Do glider pilots have the best stick and rudder skills?

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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I spoke to a Flight Instructor that flies gliders. He mentioned that Glider pilots have better stick and rudder skills than the average pilot because most pilots don't practice engine out situations and Glider pilots do all the time. He said here are some of the advantages:

#1. Glider Pilots learn stick and rudder skills first, it's a good skill to transition over to Cessna's and then get your PPL

#2. It's cheap flight, no fuel necessary you can go up every time for 40 bucks. The 40 bucks is for the airplane to tow you.

#3. Your landing skills has to be sharp, no going around and that is a huge benefit when you transition over.

#4. Energy Management.

What do you folks think?
 
I more or less agree.


Did my initial flight training in a taildragger, in hindsight, if I could go back I would have started off in a glider and built everything up from there.
 
I am low time in gliders but would say that it all depends on the pilot, that is I wouldn't fetishize one type of flying as better than another. However, glider flying in the mountains, ridge flying, etc. does force you to focus on stick and rudder skills if you want to stay alive, so perhaps the incentives are greater to fly better. I certainly got quite focused in the French Alps flying a wingspan from a rock faces. But I would say the best stick and rudder skills come about because of good training and currency in any plane. :eek:
 
I think that CFI was bang on and while you're at it you ought to consider some basic aerobatics/EMT/Extreme Unusual Attitude Recovery Training as well as getting your taildragger endorsement.

The glider training for the reasons mentioned above plus a couple of others.

The basic aerobatic course/EMT to help inoculate you against stall/spin accidents (still a major factor in the fatal accident rate) and the tailwheel endorsement to finally teach you what your friggen feet are for.

You're not out to become an international sailplane champion, or Bob Hoover or anything else. A little bit of good aerobatic training will go a very long way. Those courses are readily available.

Flying a glider for most of us is easy - they let 14 year olds solo them and you can get your PPL at 16. When you've got that rating in your pocket engine failure won't be quite as intimidating as it is for many of us. "Engine??? I don't need no stinking engine!"
 
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A point missed was the fact that gliders typically have much longer wings which amplify the effects of adverse yaw. Glider pilots quickly learn why you have a rudder and how to use it.

As for cheap, well...that depends on your soaring skills and current conditions. A 20 minute sled ride for $40 may prove to be fairly expensive flying! I've done plentry of those!
 
WhiskeyPapa said:
I am low time in gliders but would say that it all depends on the pilot, that is I wouldn't fetishize one type of flying as better than another. However, glider flying in the mountains, ridge flying, etc. does force you to focus on stick and rudder skills if you want to stay alive, so perhaps the incentives are greater to fly better. I certainly got quite focused in the French Alps flying a wingspan from a rock faces. But I would say the best stick and rudder skills come about because of good training and currency in any plane. :eek:
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Yes and no, many of the trainer type planes mask so much, you might think your stick and rudder are spot on, but go fly a tailwheel or glider and you may be in for a surprise.
 
LDJones said:
A point missed was the fact that gliders typically have much longer wings which amplify the effects of adverse yaw. Glider pilots quickly learn why you have a rudder and how to use it.

As for cheap, well...that depends on your soaring skills and current conditions. A 20 minute sled ride for $40 may prove to be fairly expensive flying! I've done plentry of those!
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Oh yeah on the adverse yaw. I've heard it said that in the long run towards becoming a good pilot you'll get the best bang for your buck by starting in gliders, then do enough time in a taildragger to get somewhat proficient, then finish up conventional. Makes all the sense in the world to me.
 
I recently decided to add a glider rating to my fixed and heli for the reason the OP states, to become a better and safer fixed wing pilot.
So far, I haven't been disappointed. In fact, I got a lot more than I had expected. The fun factor is hard to put into words. Being up there on my own, surrounded by a panorama clear canopy, and finding thermals to climb and keep myself up indefinitely despite my minimal experience is super rewarding.
My goal is to find thermals (or ridge, wave) when I lose my fixed wing engine and just play around a bit before coming in to land. :yes:
 
Any stick and rudder plane will give you stick and rudder skills, powered or not.
 
I started out with a glider rating and then transitioned to SE. Flying gliders gives you good experience managing your energy, especially during landing. As far as stick and rudder coordination, I think a C150 or taildragger would be just as good for learning those skills. If you're close to a glider operation and really enjoy flying, it's a must to at least try it out.
 
luvflyin said:
Oh yeah on the adverse yaw. I've heard it said that in the long run towards becoming a good pilot you'll get the best bang for your buck by starting in gliders, then do enough time in a taildragger to get somewhat proficient, then finish up conventional. Makes all the sense in the world to me.
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Conventional IS Tailwheel, just sayin'


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Lots of glider ops at my home field and from my experience they have their fair share of ham fisted idiots just like any other segment. There are certain aspects of flight that glider pilots have to concentrate on and certain powered flight aspects that they don't have to deal with so, in general no, I don't consider them to be superpilots. If a particular glider pilot is very good he's simply a good pilot and would be a good pilot in a Cessna as well.
 
