Depression and flying

U

Unregistered

Guest
Hi everyone,

I'm 15 years old and I'm pursuing my dream of becoming a pilot; I have for about 10 months now. Let me be clear, I'm not pursuing my ATP to go to the airlines. I want this to be a hobby and to fly my family and friends. Basically, here's my dilemma. I'm depressed. This hasn't been diagnosed, and nobody other than my closest of friends know, but I know that if I were to go to a doctor it would be diagnosed. It's not like I've been sad for a week. Trust me.

Anyway, this is becoming a major dilemma for me. On one hand of things, I can't take feeling like this anymore. I want to get treated. I can't handle all of this pain anymore. On the other hand, I can't give up my dream. There is no amount of treatment or medication that will overcome crushing that one big life dream that everyone has, flying being mine.

So, obviously, I've done my research. I know the FAA's standards on depression and flying. Here's my issue. First, what if I don't get prescribed one of the four anti-depressants the FAA allows? What if my dosage is different than they allow? What if I try all four and none are the one for me? Also, even if I am prescribed one of the four, in the dosage they allow, and it works, I need to be stable for a year. I am not gonna have time to pursue everything I wanna pursue before going to college if it's going to be over a year until I can start flying again. If I can't get my training done before college, I don't think I'll really be able to do it until I retire.

I get even more frustrated because even if by some chance anti-depressants aren't for me, which I don't think is true, I can't fly while pursuing therapy. That like doesn't work. When you're going to therapy for depression it's not like you go 3 times then you're good and you stop.

I feel like my life has put me in a hole. Either 1. Pursue my dream and never experience happiness. Or 2. Crush my dreams and live a life of sorrowful regret but have a proper brain chemical balance.

I really appreciate the help here guys. I don't feel comfortable talking to my CFI about it because I think it'll make him nervous to fly with me. I just feel so stuck and I don't know what to do. I need advice.
 
Contact a Senior AME for a consultation and advice (NOT a FAA medical exam). With the SI protocols, being diagnosed for depression is not as scary as it sounds.

One of the AME docs many here like is Bruce Chien. You can reach him at AeroMedicalDoc.com.
 
warthog1984 said:
Contact a Senior AME for a consultation and advice (NOT a FAA medical exam). With the SI protocols, being diagnosed for depression is not as scary as it sounds.

One of the AME docs many here like is Bruce Chien. You can reach him at AeroMedicalDoc.com.
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Can I trust whatever I say to be kept anonymous? I mean I guess I can make a random email for it I just can't let anyone find out. I have my first class medical.
 
At 15 you have the whole world ahead of you. Be positive you do not need to worry about health, work, family support and other issues that comes with age. Enjoy your age now because it will pass with time. Spend time with friends and stay out of trouble.

José
 
I'd pursue every private counseling option to see if you can get to the root of the issue before assuming there was only a pharmacy-based solution.
 
Being 15 sucks for most people. It will get better, much better, soon. May seem like a long time coming but that is just youth time distortion. If you aren't getting exercise, get some. Consistently.
 
Piloto said:
At 15 you have the whole world ahead of you. Be positive you do not need to worry about health, work, family support and other issues that comes with age. Enjoy your age now because it will pass with time. Spend time with friends and stay out of trouble.

José
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X100 and way too much drama.
 
LDJones said:
I'd pursue every private counseling option to see if you can get to the root of the issue before assuming there was only a pharmacy-based solution.
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Alternatively, spend every waking moment you're not in school at the airport. I think airplanes, airports and pilots are very therapeutic. :yes:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Being 15 sucks for most people. It will get better, much better, soon. May seem like a long time coming but that is just youth time distortion. If you aren't getting exercise, get some. Consistently.
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+1 exercise can help a lot and hormones are doing a lot of things at that age. Start studying for the written test to keep your mind on flying.
 
I really appreciate all of this guys, don't take tbis the wrong way, but it's just not that simple. Unless you've been there, you just don't understand. It's not teenage hormones. It's not just being young. Getting a treadmill won't fix it. (I play sports for the record) it is more serious than that. Simply trust me on that. Do I need medication? Maybe not. But I need help. The problem is according to the FAA while pursuing any treatment including seeing someone you should not be flying. Please do not tell me to just enjoy life. The things I would give to make that happen.
 
One thing to consider is that if you get treated, and end up being grounded for a time, you would still be allowed to fly with an instructor.

Another possibility would be going for a sport pilot certificate. When exercising sport pilot privileges, the only issue is whether you and your doctor think you are safe to fly. Bear in mind though, that this option is only open to you if you have not failed an FAA medical exam.

