Ditch my current career to fly??

Irish_Armada

Irish_Armada

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Irish Armada
Okay, if a similar thread is posted elsewhere, I apologize in advance. I'm a 30 year old, low-time student pilot. Always loved flying and/or the thought of flying since I was a lad, but never had the means to fly until recently. I now realize how passionate I am about it, and how superior it seems to the other parts of my life. Let me explain.

I've followed a "not unusual" career path for folks stuck on the ground. I have a very decent salary, 7-8 years work experience, but at the end of the day, it's still a suit&tie job like any other. I'm also finishing up night school for a professional vocation, done next year. Thus, I have options, and a decent amount of debt. However, I can already see the next 30 years of my life play itself out, and too much of it is on the ground. Fifty to sixty hours a week of 0 AGL work, providing an income that will make pleasure flying possible, but that will consume so much of my limited time that it will be potentially impractical. Which begs the question: what is the point of working hard and making money, when at the end of the day you don't have the time you want to dedicate to flying?

So I've been thinking pretty seriously about what I still consider to be a crazy option, but what the heck: what if I just abandoned my current career and tried to make a living as a pilot??? Why not? I don't owe anything to anyone in my current career path (other than the bank :)); the idea of flying for a living over run-of-the-mill desk/suit/office work is so incomparable that it's not even funny; I frankly can't stop thinking about how work gets in the way of my passion, but due to my current situation, I can't have one without the other. So ultimately, I'm stuck in a catch-22 ..... unless I make flying my income.

I'm also not ignorant about the pros and cons of a pilot career. I know I'd need to build some serious hours somehow, and that CFI work is the most common way of doing that. That sounds awesome to me -- ideally I'd be able to also work part time doing something using my current experience to supplement my income while building those key hours. The part that worries me in the pilot-career world though is that I'm not excited about a job that would mean I need to be gone from my family 18 out of 30 days per month, even as much as I love flying. So I guess that means that if there's a possibility for me to make a living flying, either for charter or corporate or local airline or on my own (my own charter company??), or something else, then I think I'd be all in, and this current career would be in my rear-view mirror. I'm excited even thinking about that possibility.

Anyone have past experience with this? Someone wish they went one path rather than another? Please talk me off the ledge or push me over. Thanks in advance for any feedback.
 
Sorry. I'm afraid I'm going to have a downer effect on this thread if I post my opinion, and I'm not even a professional pilot! But you talk about being in debt BEFORE you even try for the commercial and beyond?:hairraise:
My advice, which is worth every penny you paid for it, is continue to enjoy aviation as an avocation, and find a way to pay off your debt with your vocation. You don't say anything about family, but they would fit into the equation as well, both positively and negatively.
 
Irish, from a corporate pilot nearing retirement please listen to the above two posts. If you are a low time private pilot it will take many thousands of dollars to reach a point where you could COMPETE for a job that pays minimum wage with no benefits. On top of that, you want to fly for a living but don't want to be away from your family, really?:rofl:
Just start poking yourself with a sharp stick until the pain takes your mind off of this. Also the sharp stick will be less painful, really.
 
I would suggest keeping aviation as a hobby. Too many negatives to your situation to dump your current path and head down the path of little income.
 
Popcorn-03-Scarlett-Johanssen.gif
 
The good news is that if you are arrested for any serious offense in the near future, you can use your OP as evidence of temporary insanity.

Q. What did the FO say to the flight attendant immediately after the Captain with whom he had been flying for 10 years died of a heart attack during a flight?

A. Come up here and help me get this dead sumbitch out of my seat.
 
+1 To all of the above. Get rid of debt, then get more by buying an airplane. :)

Another option is to work towards having more time/days off in the future. Still fly for fun or continue to get your ratings. Get to a point where you have your mon-fri job, and work as a cfi on the weekends/nights. A lot of people do that.

Then when you have hours you can look at the options for switching career paths. This way, you dont abandon your current job and are left with tons of debt, no normal job AND no flying job.

If thats not really an option, just save up and buy an airplane. Fly for fun.

Even a flying job gets old after a while. It has its moments of being cool but after some years its like many other jobs. I fly a lear for a living, but sitting in a cockpit looking at a slow moving world for hours on end isnt exactly my idea of "fun flying". So i bought an ultralight, which was super fun. Flew for a year and sold to use as a downpayment on another little taildragger.
 