RotorDude said:
My goal is to find thermals (or ridge, wave) when I lose my fixed wing engine and just play around a bit before coming in to land. :yes:
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I used to fly with a glider guy who decided to try power planes...started taking lessons in a Traumahawk. First time the instructor pulled the engine on him, he thermalled it back to the airport.:rofl:
 
MauleSkinner said:
I used to fly with a glider guy who decided to try power planes...started taking lessons in a Traumahawk. First time the instructor pulled the engine on him, he thermalled it back to the airport.:rofl:
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Cool!!! :yes:
 
LDJones said:
A point missed was the fact that gliders typically have much longer wings which amplify the effects of adverse yaw. Glider pilots quickly learn why you have a rudder and how to use it.

As for cheap, well...that depends on your soaring skills and current conditions. A 20 minute sled ride for $40 may prove to be fairly expensive flying! I've done plentry of those!
Click to expand...


Adverse yaw amply demonstrated during one of my maneuvers.

The turn-off for me is the 2 hour drive each way to the airport.
 
James331 said:
Yes and no, many of the trainer type planes mask so much, you might think your stick and rudder are spot on, but go fly a tailwheel or glider and you may be in for a surprise.
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I'm sufficiently hamfisted that I look bad in trainers too!!!:eek:
 
Gilders and/or J-3 cubs are the best for beginning pilots to learn real stick and rudder skills. Or experienced ones also.
 
JimNtexas said:
Gilders and/or J-3 cubs are the best for beginning pilots to learn real stick and rudder skills. Or experienced ones also.
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Or Champs, or even a Citabria. Other good planes out there. I actually thought the Apollo Fox - a Kitfox knockoff was a pretty good stick and rudder trainer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
luvflyin said:
I've heard it said that in the long run towards becoming a good pilot you'll get the best bang for your buck by starting in gliders, then do enough time in a taildragger to get somewhat proficient, then finish up On a trike. Makes all the sense in the world to me.
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I basically did that but did 1,000+ hours at each step.

Gliders can teach you a lot but are really easy unless you move on to cross country soaring. Then, more than anything else, you'll learn about weather.

Tail wheel is where you really learn about take offs, landings, and the winds that can make them such a challenge.

Once you have an engine or two and a nose wheel, you can work on getting from A to B, on schedule and in one piece.

Some Acro training is just plain good stuff for any all even if it's not your thing.

But none of it is really required. Bucks are what's required.
Silvaire said:
Lots of glider ops at my home field and from my experience they have their fair share of ham fisted idiots just like any other segment. There are certain aspects of flight that glider pilots have to concentrate on and certain powered flight aspects that they don't have to deal with so, in general no, I don't consider them to be superpilots. If a particular glider pilot is very good he's simply a good pilot and would be a good pilot in a Cessna as well.
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True enough.
 
Ho hum. Everyone says their kind of flying is the best. Everyone thinks their airplane is the best. Around and around it goes.

I'll add my $.02. The most important thing about flying is the judgement that goes on between the pilot's ears, and not the stuff going on between his (or her) hands.
 
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I've flown with 3 pilots that started out in gliders. Sorry, but I did not see a difference.
 
JimNtexas said:
Gilders and/or J-3 cubs are the best for beginning pilots to learn real stick and rudder skills. Or experienced ones also.
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Composite LSA like Samba, Flight Design, Pipistrel, Sting, Remos are slippery like a glider and stick and rudder.
 
steingar said:
Ho hum. Everyone says their kind of flying is the best. Everyone thinks their airplane is the best. Around and around it goes.

I'll add my $.02. The most important thing about flying is the judgement that goes on in the pilot's head, and not the stuff going on with his or her extremities.
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Think the subject was what is the best to start out in.

If the question was what type of flying is the best, the correct answer is obviously float flying, duh! :D



denverpilot said:
Plenty of awful glider pilots out there.

https://youtu.be/cX4oFDEKm94
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That's a awfully nice glider for such a rookie.
 
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Silvaire said:
If a particular glider pilot is very good he's simply a good pilot and would be a good pilot in a Cessna as well.
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Can there be a difference between a good pilot when the engine works and a good pilot when the engine doesn't? Suppose those two situations combine?

Bill Watson said:
I basically did that but did 1,000+ hours at each step.

Gliders can teach you a lot but are really easy unless you move on to cross country soaring. Then, more than anything else, you'll learn about weather.

Tail wheel is where you really learn about take offs, landings, and the winds that can make them such a challenge.

Once you have an engine or two and a nose wheel, you can work on getting from A to B, on schedule and in one piece.

Some Acro training is just plain good stuff for any all even if it's not your thing.

But none of it is really required. Bucks are what's required.
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For my situation the quest for me is to be a good pilot. When I go up, I need to be ready as much as I can. Learning how to soar can be a good option to learn just in case. It's a club membership which is inexpensive and it's 40 bucks every time you go up it's a really good option to get into the air. So my thoughts are:

1. Glider Training

2. Acrobatic Training

3. PPL Training (Cessna/Piper)
 
I'm sure there are awful pilots in general as well

Was the red things that came up in the wings speed brakes? I didn't know Gliders had those!

