DL valid for ID?

[Matthew]

We need a Gov't issued picture ID to go with our license/certificate.

I'm in a State that is phasing in the RealID requirements, so in 2020 my current DL won't be valid as ID when flying commercially unless I renew it and get a RealID compliant version.

I heard today that also means my current DL won't be valid for a GA license. Does that sound right?

 

[mscard88]

We accept DL (and birth Cert/passport) when vetting student pilots, haven't heard anything like that. As far as I know, a student only has to carry their SP Cert, Medical, logbook, and government ID, so a a DL is good for the rest of us too.

 

[frfly172]

Started carrying my passport,makes it much easier.

 

[wsuffa]

Passport card. Wallet size, good for 10 years, no address on it. Accepted by TSA as valid ID.

 

[eman1200]

...I'm in a State that is phasing in the RealID requirements, so in 2020 my current DL won't be valid as ID when flying commercially unless I renew it and get a RealID….

I don't think that's entirely true. you can still have your old license, you'll just need additional paperwork on top of that.

 

[Matthew]

I don't think that's entirely true. you can still have your old license, you'll just need additional paperwork on top of that.

In KS, you get a DL that says "RealID" or "Not For Federal ID".

My DL doesn't say either because I renewed mine a month or two before they made that change (early last year). TSA/DHS says in 2020 I need a RealID to fly commercial (or passport, or something else).

Today I heard that same requirement applies to a pilot certificate if the DL is "Not For Federal ID". I guess it makes sense since FAA are Feds, I just hadn't though about it.

 

[Wheels]

The REAL ID act specifies that a compliant ID is required for official purposes, in the act that is defined as :

``Official purpose'' is defined under Sec. 201 of the Act to include access to Federal facilities, boarding Federally-regulated commercial aircraft, entry into nuclear power plants, and such other purposes as established by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

I can’t find anywhere that the Secretary has established any other purposes so I would say it depends on whether or not you are flying a commercial aircraft.

FAR 61.3 says that when exercising the privileges of your certificate that you must have a picture ID. One of the IDs that is listed is a Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States. It doesn’t say that the license must be REAL ID compliant.

 

[ARFlyer]

It will still be accepted. Only issue is you won't be let through the door at the FSDO if it says something along the lines of "Not a Federal ID".

I still haven't gotten one and won't till I have no choice. It's a pain in the ass process that takes an entire afternoon. I use my Global Entry card for TSA on personal trips. I don't trust some of their hiring choices.

 

[Everskyward]

I use my Global Entry card for TSA on personal trips.

I didn't know you could do that. I'm in the same boat of not having a "real ID" driver's license, and am not entertained by the idea of going back to the DMV around here. They started issuing "real ID" a couple months after I got my license. I knew I could use a passport, but didn't realize a Global Entry card would work too.

 

[Half Fast]

It's a weird world....

When I renewed my DL last month, they wanted to see proof of my residence, and they would accept something like a phone bill. I tried to use my pilot certificate - federally issued, has my address on it. Nope, not acceptable. "Here, just sign this affidavit instead." So they accept my word as better evidence than my certificate.

Strange...

 

[NJP_MAN]

I don't plan on getting a new ID even though it's not of the RealID variety. I won't get a new one until 2047 when mine expires.

 

[Unit74]

It's all fun and games till you get your certificate suspended.......

Pilots license....federal. State that did not comply with Real ID act of 2005 drivers license, not recognized. The non complaint ID is worthless on the federal side. Period.

 

[Zeldman]

When I renewed my DL last month, they wanted to see proof of my residence, and they would accept something like a phone bill. I tried to use my pilot certificate - federally issued, has my address on it. Nope, not acceptable. "Here, just sign this affidavit instead." So they accept my word as better evidence than my certificate.

Did you tell them that the phone company did not check your status as a resident when they put a phone line in..??

 

[wsuffa]

I didn't know you could do that. I'm in the same boat of not having a "real ID" driver's license, and am not entertained by the idea of going back to the DMV around here. They started issuing "real ID" a couple months after I got my license. I knew I could use a passport, but didn't realize a Global Entry card would work too.

Yes, a passport will work, a passport card will work, a Global Entry card will work, and a Nexus card will work. Passport Cards are not valid for crossing the border with air travel, but they ARE valid as an ID at the TSA checkpoints.