Glider and balloon pilots also do not require a medical certificate.
 
Unfortunately, I've seen real depression a couple times, and I've seen what it did to a very, very, good friend of mine a few years older than you are now. It's been almost 40 years and it still ****es me off that he killed himself, but it wasn't really him, it was the depression. When my neighbor buddy killed himself (in his 40s), he was actually being treated but might have been off his meds. Real, honest to God depression is a scary thing to see in someone else

My advice is to worry about your health first, flying second. But there are ways to do that and protect your flying options.

One thing you can do is contact Dr Chien and explain. You will have to be fully, completely honest. Don't conveniently "forget to mention" something. Ask him for suggestions on how to proceed.

Good luck and take care.
 
Unregistered said:
I really appreciate all of this guys, don't take tbis the wrong way, but it's just not that simple. Unless you've been there, you just don't understand. It's not teenage hormones. It's not just being young. Getting a treadmill won't fix it. (I play sports for the record) it is more serious than that. Simply trust me on that. Do I need medication? Maybe not. But I need help. The problem is according to the FAA while pursuing any treatment including seeing someone you should not be flying. Please do not tell me to just enjoy life. The things I would give to make that happen.
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Has the depression been bad enough that you have had thoughts of committing suicide?

You said your closest friends know - I assume then that your parent(s) or guardian(s) don't? Are you afraid to tell them because of the possible consequences? (Such as losing further control of your future?)

Given your age, it seems unlikely you would be able to pay for the kind of medical attention you would need without eventually telling parents. When you do find you have to talk with them, it may be useful to start out by pointing out that your desire to earn a pilot license has hit a problem that needs fixing. That lets them know your top priority and goal so that any "solutions" that don't lead to a resolution in that direction can be discarded or set aside as "plan B".

Depression can have many causes - you'll need professional guidance and getting a consultation (not an aviation medical exam) with an AME, which has already been recommended, is probably first or second on your list of things to do, given your strong desire to fly.

Lastly, while you'll get a stern warning from some posters that this next bit of advice is bad advice, consider getting a sport pilot license rather than a private pilot. Perfect for hobby flying without requiring a medical - and you can feel comfortable with seeing a doctor about your depression with low likely-hood of negative consequences to your continued flying. The only downside is you'll only be able to take one passenger with you at a time. That is not always such a bad limitation, in my humble opinion.
 
The FAA pushes people away from getting the treatment they need. It's a really bad policy.
 
Unregistered said:
Can I trust whatever I say to be kept anonymous? I mean I guess I can make a random email for it I just can't let anyone find out. I have my first class medical.
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I gather this was written by someone other than the 15-y/o original poster. If you have been diagnosed with clinical depression while holding a First Class medical certificate, you should know that you are required by 14 CFR 61.53 to ground yourself immediately from any flying activities requiring a medical certificate. If your plan is to hide your condition from the FAA and keep flying illegally in the interim, you probably won't find any AME willing to participate in your illegal plan, so I don't see attempting to anonymously go through the steps necessary to obtain FAA approval to fly with a SSRI SI medical as being a feasible plan. At some point, the FAA will get your medical records showing your original diagnosis, compare that with your flight records, and probably revoke your pilot certificate.

If this was written by the original 15-y/o poster, my advice is to immediately obtain appropriate medical evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment, and then see where the situation goes. You should certainly get your treating physician to consult with someone like the abovementioned Dr. Chien to see if any prescribed treatment or medication can be done within the FAA's protocols for SSRI's and depression, but not at the expense of addressing your medical condition -- your health is far more important than aviation.
 
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Unregistered said:
Hi everyone,

I'm 15 years old and I'm pursuing my dream of becoming a pilot; I have for about 10 months now. Let me be clear, I'm not pursuing my ATP to go to the airlines. I want this to be a hobby and to fly my family and friends. Basically, here's my dilemma. I'm depressed. This hasn't been diagnosed, and nobody other than my closest of friends know, but I know that if I were to go to a doctor it would be diagnosed. It's not like I've been sad for a week. Trust me.

Anyway, this is becoming a major dilemma for me. On one hand of things, I can't take feeling like this anymore. I want to get treated. I can't handle all of this pain anymore. On the other hand, I can't give up my dream. There is no amount of treatment or medication that will overcome crushing that one big life dream that everyone has, flying being mine.