Well there ya go. Quit your job, fly fly fly, get your CMEI, get your CFI, CFII, CFMEI, an ATP, find a niche market that isn't being served now, buy between 3 and 50 airplanes, hire a bunch of pilots and mechanics, get an air carrier certificate, get your opspecs approved, get an SMS program, and then just sit back and enjoy the sweet life.
 
All I can offer is second hand observations on the subject.

In my first carrier as an A&P, when the airline closed, I worked at a repair station on a project to maintain commuter aircraft for a local feeder airline (Pan Am Express) at about 1/2 of my former wages.

Even at wages low for an A&P, I believe I made more money than many of the pilots. They were flying there for almost nothing to build seniority on Pan Am's seniority list.

There were two pilots that stayed in an RV - Camper in the gravel parking lot outside the hangar while they were flying. They jump seated home to be with their families after the wrapped up their monthly hours.

I eventually sold a house to return to school full time. When the money ran short, I part timed (as an A&P) at another very small airline (Gulfstream International) that flew out of Miami. They flew 402s, Beech 99's and 1900's out to the islands.

The way they operated, a co-pilot was optional (at least for some flights). The way I understand it, Pilots hoping to gain co-pilot hours used to work in the hangar sweeping the floors and as stock clerks, to pay for their flight time, if the aircraft wasn't weight limited.

I think this article sums up what I believe to be true.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/nyregion/17pilot.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

Good luck with what ever you do.

There are no guide books in life that just lay it out for us. That is, if you want to get to point A, all you gotta do is X, Y, Z. There is a lot of marketing that sounds like that though!
 
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lr60plt said:
Another option is to work towards having more time/days off in the future. Still fly for fun or continue to get your ratings. Get to a point where you have your mon-fri job, and work as a cfi on the weekends/nights. A lot of people do that.

Then when you have hours you can look at the options for switching career paths. This way, you dont abandon your current job and are left with tons of debt, no normal job AND no flying job.
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I would go with this advice. In your case I think the toe-in-the-water approach is much better than jumping right in. Being 30 the OP has time to do that. Like others have said, flying for a living is probably not quite what people fantasize about when they are dreaming about it. Its can be an OK job but it's still a job. Take it slow enough that you don't incur any more debt and keep your eyes, ears, and mind open.
 
In addition to all of the above, take a careful inventory of what you like about "flying." I was very lucky early in life to have an opportunity to fly heavies in an Air Force mission that was close to airline flying. I was cured. I hated the flying and mostly found it excruciatingly boring BORING. Other pilots loved the flying. Make sure you know what makes you happy.
 
+1. The things that many people like, such as the freedom to "free the surly bonds of earth and soar above the clouds" is often reduced to "it's hard to soar with the eagles when you're forced to spend so much time picking shlt with the chickens."

As a kid I really enjoyed driving grand-dad's tractor, so when C. R. Barham offered a summer job plowing his wheat ground in the OK panhandle, I took it without carefully considering that driving a big Case from dawn to dark in all kind of weather while pulling a one-way plow was a lot different than driving Grand-dad's Ford around the home place and occasionally cultivating a few acres of garden or cotton.

ebetancourt said:
In addition to all of the above, take a careful inventory of what you like about "flying." I was very lucky early in life to have an opportunity to fly heavies in an Air Force mission that was close to airline flying. I was cured. I hated the flying and mostly found it excruciatingly boring BORING. Other pilots loved the flying. Make sure you know what makes you happy.
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LearDriver said:
Keep your career path. Fly for personal enjoyment on the side. Otherwise you will for sure kill something you love. After a while flying will become just a job too.
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I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true.
 
I work full time in IT/software and instruct about 400 hours per year. It can be done.
 
jesse said:
I work full time in IT/software and instruct about 400 hours per year. It can be done.
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Thanks everybody for your replies -- very helpful. Jesse: does that mean you mostly instruct on the weekends with the occasional mid-week evening flight? Instructing sounds like a great way to build hours, stay near home, and become more proficient, all without paying for it...

Also, I'm curious whether the perceived pilot shortage is going to change any of these negative dynamics in terms of what it takes for a pilot to get to a place where he's/she's making a decent living. Or are the airlines operating so close to the margins that this is a pipe dream?
 
Inverted said:
I can tell you from personal experience that this is not true.
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Then you are one of the very few. Once you take it to a professional level it becomes all about risk management all the time. It is enjoyable but not just pure fun. Pilots that fly for purely recreational purposes get to do just for pure fun and enjoyment. There is a big difference.
 