I've been using mine for close to 10 years now - I started when a TSA screener started asking me questions about my house and neighborhood on my driver license. No Bueno. I prefer an ID with no address on it for going through a checkpoint.

 

[Clip4]

Until they change 61.3(a)
(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:
(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

Any drivers license you have issued by a State is valid.

 

[ARFlyer]

I didn't know you could do that. I'm in the same boat of not having a "real ID" driver's license, and am not entertained by the idea of going back to the DMV around here. They started issuing "real ID" a couple months after I got my license. I knew I could use a passport, but didn't realize a Global Entry card would work too.

It also gives you Pre-Check if you input the number into your airline profile.

I've been using mine for close to 10 years now - I started when a TSA screener started asking me questions about my house and neighborhood on my driver license. No Bueno. I prefer an ID with no address on it for going through a checkpoint.

Yeah I'm the same way.

 

[Everskyward]

It also gives you Pre-Check if you input the number into your airline profile.

Yes, I like that feature too. I have also used it for its intended purpose, expediting customs when entering the US. I'm wondering if I need to update something since I now have a new passport.

 

[James331]

We need a Gov't issued picture ID to go with our license/certificate.

I'm in a State that is phasing in the RealID requirements, so in 2020 my current DL won't be valid as ID when flying commercially unless I renew it and get a RealID compliant version.

I heard today that also means my current DL won't be valid for a GA license. Does that sound right?

No, don’t read words into thing which arnt there.

Until they change 61.3(a)
(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:
(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

Any drivers license you have issued by a State is valid.

THAT.

Passport card. Wallet size, good for 10 years, no address on it. Accepted by TSA as valid ID.

Me too, I got mine because it was only like another $20 when I renewed my passport and I go up to canada all the time.

But yeah, it’s a fed photo ID, and it also doesn’t have more info than is needed (like no address) so when someone asks for ID that’s my default too.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

Yes, I like that feature too. I have also used it for its intended purpose, expediting customs when entering the US. I'm wondering if I need to update something since I now have a new passport.

Yes, you do, or it won’t work at the kiosk.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...ssports-or-making-changes-to-your-ttp-account

 

[Unit74]

Until they change 61.3(a)
(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:
(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;

Any drivers license you have issued by a State is valid.

No it's not. Go read the Real ID Act of 2005. New law, new requirements.

 

[Wheels]

No it's not. Go read the Real ID Act of 2005. New law, new requirements.

Have you read the Real ID act of 2005? It specifically list the purposes that require a Real ID act compliant ID and none of them have anything to do with exercising the rights of a pilot certificate. They may change that but the way the law is currently written a non compliant ID is perfectly fine along with your pilot certificate.

 

[Unit74]

Have you read the Real ID act of 2005? It specifically list the purposes that require a Real ID act compliant ID and none of them have anything to do with exercising the rights of a pilot certificate. They may change that but the way the law is currently written a non compliant ID is perfectly fine along with your pilot certificate.

nope. You are wrong. Straight up. Learn to read law and how one law effects another. I've read the law, as written and codified, cover to cover, numerous times. Your non-compliant ID is invalid for any federal purpose. A pilots certificate is a federal action. It does not apply. Do you not see the irony in your arguements? The whole reason the real ID Act was drafted was because of 9/11. Are you guys that dense you can't see why they passed it? If there was any one thing it would apply to it would be a pilots certificate..... it's an anti terrorism Act. Gawd it's like pulling teeth......

 

[James331]

nope. You are wrong. Straight up. Learn to read law and how one law effects another. I've read the law, as written and codified, cover to cover, numerous times. Your non-compliant ID is invalid for any federal purpose. A pilots certificate is a federal action. It does not apply. Do you not see the irony in your arguements? The whole reason the real ID Act was drafted was because of 9/11. Are you guys that dense you can't see why they passed it? If there was any one thing it would apply to it would be a pilots certificate..... it's an anti terrorism Act. Gawd it's like pulling teeth......

As a PILOT I’m held to the text of the FAR.

Doesn’t say “real ID” in the FAR, I don’t need a “real ID”. Full stop

I do get a kick out of the terrorist™ laws, they are both scary as a constitutionalist, as they are funny as someone who enjoys logic and sees how they would have, and currently do nothing to stop any of the attacks.

