Diamond DA40 vs Cessna 172

flyingcheesehead said:
Huh? The nose doesn't even make it to the horizon. Not sure what you're talking about here. :dunno:
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Vy in a DA40 is 67 knots. Vx is 64. That requires a rather nose up attitude in a 180 HP airplane, which I really dislike and is not good for moving around fluid in your inner ear in IMC. Cruise is a different story, where the DA40 has a very nice, nose down attitude - very similar to a Tiger. The climb is completely different though.
 
N1120A said:
Vy in a DA40 is 67 knots. Vx is 64. That requires a rather nose up attitude in a 180 HP airplane, which I really dislike and is not good for moving around fluid in your inner ear in IMC. Cruise is a different story, where the DA40 has a very nice, nose down attitude - very similar to a Tiger. The climb is completely different though.
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I haven't always paid attention but I don't recall being in singles in which about 10 degrees nose up (give or take a few) on the AI isn't a typical initial climb suitable even for entering the clouds. The Go-Around flight director in a DA40XLS and in a 172 Nav III is set at 7 degrees. What those numbers look like in different airplanes and even in the same airplane to different people, is a separate issue.
 
N1120A said:
They just aren't as nice a ride as other options that are available for the same or less, and don't have great pattern dynamics IMHO.
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What are "pattern dynamics"? What specifically don't you like?

N1120A said:
Vy in a DA40 is 67 knots. Vx is 64. That requires a rather nose up attitude in a 180 HP airplane, which I really dislike and is not good for moving around fluid in your inner ear in IMC. Cruise is a different story, where the DA40 has a very nice, nose down attitude - very similar to a Tiger. The climb is completely different though.
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This might be somewhat technique-dependent. In the DA40, you should be taking off with a notch of flaps. The sensation I always got at liftoff in the DA40 was that the ground was falling away from me and that I was in an elevator going straight up. That comes from the relatively nose-*down* attitude compared to your average metal bird in the climb, as long as the flaps are down.

Now, when you retract the flaps, you have to raise the nose to compensate, if you're going to keep the same climb airspeed. But, you can also accelerate to, say, 90 knots and keep close to the same climb rate and have your nose down.

Once you're out of the "trainer" class of airplanes, Vy isn't really used above pattern altitude IME. There's generally a faster cruise climb speed that's more appropriate as it gives up very little climb rate but allows for better visibility (which isn't a problem in the DA40 with its low cowl anyway), better engine cooling, and gets you where you're going faster. While the DA40 makes an OK trainer, it's really into the next class above IMO, and you'd probably like it more if flown accordingly.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What are "pattern dynamics"? What specifically don't you like?



This might be somewhat technique-dependent. In the DA40, you should be taking off with a notch of flaps. The sensation I always got at liftoff in the DA40 was that the ground was falling away from me and that I was in an elevator going straight up. That comes from the relatively nose-*down* attitude compared to your average metal bird in the climb, as long as the flaps are down.

Now, when you retract the flaps, you have to raise the nose to compensate, if you're going to keep the same climb airspeed. But, you can also accelerate to, say, 90 knots and keep close to the same climb rate and have your nose down.

Once you're out of the "trainer" class of airplanes, Vy isn't really used above pattern altitude IME. There's generally a faster cruise climb speed that's more appropriate as it gives up very little climb rate but allows for better visibility (which isn't a problem in the DA40 with its low cowl anyway), better engine cooling, and gets you where you're going faster. While the DA40 makes an OK trainer, it's really into the next class above IMO, and you'd probably like it more if flown accordingly.
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As I've said - I don't like the tendency for the DA40 to drift around in the wind and what is, at least, a sensation of a very nose up, slow attitude for climb. Flaps are largely irrelevant to that sensation - most of my primary was in Cherokees, where you are using 2 notches of flaps for short and soft fields. Also, there is no question that it climbs at a much slower speed than what I currently fly. I don't use Vy above 1000' AGL (sometimes even earlier, if the conditions are just pushing the airplane up very fast) and fly airplanes with a Vy 25 knots or so faster than a DA40.
 
If you ever get a charlie horse in your hamstring in a DA40, good luck straightening that leg out very far lol. You'll be unbuckling that seat belt right quick.
 
N1120A said:
As I've said - I don't like the tendency for the DA40 to drift around in the wind and what is, at least, a sensation of a very nose up, slow attitude for climb. Flaps are largely irrelevant to that sensation - most of my primary was in Cherokees, where you are using 2 notches of flaps for short and soft fields.
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Oh, but they are relevant - I think Cherokees feel fairly nose up with or without flaps, whereas the DA40 always felt like it was sinking when retracting flaps UNLESS you pulled the nose up a fair amount to compensate. It has very effective flaps, and they change the sight picture more than most small airplanes IMO.

The other possible misunderstanding is that Vy is 67 *with the flaps set to takeoff*. You're supposed to accelerate to 76 with the flaps up... And like I said, accelerating further (like 90-100) will give you plenty of climb without feeling uncomfortable.
 
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Well now the link goes to an entirely different plane lol.
This time you have to 'call for price'.

Bless their heart...The little scammers that could.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Well now the link goes to an entirely different plane lol.
This time you have to 'call for price'.

Bless their heart...The little scammers that could.
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Oddly enough, John Armstrong is a very reputable seller of DA40s... I wonder if the phone number is really his, or if someone putting an ad up for him made a serious mistake or three. I never saw the original listing, always the "call" one.
 
Also another major question it kind of seems like a stupid thing. But I’m going to do the Cirrus Transition program, and I found a flight school who have an SR22 G3 Perspective for 310$wet/hr and another that has an SR20 G6 for 315$/hr wet and 283$/hr block. I know it’s obvious to do the SR22 as it’s faster and cheaper, but once I complete the Transition Programing I’ll only be able to rent a Cirrus SR22 G3 with perspective. The issue is other schools who even rent an SR22 (they’re usually in the $400s) have minimum experience requirements of 100 hours total time. I only have 40. It’ll be a while to get 100. If I just do local trips, what do you suggest to Transition in?
 
Renesh Kumaresan said:
Also another major question it kind of seems like a stupid thing. But I’m going to do the Cirrus Transition program, and I found a flight school who have an SR22 G3 Perspective for 310$wet/hr and another that has an SR20 G6 for 315$/hr wet and 283$/hr block. I know it’s obvious to do the SR22 as it’s faster and cheaper, but once I complete the Transition Programing I’ll only be able to rent a Cirrus SR22 G3 with perspective. The issue is other schools who even rent an SR22 (they’re usually in the $400s) have minimum experience requirements of 100 hours total time. I only have 40. It’ll be a while to get 100. If I just do local trips, what do you suggest to Transition in?
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Transition into the one you expect to fly.

Having recently made an inquiry into getting "reacquainted" with Cirrus just for the fun of it, I learned a bit about the Cirrus transition/recurrent training program. Yep, among other things, they treat a Perspective model as though it were a completely different airplane than an Avidyne model. The program is impressive but IMO very clearly designed for dedicated renters; those who are going to fly one pretty much exclusively. Not just make, but model. It is not set up as a program for those who like to fly multiple types, even from the same manufacturer.

So, I'd say, base your decision on your primary mission. Treat it as though you were buying the airplane or leasing long term.
 
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