I took a similar approach, although instead of instructing, I do part time charter flights for a 135 company. Seeing how the economy hits a charter and instruction company, I was very happy to have a full time job that continues to pay the bills when the charters are down. I have the ability to take off at a moments, so it may be easier for me. Have a good friend who is an FO for one of the majors. His life is constantly changing, up and down.
 
Yup, when you fly for a living all of a sudden you have to go. Obviously if it's not safe we don't go...but there are plenty of times I wake up in some dreary town with drizzle or blowing snow and I'd just assume roll over and go back to bed.

But I can't. I dress up, slap on a smile and 'make the magic' happen. Don't get me wrong. I love my job and can't imagine doing anything else. But there is a difference between flying yourself for fun and flying for a living. From an enjoyment perspective the former blows the later away.

From a money in verses money out perspective it's visa versa.
 
LearDriver said:
Pilots that fly for purely recreational purposes get to do just for pure fun and enjoyment. There is a big difference.
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Reading about people's struggles with learning, maintenance, affordability, etc. makes me think that even recreational flying is not "pure fun" all the time. People seem to suffer for their sport. :)

It is true that you need to approach a job differently but unless you have enough money that you don't need to work you're going to be dealing with job issues in one form or another whether it's in aviation or not.
 
I took a step much like you are facing, but a few years earlier. I was not married, and had little debt. But I loved to fly. It consumed almost all of my waking moments. I went the Officer Candidate School route with the Coast Guard. It was not easy. but I got Flight School and some of the most challenging and rewarding work on the planet. I agree with those here who say trying to pay your way into a career is practically financial suicide. If you have separation issues with your family situation, and considerable debt already, keep digging where you are and enjoy flying when you can.
 
LearDriver said:
Once you take it to a professional level it becomes all about risk management all the time. It is enjoyable but not just pure fun. Pilots that fly for purely recreational purposes get to do just for pure fun and enjoyment. There is a big difference.
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Captain said:
Yup, when you fly for a living all of a sudden you have to go. Obviously if it's not safe we don't go...but there are plenty of times I wake up in some dreary town with drizzle or blowing snow and I'd just assume roll over and go back to bed.

But I can't. I dress up, slap on a smile and 'make the magic' happen. Don't get me wrong. I love my job and can't imagine doing anything else. But there is a difference between flying yourself for fun and flying for a living. From an enjoyment perspective the former blows the later away.

From a money in verses money out perspective it's visa versa.
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Why can't it be both? I fly for a living and it is a job. A fun job, but a job. I also fly for fun and recreation. And that is the pure fun part of it.
 
Irish_Armada said:
Okay, if a similar thread is posted elsewhere, I apologize in advance. I'm a 30 year old, low-time student pilot. Always loved flying and/or the thought of flying since I was a lad, but never had the means to fly until recently.
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I'm in basically the same situation as you. I'd say just build up your ratings till you're a CFI and see where things take you. That's what I'm doing.

Check out this website: http://oddballpilot.com/
 
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I dunno. I don't see anything that "odd" about any of the flying jobs posted on that site. (???)
 
Irish_Armada said:
Thanks everybody for your replies -- very helpful. Jesse: does that mean you mostly instruct on the weekends with the occasional mid-week evening flight? Instructing sounds like a great way to build hours, stay near home, and become more proficient, all without paying for it...

Also, I'm curious whether the perceived pilot shortage is going to change any of these negative dynamics in terms of what it takes for a pilot to get to a place where he's/she's making a decent living. Or are the airlines operating so close to the margins that this is a pipe dream?
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I tell my students the following, I am available:

Weekdays-
For early morning lessons starting at 7:30
Evening lessons starting at 5:30. We can get two in one evening in.

Weekends-
All weekend

If I really need to - I'll take a day or two off work if that's what it takes to finish a student up. I've been known to log 40 hours of flying and 40 hours of working in a week.
 
Yeah, but every league has only enough room for a few superstars.

Greg Bockelman said:
Why can't it be both? I fly for a living and it is a job. A fun job, but a job. I also fly for fun and recreation. And that is the pure fun part of it.
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wabower said:
Yeah, but every league has only enough room for a few superstars.
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I agree wholeheartedly, but you can't make it to the yankees if you don't pick up a baseball and try.