 

[Palmpilot]

As a PILOT I’m held to the text of the FAR.

AND any statutes that apply. If they conflict, statutes trump regulations.

 

[James331]

AND any statutes that apply. If they conflict, statutes trump regulations.

If it’s important put it in the FAR, if it’s not important enough to put it in the FAR its not important enough for me to care about.

Overall you’re telling me our yuuuge government can’t be bothered to fire up a PC and type another few words into part 61.3?

I’ll follow the FAR, nothing more nothing less.

I mean if I can’t go outside the FAR to protect myself against the FAA, not even my constitutional RIGHTS apply to the FAAs “administrative law”, so it’s a two way street, ether I’m held to the FAR or not.

I’ll happily read outside of the FAR 61.3 and use “real ID” if the FAA will have to...say...for starters; honor my 4th amendment RIGHTS, have probable cause and get a warrant before they can do a ramp check, or be held to the 6th amendment and have to try me before a jury of my peers, while they are held the the burden of proof if they want to try to ever come after my ticket.

Until that point I’ll go by the FAR, not a millimeter more or less.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

The whole reason the real ID Act was drafted was because of 9/11. Are you guys that dense you can't see why they passed it? If there was any one thing it would apply to it would be a pilots certificate..... it's an anti terrorism Act.

Exactly.
If we could use any old drivers license, then some high school student could crash a 172 into the Bank of America Tower in Tampa, FL. Real-ID will prevent this sort of horror.

 

[Wheels]

Your non-compliant ID is invalid for any federal purpose.

On DHS’s FAQs about Real ID it specifically says that Real ID does not apply for applying for or receiving federal benefits. You state that a non compliant ID is invalid for any federal purpose. I guess you need to explain to DHS how to read the law.

 

[Clip4]

nope. You are wrong. Straight up. Learn to read law and how one law effects another. I've read the law, as written and codified, cover to cover, numerous times. Your non-compliant ID is invalid for any federal purpose. A pilots certificate is a federal action. It does not apply. Do you not see the irony in your arguements? The whole reason the real ID Act was drafted was because of 9/11. Are you guys that dense you can't see why they passed it? If there was any one thing it would apply to it would be a pilots certificate..... it's an anti terrorism Act. Gawd it's like pulling teeth......

Congress also passed a law in 2004 ordering the FAA to have photographs on pilot certificates. Does yours have a photo? Then you better stay on the ground.

 

[Unit74]

Utopia is a wonderful place to live, isn't it? When you guys come back to the real world, lemme know, em kay....... Pretty obvious none of you have any idea how any of this works. I've tried to wright the ship, but sometimes it needs to take on more water before the captain realizes it time to abandon ship. Full speed ahead boys!

 

[wsuffa]

Just remember that ther overzealous inspectors, police, and Federal law enforcement folks. Most of them are fine and reasonable, but there are a few.... We need only look at Bob Hoover or the Q-tip prop situations.

 

[James331]

Just remember that ther overzealous inspectors, police, and Federal law enforcement folks. Most of them are fine and reasonable, but there are a few.... We need only look at Bob Hoover or the Q-tip prop situations.

That’s why you need to have a good lawyers number in your phone and the government on your risk matrix

Also if the average citizen pursued complaint and lawsuits when these overreaches occurred and held the person/department to the fire, we’d get much less overreach.

Utopia is a wonderful place to live, isn't it? When you guys come back to the real world, lemme know, em kay....... Pretty obvious none of you have any idea how any of this works. I've tried to wright the ship, but sometimes it needs to take on more water before the captain realizes it time to abandon ship. Full speed ahead boys!

I’ve been ramped a couple times, before I had my passport card, shown my normal DL and no fed ever said anything, mainly because based on their own text they can’t.

If you want to talk what law/reg trumps what, the constitution is the top of the stack, and the FAA bypasses many of our most closely held rights in the FAR, if the FAR can trump our constitutional rights, you don’t have the precedence to say I need to read outside of 61.3 for what photo ID I need

 

[Clip4]

Utopia is a wonderful place to live, isn't it? When you guys come back to the real world, lemme know, em kay....... Pretty obvious none of you have any idea how any of this works. I've tried to wright the ship, but sometimes it needs to take on more water before the captain realizes it time to abandon ship. Full speed ahead boys!