So, obviously, I've done my research. I know the FAA's standards on depression and flying. Here's my issue. First, what if I don't get prescribed one of the four anti-depressants the FAA allows? What if my dosage is different than they allow? What if I try all four and none are the one for me? Also, even if I am prescribed one of the four, in the dosage they allow, and it works, I need to be stable for a year. I am not gonna have time to pursue everything I wanna pursue before going to college if it's going to be over a year until I can start flying again. If I can't get my training done before college, I don't think I'll really be able to do it until I retire.

I get even more frustrated because even if by some chance anti-depressants aren't for me, which I don't think is true, I can't fly while pursuing therapy. That like doesn't work. When you're going to therapy for depression it's not like you go 3 times then you're good and you stop.

I feel like my life has put me in a hole. Either 1. Pursue my dream and never experience happiness. Or 2. Crush my dreams and live a life of sorrowful regret but have a proper brain chemical balance.

I really appreciate the help here guys. I don't feel comfortable talking to my CFI about it because I think it'll make him nervous to fly with me. I just feel so stuck and I don't know what to do. I need advice.
Click to expand...

Aviation is not for you.
 
Datadriver said:
Aviation is not for you.
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I think this is bum advice. Depression is a medical condition, not a choice.

To the OP...I'd say get yourself the help you need, and then figure out the aviation piece. It will all come together, but work on getting rid of that cloud hanging over you first. Even if you have to fly with a CFI until you can get your medical, it's stilly flying.
 
I'm just gonna make one general response here. First, all the "anonymous" posts have been from myself, the OP. To be clear, I have not been diagnosed with any conditions, and I do have a first class medical. I really appreciate all the advice. All of your comments and pieces of advice are very much appreciated. I know I should take care of myself before I take care of aviation, and right now I'm not even in a position to be flying in conditions without a CFI, but it just makes me so nervous that if I seek help, I will be attached with a label to which I can never get rid of, and I'll never be able to fly again. It terrifies me.

Also, let me just say, a sport pilot certificate is not for me. I want to pursue private, instrument, and then train for my Multi in a complex and high performance aircraft and nail all of that. Anything less and I won't be satisfied.
 
Why would a fifteen year old who has no interest in aviation as a career hold a first class medical? And make references to college and retirement? Sorry, but something smells fishy here.
 
Well you might be satisfied you don't know until you've tried. The vanilla GA path is boring as f*#$
 
Brad Z said:
Why would a fifteen year old who has no interest in aviation as a career hold a first class medical?
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Because a teenager who is involved in athletics should have no problem or concern about passing such a medical. Even what's-her-name from Flying Wild Alaska got a first class medical when she had no reason to.

And make references to college and retirement?
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College is definitely on the minds of many teenagers at that age. The comment that mentioned retirement referenced a point in life, not a part of any life plan.

Sorry, but something smells fishy here.
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You think maybe it's part of a devious plot to take over America? Or just Pilots of America?

Have you considered that being that paranoid and suspicious might make you unsafe to fly? You could start a thread "Paranoia and flying".
 
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Unregistered said:
I know I should take care of myself before I take care of aviation, and right now I'm not even in a position to be flying in conditions without a CFI, but it just makes me so nervous that if I seek help, I will be attached with a label to which I can never get rid of, and I'll never be able to fly again. It terrifies me.
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Sounds like fear of the unknown. Do you know what is causing the depression? If you don't, then any fears you have about the consequences of being examined are, at best, premature. At worst you just feed a fear that might feed the depression that might otherwise be resolved by some simple treatment. (e.g. change in diet, sleep pattern, supplements, etc.)

Also, let me just say, a sport pilot certificate is not for me. I want to pursue private, instrument, and then train for my Multi in a complex and high performance aircraft and nail all of that. Anything less and I won't be satisfied.
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Why all those ratings or nothing? Were you thinking of also getting a commercial license?
 
Ron Levy said:
I gather this was written by someone other than the 15-y/o original poster. If you have been diagnosed with clinical depression while holding a First Class medical certificate, you should know that you are required by 14 CFR 61.53 to ground yourself immediately from any flying activities requiring a medical certificate. If your plan is to hide your condition from the FAA and keep flying illegally in the interim, you probably won't find any AME willing to participate in your illegal plan, so I don't see attempting to anonymously go through the steps necessary to obtain FAA approval to fly with a SSRI SI medical as being a feasible plan. At some point, the FAA will get your medical records showing your original diagnosis, compare that with your flight records, and probably revoke your pilot certificate.

