Dirty spins

Danos

Danos

Line Up and Wait
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i And I Survive
If a plane spins in landing configuration, should the flaps be retracted while recovering or after? I would imagine that there would be a good chance of overspeed and possibly tearing them off. On the other hand, if they were retraced the change in the wing shape might make stall recovery more difficult and require more forward pressure causing more altitude loss.
 
Danos said:
If a plane spins in landing configuration, should the flaps be retracted while recovering or after? I would imagine that there would be a good chance of overspeed and possibly tearing them off. On the other hand, if they were retraced the change in the wing shape might make stall recovery more difficult and require more forward pressure causing more altitude loss.
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Stop the rotation ASAP, that's the first thing, roation is what gets you flat. Properly recovered, you shouldn't overspeed the flaps.
 
Danos said:
On the other hand, if they were retraced the change in the wing shape might make stall recovery more difficult and require more forward pressure causing more altitude loss.
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Pushing forward on the stick/yoke does what to the angle of attack? Retracting flaps does what to the angle of attack?

I'd stand on the rudder first, pull power second, retract flaps third.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Pushing forward on the stick/yoke does what to the angle of attack? Retracting flaps does what to the angle of attack?

I'd stand on the rudder first, pull power second, retract flaps third.
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They both reduce the angle of attack but retracting also increases the stall speed. Wouldn't you pull the power first to get rid of torque? Correct me if I'm wrong. My spin training consists of failed attempts to get more than 2 rotations out of a 172. I'm thinking more along the lines of a much more unstable airplane.

Congrats on the Multi Rating!!
 
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Since you're not likely to be in the landing configuration at an altitude high enough to recover from a spin, it's not likely to be an issue. That's why the FAA is so hard-over on teaching spin prevention rather than spin recovery -- spins in the traffic pattern are generally fatal no matter how good the pilot is at spin recovery.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you're not likely to be in the landing configuration at an altitude high enough to recover from a spin, it's not likely to be an issue. That's why the FAA is so hard-over on teaching spin prevention rather than spin recovery -- spins in the traffic pattern are generally fatal no matter how good the pilot is at spin recovery.
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I don't agree completely with that. For a person who is indoctrinated in spins and recovery can stop before the wing gets a full tuck because their initial reaction will be to counter with rudder rather than aileron (which will exacerbate the problem and lead to death before the realize what happened). This is why I feel that all students should do spins and falling leaf maneuvers before solo.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you're not likely to be in the landing configuration at an altitude high enough to recover from a spin, it's not likely to be an issue. That's why the FAA is so hard-over on teaching spin prevention rather than spin recovery -- spins in the traffic pattern are generally fatal no matter how good the pilot is at spin recovery.
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Understood. This is purely hypothetical. By the way, I went into SBY the other night. Had to wake up the re-fueler. He wasn't happy to see us, but spoke very highly of you highly of you!
 
Henning said:
I don't agree completely with that. For a person who is indoctrinated in spins and recovery can stop before the wing gets a full tuck because their initial reaction will be to counter with rudder rather than aileron (which will exacerbate the problem and lead to death before the realize what happened).
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That's still spin prevention, not spin recovery, and you don't need to enter a full spin to learn that.
 
Ron Levy said:
That's still spin prevention, not spin recovery, and you don't need to enter a full spin to learn that.
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Well, considering a full spin is after 2 full turns, I agree. However, the first time you let a student tuck the wing under, you are going to do a turn or so before you take it over just for shock delay value. After 2 or three entries, the can catch it in the 90-120* state and recover in less than 75'. Thing is, in order to be fully versed in post tuck spin prevention, they have to practice letting it break, and letting it turn a couple of turns for full familiarization is a good thing as well. I like seeing 2 turns to a heading. After teaching and getting them familiar with spin recovery, you can then play with falling leafs and that is the best spin prevention training there is because they learn to catch it right at the break before the wing tucks. Let them ride the stall down a couple thousand feet 2 or 3 times till they're reasonably good at it. Now, if they have the other prereques, they're ready to solo.
 
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Ron Levy said:
Since you're not likely to be in the landing configuration at an altitude high enough to recover from a spin, it's not likely to be an issue. That's why the FAA is so hard-over on teaching spin prevention rather than spin recovery -- spins in the traffic pattern are generally fatal no matter how good the pilot is at spin recovery.
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Well it could in slow flight practice or stall recognition practice at altitude
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Pushing forward on the stick/yoke does what to the angle of attack? Retracting flaps does what to the angle of attack?

I'd stand on the rudder first, pull power second, retract flaps third.
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I don't even wait for sequencing the steps: Full rudder and power off simultaneously, then a hand is free for flap retraction. Planes Vne fast under full power & pointed down hard.

Ideally, safety is a total awareness picture: among other things, consisting of seamless recognition/prevention/recovery if needed.
 
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