Discussions with my dad: what plane would work?

farmerbrake

farmerbrake

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farmerbrake
Since dad and I have been stuck in the milking parlor together a lot lately we've run out of things to discuss, so we start talking about planes and how fun it would be to get a grass strip on the farm, we have a great place where we can get 2,000 ft. Easy. I'm the first person in my family to get involved in aviation (instrument pilot, working on my commercial. Have partnership in an arrow right now).
We've just been dreaming lately and I was wondering what plane would fit this theoretical mission:
2 or 4 seat plane that dad and my brother could train in
Easily can get into/out of 2000 ft grass strip (even less would be preffered)
Purchase price below 50,000. Right around 20-30 would be ideal.
Nothing too maintenence unique.
Primary mission would be initial training and local sightseeing flights, not very many passengers.

This would just be a plane to get the dream going. After we flew it for a few years we'd see if we would want anything bigger/faster and go from there.
Like I said, this was just dad and I spit balling some ideas early in the morning. Any input is welcome!
 
Mason said:
I took the 182 into 2000 feet of grass all the time.
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can u get a 182 for under 50k? I don't know, just asking.

seems like you should be able to get a decent cherokee 140/160 for well within your price range (closer to the 30k than the 50k range). good trainers, straight forward maintenance, and should be able to get into 2k' grass. there's a local bbq joint where I personally haven't flown to but lots of people go on a regular basis in cherokees and a 172. it's 2300'.
 
One like this?
fly-cow5.jpg
 
James331 said:
Stinson 108
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I second this. I have a bddy that got is IR in a Stinson. Great plane if you dont need to haul tons of stuff. Stable and easy to fly and land. I'd also reccommend a Cessna 170 or 172. Alternatively a Citabria would be very good for that mission too.
 
Always been able to fill all four seats and still have decent fuel in my old -1
 
I guess I should have added tailwheel would be fun to do.
 
A dairy farmer near me started an airport 40 years ago exactly under your circumstances. He bought an 85 champ in very nice shape and made 2000 feet of nice grass, mowed it with a John Deere and a woods. He flew it for a couple of years and then an ex navy pilot showed up and gave lessons in it. He also built a small hangar for the champ immed. After buying it and this grew eventually to thirty hangared aircraft and paving the grass runway. A very nice 85 champ today is about thirty grand. Back then it was around two grand. A lot depends on the obstacles at either end of your runway. A Cherokee 140 would be my last choice. This farmer went on to sell cessnas , and was very talented at building hangars. (W42)
 
Jimmy cooper said:
A dairy farmer near me started an airport 40 years ago exactly under your circumstances. He bought an 85 champ in very nice shape and made 2000 feet of nice grass, mowed it with a John Deere and a woods. He flew it for a couple of years and then an ex navy pilot showed up and gave lessons in it. He also built a small hangar for the champ immed. After buying it and this grew eventually to thirty hangared aircraft and paving the grass runway. A very nice 85 champ today is about thirty grand. Back then it was around two grand. A lot depends on the obstacles at either end of your runway. A Cherokee 140 would be my last choice. This farmer went on to sell cessnas , and was very talented at building hangars. (W42)
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I like the sound of that!
 
Shop for a Maule. That would fit the bill nicely.
 
What are the thoughts on the Cessna 140 or 170 serries? Are they underpowered?
 
farmerbrake said:
What are the thoughts on the Cessna 140 or 170 serries? Are they underpowered?
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Yes they are both underpowered. The 140 in summer with decent amount of fuel and two people is a real dog. The 170 not much better especially with four pass.
 
Depending on the true mission - most 4 place aircraft are 3 place useful load but rarely do you find 3 people that want to fly - we had a 1500' grass strip behind the barn and a Lark (Aero Commander's version of a 172) and later a Musketeer. Both worked great. Strip was one-way, but there were no obstacles at the end to clear either.

