Did no one see this coming?

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paflyer said:
To what? Hundreds of millions get to be poets or "artists" living off the remainder's sweat?
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Either that, or shoot them. You pick.

We used to be a society that only employed about half of its citizens. We survived.
 
deonb said:
Either that, or shoot them. You pick.

We used to be a society that only employed about half of its citizens. We survived.
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Pre- women's "liberation"?
 
Acrodustertoo said:
I like the second part but the first about all those "hard working" unemployed that cannot find a job is asinine! This country is full of useless lazy people who want to make 100K a year but not have to work for it. The kind that think getting 9/hr at a gas station is the best thing ever because they don't have to do much of anything. I see it all the time, my students graduate from college and then ***** and moan because they aren't getting starting jobs making 50+ and hour? no one wants to start at the bottom and earn their way up with hard work and constant learning.
I was trying to explain to our oldest boy the concept of supply and demand in the workforce. he mentioned that he wants to make big bucks with video games, reviewing them, playing them etc etc. he doesn't understand like a big chunk of our youth that there are millions and millions that want to do the same exact thing graduating high school every year, with that much of a worker supply, they will never have to pay you much of anything because if you don't like it they can have your seat filled before it gets cold.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I think there are people who behave as you describe, but I think there are millions that are unemployed or underemployed because of this economy. The federal government is one of the largest employer segments of in this country now, think about that. While some fed employees are absolutely necessary, and provide vital service, none of them produce anything. They make their living off other people's taxes. As far as the youth go, I know many kids who put the older generations to shame with work ethic and smarts. The problem now is the government, it is too big and it's shadow too dark.
 
As far as robots/automation taking over jobs, AI is reaching the point where it will be to perform accounting jobs at the CPA level, provide legal services and other type services. I think it will get real interesting when these machines start shipping.
 
roncachamp said:
Tax revenue is the product of the tax rate and tax base. Cutting the tax rates encouraged economic growth. The resultant larger tax base produced greater tax revenue after the tax cuts.
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At what tax rate does that stop being true? Taking your statement to its conclusion means that a 0% tax rate creates the most tax revenue.
 
ircphoenix said:
At what tax rate does that stop being true? Taking your statement to its conclusion means that a 0% tax rate creates the most tax revenue.
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The tax rate at which it is cheaper to pay it rather than pay legions of lawyers and accountants to find ways around it. And more importantly, a rate that makes moving out of the US unattractive.
 
orange said:
Depends on why they left. If they left due to high taxes, then lowering taxes would bring them back, all else being pretty equal.

But if they left to find cheap Asian labor, then lowering taxes unfortunately will not bring them back since nobody in the US will work for $0.20/hr. And that's the problem, IMO the majority of the firms left due to labor costs. There are no unions in Asia, and they can pay less than $1/hr and if somebody quits, their position is filled within minutes, whereas remedial labor in the US now wants $15/hr.
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Expenses like taxes, labor, shipping, etc are cumulative. If you reduce or increase any one of them, you reduce or increase the total (I know, I have been called "captain obvious" before). But the decision to ship jobs overseas looks a the total cost differential. When all of the expenses are lower, it is a no-brainer business decision to move jobs overseas. If you reduce any of the expenses (like taxes and transportation) the decision becomes harder. And none of the fortune 500 companies I worked for liked to make the hard decisions. We called it "analysis paralysis". They need a clear cut answer to make a move like that.
 
ircphoenix said:
At what tax rate does that stop being true? Taking your statement to its conclusion means that a 0% tax rate creates the most tax revenue.
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Taking an argument to its maximum extreme might work in mathematical proofs, but it NEVER works when predicting human reactions. So that argument you used is completely worthless, although your question "At what tax rate does that stop being true" is exactly the right question. It stops being true when the growth it prevents is greater than the revenue it generates. I feel we are past that point now.

Honestly, have you ever heard of anyone promoting a zero percent tax rate? If not, then why use it as an argument?
 
ircphoenix said:
At what tax rate does that stop being true? Taking your statement to its conclusion means that a 0% tax rate creates the most tax revenue.
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Tax revenue is the product of the tax rate and tax base. There is no tax rate where that is not true. With a tax rate of 0% there is no tax revenue. With a tax rate of 100% there will also be no tax revenue because there will be no tax base.
 
deonb said:
There isn't one. Not everybody will have a job in the future. Society will need to adapt.
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^^^ This ^^^

The next hundred years and the death of the puritanical notion of "nobility in work" will be an interesting transition as we need fewer and fewer humans to do the work.
 
172andyou said:
^^^ This ^^^

The next hundred years and the death of the puritanical notion of "nobility in work" will be an interesting transition as we need fewer and fewer humans to do the work.
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How does a place like the Middle East look when there's nothing for young males to do? How about our inner cities ?
 
paflyer said:
How does a place like the Middle East look when there's nothing for young males to do? How about our inner cities ?
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And our rural communities, which are arguably the leading edge of this transition, going through it as we speak and many of which have higher crime rates than inner cities. And suburbs. And. And. And.

Those are indeed the right questions. And pretending that working is the only morally acceptable answer to how one spends their 100 years on earth is a loser. That's just not how the world will be for much longer.
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Did no one see this coming?
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Someone trying to start another thread they knew would slide into the spin zone, and people responding to it in kind...
 
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