If this was written by the original 15-y/o poster, my advice is to immediately obtain appropriate medical evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment, and then see where the situation goes. You should certainly get your treating physician to consult with someone like the abovementioned Dr. Chien to see if any prescribed treatment or medication can be done within the FAA's protocols for SSRI's and depression, but not at the expense of addressing your medical condition -- your health is far more important than aviation.
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Unfortunately this I captainmoms answer for everything. Go see a therapist under the table, not prescribed by a doctor, talk it out, the faa will never know. Talking can really help. I've been in aviation for 35yrs you would be shocked at what the pros omit. Therapy is the best advice. I promise it will help
 
Ron Levy said:
At some point, the FAA will get your medical records showing your original diagnosis, compare that with your flight records, and probably revoke your pilot certificate.
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AND THIS IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF CRAP IVE EVER READ! Chances are extremely slim the faa will ever get your medical records. Captain mom likes to take the scare tactic in these things. Maybe if you are a pilot on a plane with the outcome of flight 370 the man will investigate your life however, otherwise they won't. Move helped on NTSB accident investigation teams for 15yrs, we look at a blood test of pilots, then a 3 day history, if something is out of the ordinary on blood test we,for example a drug that wasn't reported, then we investigate.
 
Brad Z said:
Why would a fifteen year old who has no interest in aviation as a career hold a first class medical? And make references to college and retirement? Sorry, but something smells fishy here.
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What difference does it make? Would discussing a hypothetical situation be so much more of a strain than discussing a real one?
 
I agree with you above, this is what drives me crazy about this forum,mpeople are out to judge and scare rather than help.
 
Unitedcap said:
I agree with you above, this is what drives me crazy about this forum,mpeople are out to judge and scare rather than help.
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We've seen our fair share of anonymous posters who simply weren't interested in actually helping themselves. It builds a few callouses. Not that big a deal, really. A lot of them shouldn't be posting and should be sitting in a Doc's office.

To the OP: Get help. Professional help. Worrying about flying and FAA when you know you don't feel right is self-destructive bull****. Why hurt yourself by delaying treatment?

Get well first, then worry about flying.

You also do not have the all of the knowledge to self-diagnose at 15. A professional may decide you really aren't depressed. You don't know yet.

For all you know, you could have a simple hormonal imbalance easily treatable with non-mental health drugs. There's many medical conditions that aren't clinical depression that can bring on symptoms of depression.

Go see a Doc. You know you don't feel right. You're not one. It probably isn't going to fix itself.

Go get it taken care of. Aviation will be here when you get back. FAA may have hoops to jump through. So what?

Once you're feeling right, those hoops won't seem all that inappropriate, nor all that hard. Compared to when you're experiencing depression, if that's what it is, they'll seem much much smaller.
 
Unitedcap said:
Unfortunately this I captainmoms answer for everything. Go see a therapist under the table, not prescribed by a doctor, talk it out, the faa will never know.
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This is very bad advice. The FAA may well find out, and if you're caught doing this, you're done in aviation permanently.

Talking can really help. I've been in aviation for 35yrs you would be shocked at what the pros omit. Therapy is the best advice. I promise it will help
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I can't promise that it will help (nobody can do that), but getting appropriate medical evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment has to be your first priority. Then see what the situation is and take appropriate action -- and hiding medical conditions or lying about them is never appropriate.
 
I am not expert, but it occurs to me that if you have a First class medical, you should surrender it. You might not have done it on purpose, but if you know have a disqualifying condition, IMO,you committed perjury when you filled out your application for the medical certificate... Item 18 says " Have you EVER in your life been diagnosed with, HAD, or PRESENTLY have any of the following?
m). Mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc?"
Perhaps my interpretation of this is incorrect, but I take it that a DIAGNOSIS is not required.
FYI:Falsification of the airman medical application form 8500-8 may result in adverse action including fines up to $250,000, imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and all pilot certificates.
 
cherokeeflyboy said:
I am not expert, but it occurs to me that if you have a First class medical, you should surrender it. You might not have done it on purpose, but if you know have a disqualifying condition, IMO,you committed perjury when you filled out your application for the medical certificate... Item 18 says " Have you EVER in your life been diagnosed with, HAD, or PRESENTLY have any of the following?

m). Mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc?"

Perhaps my interpretation of this is incorrect, but I take it that a DIAGNOSIS is not required.

FYI:Falsification of the airman medical application form 8500-8 may result in adverse action including fines up to $250,000, imprisonment up to 5 years and revocation of medical and all pilot certificates.
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A bit much. The law already covers this. One may hold the piece of paper and self-ground whenever one knows they're not medically fit to fly.

One should not lie and apply for RENEWAL, but "surrender" is totally unnecessary.
 
