Do regs require that an up-to-date VFR sectional and AFD be on board?

[poadeleted20]

Since by your own admission you have never experienced a ramp check, and considering 8900.1 is guidance and not a regulation, most inspectors don't go chasing each and every item in the guidance.

That's not quite true. FAA Order 8900.1 contains directives information as well as "guidance":

1-5 DIRECTIVE AND GUIDANCE INFORMATION.

A. Directive Information. Directive information is information considered directive in nature, contains terms such as “shall,” “will,” or “must,” and means the actions are mandatory. “Shall not” prohibits the action. The use of these terms will leave no flexibility, and inspectors must follow their direction unless otherwise authorized by HQ.

B. Guidance Information. Guidance information is information considered guiding in nature and will contain terms such as “should” or “may.”

1) “Should” indicates actions that are expected. If the “should” expectation cannot be met, what was done to comply must be documented. Resulting mitigating actions must be taken and communicated as appropriate.

2) “May” indicates actions that are desirable, permissive, or not mandatory, and allow flexibility.

Note that the section regarding ramp inspections does not use the word "should" or "may" in the section regarding the procedure for conducting one, from which the line about determining whether current charts are on board was taken.

There is no regulation requiring a part 91 pilot to have "current" charts, so other than saying "gee, up to date charts would be nifty" I don't see any point in chasing it down.

You're not every Inspector, and others do, as their FAA Order directs, ask about it, and follow up with other pertinent questions if the pilot does not have current charts. So I suggest those folks reading this be prepared for an Inspector who does what the FAA directs them in writing to do.

 

[poadeleted20]

Emphasis Mine.

"Pertinent" for a $100 hamburger run is different from a 1000NM XC.

I suspect that anybody taking off on a long XC will need the relevant charts with them anyway.

I agree. A current local sectional would probably be sufficient for a $100 hamburger run on a sunny Saturday, but you'd need a whole lot more for a transcontinental trek. But it was six years from the time Salisbury Tower was established until the last person with a pre-Tower sectional landed there talking on the old CTAF from their ancient expired sectional, and that's the sort of thing this is all trying to prevent. Just be smart about this, and you won't have to worry about it on a ramp check, anyway.

 

[RotorAndWing]

That's not quite true. FAA Order 8900.1 contains directives information as well as "guidance":
Note that the section regarding ramp inspections does not use the word "should" or "may" in the section regarding the procedure for conducting one, from which the line about determining whether current charts are on board was taken.

You're not every Inspector, and others do, as their FAA Order directs, ask about it, and follow up with other pertinent questions if the pilot does not have current charts. So I suggest those folks reading this be prepared for an Inspector who does what the FAA directs them in writing to do.

Again, you google a document, make your "interpretation" and try to convince everyone yours is the only and correct one.

So on a ramp check (part 91) the Inspector is as anal as you are, and wants to see a "current chart" and the pilot doesn't produce one. What's the violation here?

 

[poadeleted20]

Again, you google a document, make your "interpretation" and try to convince everyone yours is the only and correct one.

Again, you suggest that all Inspectors are as lax as you were about following the rules published for them to abide by.

So on a ramp check (part 91) the Inspector is as anal as you are, and wants to see a "current chart" and the pilot doesn't produce one. What's the violation here?

Who ever said there was one? I just said you should be prepared for some searching questions related to safe flying, which, after all, is (or should be) an ASI's primary interest. Of course, if the reason the Inspector is conducting the ramp inspection is that the pilot just violated some flight rule, then there is already a violation and the discovered lack of current charts is, as quoted above from the Chief Counsel, an aggravating factor in the ensuing enforcement action, and maybe even the difference between an administrative action and an enforcement action.

 

[RotorAndWing]

Again, you suggest that all Inspectors are as lax as you were about following the rules published for them to abide by.

Let's put out a few FACTS here Ron.

1. I attended ALL of the required training to become an Inspector including a full OJT program with seasoned highly experienced Inspectors. They along with my supervisors didn't have a problem with how I did my job.

2. You are not, nor ever been trained by the FAA on ANY areas concerning Inspectors.

3. You, by your own admission, have NEVER been ramped checked by the FAA.

Those are FACTS my friend. You can google FAA docs all day long, but in the end you have ZERO working knowledge on how to apply them.

Who ever said there was one? I just said you should be prepared for some searching questions related to safe flying, which, after all, is (or should be) an ASI's primary interest. Of course, if the reason the Inspector is conducting the ramp inspection is that the pilot just violated some flight rule, then there is already a violation and the discovered lack of current charts is, as quoted above from the Chief Counsel, an aggravating factor in the ensuing enforcement action, and maybe even the difference between an administrative action and an enforcement action.

 

[EdFred]

but...but...but....44 YEARS!!!!!!

 

[poadeleted20]

All you folks reading this and thinking they don't have to worry about it should print out this thread and show it to the Inspector who questions you about current charts, telling him/her that an anonymous former FAA Inspector said Inspectors don't ask about this. If you can record the ensuing conversation, I'd love to hear it.

 

[RV10flyer]

But seriously, doesn't everybody have ForeFlight nowadays?

Yes, or should have something similar.

 

[Palmpilot]

Same for the LAX SFRA. But seriously, doesn't everybody have ForeFlight nowadays?

No, because not everybody has an iPad or iPhone.

 

[RotorAndWing]

All you folks reading this and thinking they don't have to worry about it should print out this thread and show it to the Inspector who questions you about current charts, telling him/her that an anonymous former FAA Inspector said Inspectors don't ask about this. If you can record the ensuing conversation, I'd love to hear it.

You're a walking parody Ron.

 

[denverpilot]

...but no fewer than 3 flight instructors from the audience chimed in to confirm that "the regs require" current charts aboard the aircraft.

It's always nice when that happens so you can note which ones never to hire.

Seems like every time I go to a safety seminar there's at least a couple that make the no-go list.

 

[azure]

It's always nice when that happens so you can note which ones never to hire.

Except I only heard their voices, didn't see their faces or get their names. Interestingly, I just made an appointment with a local CFII for a BFR+IPC tomorrow morning. He asked if he'd ever met me, and I said not that I know of, but maybe, if he was at the seminar at BTV a few weeks ago. He said "Oh, yeah" but didn't actually say he was there. So I guess I'll find out tomorrow whether he's one of "them".