Hundreds of good aircraft fit the budget - in a Trike I'd look for a 180 hp. If you _really_ think a taildragger will be the right aircraft to train your dad and brother in, and flights are primary training and sightseeing, buy a Champ or J3 Cub. If the plane needs to go places (cruise speed) and train, then a 172/Cherokee/Musketeer/Sundowner/Archer/Grumman Tiger-Cheetah/etc are good options. If you want the cruise and taildragger, a 170 is a real good airplane, and the side-by-side is nice. Make sure you can find a CFI that will train in the taildragger. :)
 
I grew up on and learned to fly from a 2000' grass strip at 262' MSL. At one time, dad had a Stinson SM-6000 Trimotor, Stinson SM-8A, a Cessna 170B, J-3 Cub and two Pitts S-1Cs in addition to his ag planes, two Piper 150hp Pawnees. We flew them all from that 2000' strip. On hot and humid days we were still able to fly in and out because both ends were wide open. I can remember a few occasions where he flew the Trimotor Stinson out loaded with people and camping gear to go to Antique Airplane Association Fly-In in Ottumwa and EAA in Rockford (which tells you how long ago this was).
 
A Cherokee 140 on grass? Need a lot more than 2000 feet. 172 is OK but they'll crack the bottom end of the aft doorposts on rough surfaces. Trikes generally beat up their propellers on anything but hard surfaces. I'd look at a Maule for four seats, Citabria or Scout for two.
 
Just because a strip is grass doesn't automatically mean it is rough (or soft). Our old grass strip was pretty smooth. He had a friend base his 172G there for many years, flying frequently, without problem.
 
I have been flying a 1952 Cessna 170B for basically my entire life; the last 30 years. I love the airplane more than anything else in the world, and I am very biased towards the model, but it could stand more power. I've flown a couple other 170Bs with larger engines - one with a 220 Franklin in Arizona, and the other a Continental IO-360 (210hp) in Illinois. Both are phenomenal performers, but both are quite a bit heavier than the stock airframe...not totally attributed to engine conversion.

I live in NC and I constitute almost two whole FAA adults myself, and I can still manage to fit two other reasonably-sized adults in the airplane with full tanks and get in and out of a 2500-foot airport in the summer, legally and comfortably (with respect to space in the airplane...hot days have lackluster climb performance). I've flown Stinsons and Maules (as well as Pacers) and I would pick the 170 every time. The Maule M4-220C is no kidding, a rocket, and the Stinson has lovely soft gear and can carry load, but the 170 is easier to get in and out of and see out of than either of the other airplanes, and I prefer the all-metal construction of the 170...minus the 1948. Maules have metal wings and some Stinsons have been metalized but neither are exactly the same as an original design.

If you're not married to a taildragger, a straight tail 172 is a phenomenal option as well. My father's first airplane was a 1958 Cessna 172, so I've got a huge soft spot for them as well.
 
Ryan Smith said:
I have been flying a 1952 Cessna 170B for basically my entire life; the last 30 years. I love the airplane more than anything else in the world, and I am very biased towards the model, but it could stand more power. I've flown a couple other 170Bs with larger engines - one with a 220 Franklin in Arizona, and the other a Continental IO-360 (210hp) in Illinois. Both are phenomenal performers, but both are quite a bit heavier than the stock airframe...not totally attributed to engine conversion.

I live in NC and I constitute almost two whole FAA adults myself, and I can still manage to fit two other reasonably-sized adults in the airplane with full tanks and get in and out of a 2500-foot airport in the summer, legally and comfortably (with respect to space in the airplane...hot days have lackluster climb performance). I've flown Stinsons and Maules (as well as Pacers) and I would pick the 170 every time. The Maule M4-220C is no kidding, a rocket, and the Stinson has lovely soft gear and can carry load, but the 170 is easier to get in and out of and see out of than either of the other airplanes, and I prefer the all-metal construction of the 170...minus the 1948. Maules have metal wings and some Stinsons have been metalized but neither are exactly the same as an original design.

If you're not married to a taildragger, a straight tail 172 is a phenomenal option as well. My father's first airplane was a 1958 Cessna 172, so I've got a huge soft spot for them as well.
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Welcome to POA, and thanks for sharing your experience!.
 
James331 said:
Stinson 108
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+1 on that. I've owned a 108-2 since 1990. Back then, I flew it in and out of Moore's Farm Airport in Dummerston, VT, which had a 1,800' turf runway.

Univair has the TC, parts support isn't an issue for the airframe. I've not had an issue with engine parts yet (knock wood).
 
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I didn't notice the field elevation, but assuming you're not too high just about any single engine should easily operate out of a 2000' field.

On a side note and somewhat realted, I used to regularly fly a fully loaded Beaver and C-185 in to a 600' river bed strip, which was cut at both ends by the river. That was a fun job.
 