Unregistered said:
I really appreciate all of this guys, don't take tbis the wrong way, but it's just not that simple. Unless you've been there, you just don't understand. It's not teenage hormones. It's not just being young. Getting a treadmill won't fix it. (I play sports for the record) it is more serious than that. Simply trust me on that. Do I need medication? Maybe not. But I need help. The problem is according to the FAA while pursuing any treatment including seeing someone you should not be flying. Please do not tell me to just enjoy life. The things I would give to make that happen.
Click to expand...

What's going on in your life that's not going on in other 15 years old's lives? Symptoms? Factors?
 
denverpilot said:
A bit much. The law already covers this. One may hold the piece of paper and self-ground whenever one knows they're not medically fit to fly.

One should not lie and apply for RENEWAL, but "surrender" is totally unnecessary.
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I would agree if the condition occurred AFTER the medical was obtained, but I dont think this is the case here.
 
cherokeeflyboy said:
I would agree if the condition occurred AFTER the medical was obtained, but I dont think this is the case here.
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He said he already had it. If he lied to get it, he will have to live with his poor decision once the professional gets the truth from him. No senior AME will put their livelihood on the line without knowing the truth.

So advice still stands. Get help. Deal with FAA later.
 
OP here. I've got a lot to comment on so let me go ahead and comment on it all.

To the person saying why would I have a first class medical when I should never need one, it's because I want to know if I ever change my mind on career plans that I can pass a first class, and it was no additional cost so I figured why not?

To the person asking if this is because I'm in the closet, that is not the case.

To the person asking what's going on in my life that's different than others, I don't want to reveal extreme details of my life, but at the heart of it, nothing. I just am sad. Like I said before, unless you've been there, you don't understand.

To those saying that I am in violation of terms of my first class medical, I disagree. I have never seen a doctor for this issue, so I have none of those diagnoses. I disagree with the statement that someone might think, "Oh, anxiety? I get anxious about things. Well doc, looks like I don't qualify!" I think that's the equivalent to if someone just had a death in the family, they should be disqualified, because obviously they'll be sad temporarily. If I believe it will affect my flying, I won't fly, and I go through an honest IM SAFE checklist before every flight. I've cancelled flights because I had a bad gut about the flight. I practice safe medical procedures when flying. If I were to be diagnosed with anything, I would not hide or cover anything up from the FAA.

I know the best advice and what I should carry out is to get the help I need first, and worry about aviation second, but that's just so hard to do. I'm sure in the end that's what I'll end up doing, but it's hard not to have that constant paranoia about what might happen with my medical history and the FAA.
 
Occasional depression, or depression because something is not right in your life is normal and happens to everyone.

At 15, there's a lot going on in a person's life that lends it's self to feeling this temporary depression. Unless you're seriously contemplating suicide, I'd try to ride it out. A lot changes between 15 and 18... and a lot more changes by your mid 20s. You might find fulfillment or relationships that change your outlook by then naturally.

If you go into a doc's office and tell them you're feeling depressed it's almost guaranteed they'll give you the diagnosis you handed them. They'll talk to you a little bit then prescribe you help in a bottle... and a lot of people once they get started can only seem to find help out of that bottle and never learn to deal with their problems head on. If they did their lives might very well be better and they might not need the drugs...

Then there are a few who really truly need and do benefit from the drugs... my take is to be really really really sure you absolutely NEED that kind of help before going down that road. I wish the FAA and our medical system dealt with these things better, but they don't so be wary.
 
Im sorry your having such a hard time. I know you say your sad, but have you thought about why?Do you have pets and friends or are you generally alone? I know you may not want to hear the same old stuff but remember things do get better. It took until my 20's to finally enjoy life...I hope you will see different feelings then too. You havent said your contemplating it ...but....suicide is not the answer, there is always someone who cares.
 
cherokeeflyboy said:
Item 18 says " Have you EVER in your life been diagnosed with, HAD, or PRESENTLY have any of the following?
m). Mental disorders of any sort; depression, anxiety, etc?"
Perhaps my interpretation of this is incorrect, but I take it that a DIAGNOSIS is not required.
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Your interpretation is incorrect. Unless the original poster's name is Doogie Howser, he cannot possibly be in a position to diagnose anything, including himself.

Consider this: if any person were to answer YES to that item and the FAA were to ask for more information on the specifics, the person would only be able to respond with a statement of their own observations and their own analysis that lead to their self-diagnosis. I can't imagine many situations where that sort of response would be considered acceptable or believable.

If the FAA were perverse enough to accept a self-diagnosis of an illness, they'd logically also have to accept self-diagnoses that one has become "cured" of whatever ailed them.
 
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