Determining the tops + Thickness of clouds

akpilot907

akpilot907

Pre-takeoff checklist
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citabriav8tr
When a METAR/TAF/FA reports the clouds to be at: BRK003 FEW027 SCT 060 .... How do I determine the thickness and tops of the clouds? Are the bases of them at 003 extending up to 060? Where can I find a depiction/ picture of what the sky looks like with (FEW, SCT, BRK) Thank you
 
You can't. You have to rely on PIREPS and to some extent radar composite images.
 
XM\WX provides real time Echo Tops. I found them accurate enough for climbing decision. You can also use infrared satellite images, also provided on XM\WX. XM\WX also provides turbulence areas. None of these are available on ADS-B WX.

Echo Tops and other associated phenomenas continously change within an hour period. Here in Florida I can see build up growth as I pass them, very impressive. Any information obtained on the ground is useless due to the quick grow some of this build up can have. This is why I rely on XM\WX Echo Tops and satellite pictures.

José
 
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That website makes my head hurt. I wouldn't ask even my most mortal enemy to try to make sense of that abominable gibberish, graphics and abbreviations.
 
Well, thanks for your feedback.

To those who want to spend 5 minutes to learn what the skew-t is, and how it can really help, it is worth your while.
 
As Mike has said they are not that hard to read even with only a few minutes of training. If you use them on a regular basis you can figure them out pretty quickly. They are just another tool in the box, but a pretty useful tool.
 
I wasn't criticising you for posting it or using it, Mike G. Not at all. In fact I'm amazed you've managed to decipher that stuff. I just find that website the most user-unfriendly website in the history of the internet and whoever publishes it needs to get his head checked. Someone could make millions setting up a site that presents the same information comprehensible.

I mean - what does this even mean?:

Op40 (to 18h, NCEP 13km RAP on 40km grid, hourly, formerly "RUC") or
Bak40 (to 24h, Backup 13km RUC on 40km grid, hourly, formerly "MAPS") or
Bak13 (Archival analyses and 3h forecasts, available at these airports) or
FIM (to 5 days, Global, 0.5° grid, 12-hourly) or
GFS (to 5 days, Global, 0.5° grid, 12-hourly) or
NAM (to 15h, 3-hourly) or
RAOBs or Profilers or Radiometers or Aircraft (restricted) or
RETRO (special restores) or CIMSS (special RAOBs)
RR1h, (Rapid Refresh, hourly cycle) or RRnc (Rapid Refresh, non-cycling, every 12h) or
Op20 (NCEP 13km RAP on 20km grid) or Bak20 (Backup 13km RUC on 20km grid)
dev (no TAMDAR, 20km, ended 1/5/09) or dev2 (with TAMDAR, 20km, ended 1/5/09) or
Dev1320 (Dev13 on 20 km grid)
 
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I believe those are the different weather models that interpolate and forecast from the fixed number of soundings that are taken twice a day. I was taught to use the Op40.
The website is a bit cumbersome because our Government put it together.
 
Scott @ avwxworkshops.com has a free intro to skew-t stuff:
http://avwxworkshops.com/workshop-detail.php?contentSet=NDg=

And here is a really basic overview I put together for our local flyer group:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14Sbdbs5q1XyJoBggDLtTUGKkmaHuasCrFhRFWv21NpY/edit?usp=sharing

And Tim - you are still on my radar to call and meet up with about the plane... My life lately has been govt shutdown and debt crisis, havent had anytime at home nor head above water... will be back in town mid-next-week and will catch up with ya!
 
A basic understanding of Skew-Ts is not difficult, but is a very good idea. Cloud tops and ice are big things I'm interested in (especially ice) and it's helped me figure those out many times.
 
I was without skew-t's during the govt shutdown and it really messed up some of my flight planning on a recent 2600nm trip. I resorted to the area forecast.

Definitely recommend learning skew-t's. I picked up Scott's course on them a while back, worth its weight in gold.
 
I understand you are busy Mike. There is no hurry. I might head out to I73 Saturday. I hear there might be a kewl 310 there sometime
 
Since attending the seminar, I try to review the Skew T for the day and then see how close the actual weather comes to what I have figured it to be. Great practice and it keeps me working with them
 
Your problem is that the RUC website is designed and intended for meteorologists not pilots. The equivalent source for pilots is the area forecast, a lot of which is derived from the same info as the Skew-Ts. Unfortunately the FAs are a lot less detailed location wise. Another tool for pilots with better resolution is NOAAs Flight Path Tool:

http://aviationweather.gov/adds/fptapplication

stratobee said:
I wasn't criticising you for posting it or using it, Mike G. Not at all. In fact I'm amazed you've managed to decipher that stuff. I just find that website the most user-unfriendly website in the history of the internet and whoever publishes it needs to get his head checked. Someone could make millions setting up a site that presents the same information comprehensible.

I mean - what does this even mean?:

Op40 (to 18h, NCEP 13km RAP on 40km grid, hourly, formerly "RUC") or
Bak40 (to 24h, Backup 13km RUC on 40km grid, hourly, formerly "MAPS") or
Bak13 (Archival analyses and 3h forecasts, available at these airports) or
FIM (to 5 days, Global, 0.5° grid, 12-hourly) or
GFS (to 5 days, Global, 0.5° grid, 12-hourly) or
NAM (to 15h, 3-hourly) or
RAOBs or Profilers or Radiometers or Aircraft (restricted) or
RETRO (special restores) or CIMSS (special RAOBs)
RR1h, (Rapid Refresh, hourly cycle) or RRnc (Rapid Refresh, non-cycling, every 12h) or
Op20 (NCEP 13km RAP on 20km grid) or Bak20 (Backup 13km RUC on 20km grid)
dev (no TAMDAR, 20km, ended 1/5/09) or dev2 (with TAMDAR, 20km, ended 1/5/09) or
Dev1320 (Dev13 on 20 km grid)
Click to expand...
 
tmyers said:
I understand you are busy Mike. There is no hurry. I might head out to I73 Saturday. I hear there might be a kewl 310 there sometime
Click to expand...

Maybe, need to talk to M^2. ;)
 
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