The OP is talking about taking a path that will completely change his life. His concern about being gone a lot is a valid one. If he can't handle the idea of being gone a lot, at least in the beginning, he probably will not enjoy the career.
 
Very interesting discussion.

I'd always considered doing the same thing the OP is talking about doing. The only difference between my situation and his is; I have quite a bit of time and ratings under my belt already. Like the OP, I'm 30, and I absolutely love flying. I often find myself day-dreaming about being in the air. After many years of thinking about it however, I decided it would be a terrible idea to make such a drastic career shift - for the following reasons.

First of all, with a wife and 2 young children, a traveling career is pretty much out of the question. My kids are my #1 priority right now, and I'm blessed to be part of their lives every single day.

Second, my "9-to-5" job as an engineer brings in about 3-4 times what I'd be making as a new FO at any regional airline. We are living a pretty comfy middle-class lifestyle right now, and I need my income to remain at the level it's at to maintain that lifestyle.

Third, I can afford to fly for fun from time to time. No, I don't fly as often as I'd like, and no, I don't fly what most would consider "cool" airplanes. It's also getting more and more expensive as gas prices continue to climb. But flying is still flying, and it beats the heck out of anything else.

My dream at this point is to run into some rich guy with an airplane and no pilot, and that only travels on the weekends (rich guys with airplanes in the Charleston SC area, I'm available :D). It would also be cool to weasel my way into a charter operation that might require my skills on the weekends. I understand that these are unlikely scenarios for someone like me, but heck, a guy can dream.
 
Ya know what might be a pretty sweet gig, is being a DPE. Does anyone know how to become a DPE.

I'm considering a career in aviation but I'm going to keep working and flying in my spare time... i'd like to get my CFI and instruct on weekends etc, then go from there. Not a chop and drop into debt like the OP is considering... Also I am young and don't plan on having to support a family anytime soon, knock on wood
 
It may be worthwhile to note that many people have gone into aviation as a second career or oscillated back and forth between aviation and non-aviation careers. One that comes to mind is 'aterpster' who occasionally posts here. Iirc, he is an accountant by trade and was in and out of the airline industry for some cycles after the war until he managed to establish himself during one of the 'up' cycles. And Wayne, didn't you do banking/investments for the longest time until aviation became the bread-job ?

So outside of military aviation, which has hard age cutoffs, I dont see any urgency in abandoning an established career. Unless of course you absolutely hate what you are doing right now. Collect your ratings, collect hours, maybe the opportunity comes around to switch fields one day.
 
Yeah, but I started flying big airplanes almost by accident, and won the lottery insofar as starting close to the top and moving up the chain on the GA side. In my case, the flying gigs were always a sideline to help further the acquisition consulting business. People seem to think that knowing how to fly big airplanes is synonymous with knowing how to manage the acquisition process. They are totally separate skill-sets but like a gentleman I refrained from correcting prospective clients' lack of knowledge on the subject.

I think that anybody considering aviation as a career must carefully consider the macro definition of "career" including all of the down-stream issues that are more important at all of the ages that end in 8 rather than just 18 or 28.

If the "golden age of flying airplanes for a living" was ever a reality, I think it occurred at least 30 years ago, and can't find any comfort in the projections of future opportunities. I could have secured an airline job in the early 60's, when things were as good as they ever got insofar as making seniority was concerned, but even then it was a crap-shoot and none of my contemporaries who did it ended up with stable careers or any significant net worth at the end of their days in the cockpit.







weilke said:
It may be worthwhile to note that many people have gone into aviation as a second career or oscillated back and forth between aviation and non-aviation careers. One that comes to mind is 'aterpster' who occasionally posts here. Iirc, he is an accountant by trade and was in and out of the airline industry for some cycles after the war until he managed to establish himself during one of the 'up' cycles. And Wayne, didn't you do banking/investments for the longest time until aviation became the bread-job ?

So outside of military aviation, which has hard age cutoffs, I dont see any urgency in abandoning an established career. Unless of course you absolutely hate what you are doing right now. Collect your ratings, collect hours, maybe the opportunity comes around to switch fields one day.
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Nope, on the couch waiting for the Mavs-Nuggets game. And you?

But you're right, down deep inside I'm just another 30-something year old guy trying to figure out what the hell happened.

Art VanDelay said:
EARLY 60s ! Dang....that would make you, what's the phrase I'm looking for - really OLD !!!! Are you on oxygen right now ? :D
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