or so, especially where you do things in a regimented fashion like in the pattern. You should be able to throw in the trim predictively as you decelerate and reconfigure, ie 'hit the flap switch and give 2 flicks nose up' or whatever to get you set for for final speed, then set the throttle to make the descent path you need.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

Sounds like your pre-takeoff setting is way too far back. That's not a good thing, as if you were to go hands off you'd stall the thing right close to the ground. Next time you fly I'd trim for Vy on climb out and note that setting and make that your new take off setting. That or anything nose down from there. I'd rather nose down than stall.

Have you ever tried to stall the airplane hands off with only full nose-up trim? I'm guessing that if the airplane is properly rigged and within cg limits you can't get a high enuf' angle of attack with trim alone to stall.

 

[peerlesscowboy]

I recall as a student pilot the day I discovered the trim wheel. I have no idea why my instructor didn't discuss more about it, but I don't think I'd ever used it through solo. I muscled the aircraft through every maneuver.

With the typical 2 place trainer such as the Cessna 150/152 control forces are so light it's hardy worth the effort of bothering to trim for anything except getting the thing to fly hands off in cruise.

 

[asechrest]

With the typical 2 place trainer such as the Cessna 150/152 control forces are so light it's hardy worth the effort of bothering to trim for anything except getting the thing to fly hands off in cruise.

I would think that constantly flying out of trim would make you numb to the control forces involved in "feeling" the airplane since you'd always be muscling it around. One thing I am careful to note when flying is whether I'm fighting the trim. If I have the plane trimmed for a specific speed and I notice myself pulling against the trim, I'll usually ask myself why I am doing that. Is it because I truly want that new airspeed (in which case I should set my attitude and re-trim), or is it because I'm pulling and slowing up without realizing it? I am careful to note that a properly trimmed airplane in normal flight regimes will not stall itself.

 

[Jaybird180]

This is the reason I adopted the fold arm routine after changes and configuring for cruise, etc. let the airplane settle hands-off.

 

[Dav8or]

I thought this thread was about girls.

 

[iflyvfr]

When I started lessons the first time, my instructor NEVER mentioned trim. I flew the summer with him fighting thermals and downdrafts and he never once said a thing about trimming the airplane. I washed out with him after 40 hours.

Fast forward 10 years and when I restarted my instructor brought it up right away. When I told him I was unfamiliar, he about fell out of the 150 we were in. I was actually mad at my old CFI for awhile.

Some who instruct, shouldn't. I've met a few.

 

[Jaybird180]

I thought this thread was about girls.

Dude, were talking airplanes here

 

[yakdriver]

With the typical 2 place trainer such as the Cessna 150/152 control forces are so light it's hardy worth the effort of bothering to trim for anything except getting the thing to fly hands off in cruise.

That is such BS. I fly several airplanes (RV-7, Extra, Pitts) that make a 152 seem like a truck and I always trim precisely. Don

 

[peerlesscowboy]

......................... make a 152 seem like a truck and I always trim precisely.

I must say, I've never heard of a Cessna 152 described that way

 

[Hobobiker]

I'll bet I heard my CFI's mantra 1000 times while getting my Private, especially while in downwind/base/final..."pitch for [insert whatever speed here], adjust your trim".

 

[PPC1052]

The second you get into ground effect on takeoff and pitch for Vx or Vy you should be relieving stick pressure with the pitch trim.

I find myself having to quickly roll more nose down trim as my plane accelerates just after leaving the ground. So I quickly go from pulling back on the yoke to rotate, to pushing forward hard, and rolling nose down trim. Sort of the opposite of what one might expect.

 

[PPC1052]

I set it at the notch that Cessna recommends.

I set it nose down from the notch that Cessna recommends. But I still have to roll nose down after take off. It's just the plane accelerating. There is no cause for alarm.