 
Spoilers. He should have used them a bit earlier....speaking of "energy management"
 
I flew power for over 20 years before flying gliders. After I started flying gliders I noticed a difference in my power flying.

Glider pilots are more "in tune" with the airframe, adverse yaw is a big factor. Formation flying on tow, precise flying to stay in position, box wake, slack line control. The dreaded 180 return to the airfield on takeoff drills in speed/pitch and coordination control. Speed control and energy management for landing.

Glider pilots tend to be more aware of the wind, thermal, ridge effects and crosswind effects on approach and landing.

They learn all that without having to worry about or manage an engine.

Yes there are ham pilots and finesse pilots. You find them in all types of aircraft.
Some people there is no hope for.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I'm sure there are awful pilots in general as well

Was the red things that came up in the wings speed brakes? I didn't know Gliders had those!

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Most gliders have spoilers or airbrakes, not speed brakes.
Speed is controlled by pitch, not funny things on the wings.
Some gliders do not have spoilers and use 90 degree drag inducing flaps.
 
They like to thinks so.
Maybe it's just over compensating for not being able to afford an engine.
Or not knowing how to use one.

:D
 
There are good glider pilots and bad glider pilots. An adequate power pilot without good stick and rudder skills could probably get a glider from release to landing. Towing and thermalling I think would be a different story. I'm far from a good glider pilot--I've only been doing it for a couple of years and my farthest flight is ~50 miles--but maintaining precise airspeed in a steep turn, eyes outside is challenging. And knowing that every approach must lead to a landing will keep you on your toes.

But I wouldn't say cheaper. Yes, if you own your own glider and conditions and your skill allow you to stay up indefinitely, you can have a day of fun for ~$40. But if either of those is not true, you might spend more than renting a plane. Especially as a student, I had plenty of sled rides on days when others were flying five-hour cross countries.
 
FloridaPilot said:
For my situation the quest for me is to be a good pilot. When I go up, I need to be ready as much as I can. Learning how to soar can be a good option to learn just in case. It's a club membership which is inexpensive and it's 40 bucks every time you go up it's a really good option to get into the air. So my thoughts are:

1. Glider Training

2. Acrobatic Training

3. PPL Training (Cessna/Piper)
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You should go for it. I trained in airplanes off and on until I (re)discovered soaring and was hooked. Gliding, especially training, can be expensive UNLESS you are lucky enough to have access to a club. Then it can be more than reasonable. I got my ticket and learned the basics while in the club but then I was stuck. Really wanted to go cross country and generally that requires your own ship here in the US.

I took the leap and never looked back until I was done. I was lucky enough to find a group of like minded enthusiasts and we flew every weekend. Got into competition, did a lot of ridge soaring and made a lot of out landings. Great fun all around. Switched back to power when I moved away from my soaring buddies.

Soaring is great! But of course, all flying is great!
 
1) There's a lot more to "stick & rudder" than just stick & rudder. This is often an expression for overall manual flying ability, not soley adverse yaw control.

2) Engine out?? Of course gliders have an edge in that... After all, they're GLIDERS with spoilers!!! The plane has a built in advantage. That's not always guaranteed about the pilot.
 
Bill Watson said:
You should go for it. I trained in airplanes off and on until I (re)discovered soaring and was hooked. Gliding, especially training, can be expensive UNLESS you are lucky enough to have access to a club. Then it can be more than reasonable. I got my ticket and learned the basics while in the club but then I was stuck. Really wanted to go cross country and generally that requires your own ship here in the US.

I took the leap and never looked back until I was done. I was lucky enough to find a group of like minded enthusiasts and we flew every weekend. Got into competition, did a lot of ridge soaring and made a lot of out landings. Great fun all around. Switched back to power when I moved away from my soaring buddies.

Soaring is great! But of course, all flying is great!
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Exactly my thoughts! Thanks!

This is not a Glider vs Airplane bashing thread so please don't take offense to this post. The reason for the post is to learn if there is any benefit to learning in a Glider. I'm going to transition over to Engine Airplanes anyway because that is my end goal!
 
Great wisdom here:
Kritchlow said:
1) There's a lot more to "stick & rudder" than just stick & rudder. This is often an expression for overall manual flying ability, not soley adverse yaw control.
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Yes! Inflight you simply deal with the adverse yaw you encounter and there is usually no one to see how well you do. Do a poor xwind landing in a tailwheel and invariably there will be a concurrent airport committee meeting underway. You will be graded! TW is where you get your stick and rudder badge. Nonetheless, the scarcity of TW aircraft may be a clue as to how valuable those skills are to your survival.
2) Engine out?? Of course gliders have an edge in that... After all, they're GLIDERS with spoilers!!! The plane has a built in advantage. That's not always guaranteed about the pilot.
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Short field spot landings in spoiler equipped gliders are a piece of cake (this not apply to flaps-only designs which should all be burned in hell). i can land one within 10' of a spot 10 out of 10 attempts. i have almost 50 successful off field landings logged. However I'm ashamed to admit I failed my Commercial check ride in a Mooney on the power off spot landing... Twice. Could barely find the runway on either attempt. Hubris in the extreme.
 
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