SToL said:
On a side note and somewhat realted, I used to regularly fly a fully loaded Beaver and C-185 in to a 600' river bed strip, which was cut at both ends by the river. That was a fun job.
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Whoa whoa whoa back the truck up. Thread hijack time. You may be my hero. How's the beaver fly in comparison with the 185?
 
Dan Thomas said:
A Cherokee 140 on grass? Need a lot more than 2000 feet. 172 is OK but they'll crack the bottom end of the aft doorposts on rough surfaces. Trikes generally beat up their propellers on anything but hard surfaces. I'd look at a Maule for four seats, Citabria or Scout for two.
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I dont know what 140 you have been flying but mine is quite happy with 2000 feet even on a hot day. Do it a lot a no problems. I would reccomend a 180 to carry more people.
 
SToL said:
I didn't notice the field elevation, but assuming you're not too high just about any single engine should easily operate out of a 2000' field.

On a side note and somewhat realted, I used to regularly fly a fully loaded Beaver and C-185 in to a 600' river bed strip, which was cut at both ends by the river. That was a fun job.
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Sit right around 700-800 msl. So very low.
There's a 172 that just popped up for sale at the airport for 15,000.... it looks very tempting. If only I had our runway built and we're finished with my commercial/cfi/cfii.
 
4 Place: Tripacer, Pacer, Maule
2 Place: Colt, Champ, Chief, T-Craft, J3, J5
 
Was sitting at the aiport last night just relaxing and reading the instructors manual from the faa and (what I think was) a husky was doing some work in the patter. I think he might have been off the ground and at least 50 agl in less than 500 feet. Maybe that's just me exagerating? Any husky pilots here?
 
farmerbrake said:
Was sitting at the aiport last night just relaxing and reading the instructors manual from the faa and (what I think was) a husky was doing some work in the patter. I think he might have been off the ground and at least 50 agl in less than 500 feet. Maybe that's just me exagerating? Any husky pilots here?
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Not a Husky pilot but a SportCub/Carbon Cub/FX Cub pilot... That's pretty reasonable. I've departed off of intersections with less than 200 feet remaining, didnt use 75% of it. (Tower sure was a little hesitant).
 
farmerbrake said:
Since dad and I have been stuck in the milking parlor together a lot lately we've run out of things to discuss, so we start talking about planes and how fun it would be to get a grass strip on the farm, we have a great place where we can get 2,000 ft. Easy. I'm the first person in my family to get involved in aviation (instrument pilot, working on my commercial. Have partnership in an arrow right now).
We've just been dreaming lately and I was wondering what plane would fit this theoretical mission:
2 or 4 seat plane that dad and my brother could train in
Easily can get into/out of 2000 ft grass strip (even less would be preffered)
Purchase price below 50,000. Right around 20-30 would be ideal.
Nothing too maintenence unique.
Primary mission would be initial training and local sightseeing flights, not very many passengers.

This would just be a plane to get the dream going. After we flew it for a few years we'd see if we would want anything bigger/faster and go from there.
Like I said, this was just dad and I spit balling some ideas early in the morning. Any input is welcome!
Click to expand...
+++++++++++++++
Greetings,
First posting.
More important than the length perhaps are the approaches and obstacles at the ends. I used to fly a Cherokee 180 PA-28 into ME08 (Gaddabout Gaddis Airport, Bingham Maine) frequently, and the approach to the north required flying down a "chute" of treetops. Did it with plenty to spare. Takeoffs on the otherhand required committing to takeoff or landing in the river, since the point of rotation was beyond the point of being able to brake and stop on the field. It was always a high pucker factor takeoff, but never had a problem with the great Mattituck Chrome Majored engine.

I just bought my second (consecutive not concurrent) PA-22, and look forward to many happy hours in it.

Best Wishes
Bob
 
SToL said:
The Beaver flies just like a big ole Super Cub. Very docil, lot of power and a blast. The 185, well it flies more like a... 185.
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Well I'm intrigued, what engine on the 185? Wing X? Robertson?
 
James331 said:
Well I'm intrigued, what engine on the 185? Wing X? Robertson?
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Don't get me wrong, I do love the 185, it just doesn't compare to a Beaver. I've flown many, in both the IO 470 and 520 variants. Some had the Robertson SToL kit one was Wing X and a couple were even turbo charged.

One day when I grow up, I'll probably own one.

PJ
 
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