You do realize one of the secondary forms of identification allowed for the Real ID is a Pilot’s license (issued by the US DOT Federal Aviation Administration)

Sound a little circular?

 

[Palmpilot]

If it’s important put it in the FAR, if it’s not important enough to put it in the FAR its not important enough for me to care about.

Overall you’re telling me our yuuuge government can’t be bothered to fire up a PC and type another few words into part 61.3?

I’ll follow the FAR, nothing more nothing less.

I mean if I can’t go outside the FAR to protect myself against the FAA, not even my constitutional RIGHTS apply to the FAAs “administrative law”, so it’s a two way street, ether I’m held to the FAR or not.

I’ll happily read outside of the FAR 61.3 and use “real ID” if the FAA will have to...say...for starters; honor my 4th amendment RIGHTS, have probable cause and get a warrant before they can do a ramp check, or be held to the 6th amendment and have to try me before a jury of my peers, while they are held the the burden of proof if they want to try to ever come after my ticket.

Until that point I’ll go by the FAR, not a millimeter more or less.

If the FAA demanded that you take a 44709 ride, would you tell them to pound sand because it's a statute, not a regulation?

I don't know whether he's right about what the statute says, but the argument that you can ignore a statute that isn't reflected in a regulation seems weak.

 

[James331]

If the FAA demanded that you take a 44709 ride, would you tell them to pound sand because it's a statute, not a regulation?

I don't know whether he's right about what the statute says, but the argument that you can ignore a statute that isn't reflected in a regulation seems weak.

Based on the 6th amendment I should be able to, but the FAR says otherwise.

Thus as I said, follow the FAR, nothing MORE, nothing LESS.

My ASA FAR on my phone and tablet auto updates, until 61.3 changes I will follow that text, otherwise bye Felicia.

 

[Clip4]

If the FAA demanded that you take a 44709 ride, would you tell them to pound sand because it's a statute, not a regulation?

I don't know whether he's right about what the statute says, but the argument that you can ignore a statute that isn't reflected in a regulation seems weak.

And you really think the FAA, Aopa, EAA, Avweb, and a whole host of other folks aren't going to advise you if you need this?

Before 61.3 is changed, if it is, there is be a notice in the Federal Register. Until then, the sky is not falling.

 

[azure]

Based on the 6th amendment I should be able to, but the FAR says otherwise.

Thus as I said, follow the FAR, nothing MORE, nothing LESS.

My ASA FAR on my phone and tablet auto updates, until 61.3 changes I will follow that text, otherwise bye Felicia.

Are you sure this isn't a moot point for you? The DHS site lists NY as one of the Real ID-compliant states, along with VT. I know that my Vermont DL, issued in 2016, is compliant.

 

[James331]

Are you sure this isn't a moot point for you? The DHS site lists NY as one of the Real ID-compliant states, along with VT. I know that my Vermont DL, issued in 2016, is compliant.

I don’t pay into scams, hence I don’t buy NYs IDs or any of their other products, I travel enough that I don’t have to, and I constantly look for more ways to keep my money outside of NYs government while trying to put money into the community, tipping 0 and paying cash for the tip is just one example.

 

[Palmpilot]

Based on the 6th amendment I should be able to, but the FAR says otherwise.

Thus as I said, follow the FAR, nothing MORE, nothing LESS.

My ASA FAR on my phone and tablet auto updates, until 61.3 changes I will follow that text, otherwise bye Felicia.

I share your dissatisfaction with the FAA's poor understanding of the Constitution, and if you decide to spend the time and money to fight them on it, I will happily cheer you on while keeping my popcorn supply well stocked.

 

[Palmpilot]

And you really think the FAA, Aopa, EAA, Avweb, and a whole host of other folks aren't going to advise you if you need this?

No, I don't think that. I certainly HOPE they would.

Before 61.3 is changed, if it is, there is be a notice in the Federal Register. Until then, the sky is not falling.

I haven't read the statute, so I can't comment on that.

 

[James331]

I share your dissatisfaction with the FAA's poor understanding of the Constitution, and if you decide to spend the time and money to fight them on it, I will happily cheer you on while keeping my popcorn supply well stocked.

If I become a millionaire (which I’m always working towards ), I’ll happly take it to the mat with them in every overstep, heck I’d hire a few lawyers to do nothing but push back on anti constitutional violations in government

But I’m not quite there yet