Delta MadDog engine failure this morning!

Yup. I used to bid trips that had high duty/trip rigs credit, them drop them once awarded, and all I had to pick up was enough to cover scheduled block of those trips. Usually a 3 day or a couple of 'em would be enough. Off 20-25 days in a month and get guarantee. Being senior helped of course.
 
jordane93 said:
Dad managed to get out of currency flying the 737. All of the instructors were amazed how he did it. Living in base on reserve is a beautiful thing!
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I have a friend who was a DAL 777 FO and lived near ATL. He flew one or two trips a month, all reserve and had plenty of free time. He said those days are gone though.
 
comanchepilot said:
Fire guys should know that . . . even if its not transferrable or useable - it burns in a crash!
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So if you tell a fire fighter that you have 4.5 hours of fuel on board how does that change his reaction vs if you have one hour of fuel on board? In my Bonanza 4.5 hours of fuel is about 55 gallons. In the 767 it's about 6,700 gallons. I'm not sure where it is on the maddog, but it's somewhere in the middle. How would you calculate that? Max fuel burn, min fuel burn, current altitude and speed fuel burn?

Every emergency I've declared included a cursory glance at my total fuel and about .69 seconds of mental math to make a best guess. Nothing I've ever been in the cockpit of (including the MD) has a timer that tells you how long you have till you are out of fuel. It's a best guess, not a flight planning gotcha.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I have a friend who was a DAL 777 FO and lived near ATL. He flew one or two trips a month, all reserve and had plenty of free time. He said those days are gone though.
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A lot of it just depends on whether you're fortunate enough to be in a base with equipment that is staffed well enough to pull it off. Our short call late RAP (reserve availability period) guys are notorious for not flying. The FOs on my plane commonly go two months without being called. That said, you're also tethered to a three hour leash for 18 days of the month, which many guys (including me) don't like. If I'm gonna bid reserve, I prefer long call (12 hours), which allows me the flexibility to drink when I want and go where I want, but the LC guys will get called more. On my airplane in my seat, it's usually 8 or 9 days of work.

I wish I had the personality for enjoying reserve more, but unfortunately I'm just too wound up when on call to genuinely relax. The trick is to get good at reading the open time tea leaves and knowing if you'll get called or not, with a healthy dose of just not giving a s*** if you get called for a trip you can't make. I envy the guys that are good at it. So my dumb ass ends up bidding a line and working more, but at least I can walk away from the jet and mentally turn the job completely off until I'm due to fly again.
 
In an emergency you tell ATC your fuel remaining in minutes and in pounds. ATC uses the minutes and passes the pounds on to CFR.
 
EvilEagle said:
So if you tell a fire fighter that you have 4.5 hours of fuel on board how does that change his reaction vs if you have one hour of fuel on board? In my Bonanza 4.5 hours of fuel is about 55 gallons. In the 767 it's about 6,700 gallons. I'm not sure where it is on the maddog, but it's somewhere in the middle. How would you calculate that? Max fuel burn, min fuel burn, current altitude and speed fuel burn?

Every emergency I've declared included a cursory glance at my total fuel and about .69 seconds of mental math to make a best guess. Nothing I've ever been in the cockpit of (including the MD) has a timer that tells you how long you have till you are out of fuel. It's a best guess, not a flight planning gotcha.
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The 777, being the lazy man's airplane, has a spot in the COMM area that gives the fuel in pounds and time. Only plane I've seen that does that (though I'm sure the 787 does as well).
 
Rex Kramer said:
The 777, being the lazy man's airplane, has a spot in the COMM area that gives the fuel in pounds and time.
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That's probably for the best. I'd imagine that you guys are far too busy trying to figure out the break schedule, anyway...
 
Larry in TN said:
That's probably for the best. I'd imagine that you guys are far too busy trying to figure out the break schedule, anyway...
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That and counting their stacks of cash! :)
 
Larry in TN said:
In an emergency you tell ATC your fuel remaining in minutes and in pounds. ATC uses the minutes and passes the pounds on to CFR.
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Never been told to tell them in pounds. Never done it on any emergency I've ever declared. ATC has never asked.
 
EvilEagle said:
Never been told to tell them in pounds. Never done it on any emergency I've ever declared. ATC has never asked.
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Yup. When I was a controller in the USAF that's all we ever requested and/or received. Here's the emergency section that relates to this directly from FAA 7110.65W, Controller's handbook:

10
−
2
−
1. INFORMATION REQUIREMENTS
a.
Start assistance as soon as enough information
has been obtained upon which to act. Information
requirements will vary, depending on the existing
situation.
Minimum required information for inflight
emergencies is:
NOTE
−
In the event of
an ELT signal see
para 10
−
2
−
10, Emer
gency
Locator Transmitter (ELT) Signals.
1.
Aircraft identification and type.
2.
Nature of the emergency.
3.
Pilot’s desires.
b.
After initiating action, obtain the following
items or any other pertinent information from the
pilot or aircraft operator, as necessary:
NOTE
−
Normally, do not request this information from military
fighter-type aircraft that are at low altitudes (i.e., on
approach, immediately after departure, on a low level
route, etc.). However, request the position of an aircraft
that is not visually sighted or displayed on radar if the
location is not given by the pilot.
1.
Aircraft altitude.
2.
Fuel remaining in time.
3.
Pilot reported weather.
4.
Pilot capability for IFR flight.
5.
Time and place of last known position.
6.
Heading since last known position.
7.
Airspeed.
8.
Navigation equipment capability.
9.
NAVAID signals received.
10.
Visible landmarks.
11.
Aircraft color.
12.
Number of people on board.
13.
Point of departure and destination.
14.
Emergency equipment on bo
 
Rex Kramer said:
It's amazing how airlines come up with new ways to fly planes that have been around for decades, eh?
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No kidding...... I've been on the same airplane, at the same company for 21 years. Every time I start studying for training, I feel like a new hire. The term "when did this change?" is uttered frequently to myself....

Don't get me started on the annual deicing procedures changes. They really have complicated what boils down to: If there's bad stuff on the airplane, spray some other stuff to remove it. If it's still getting bad stuff on it, remove it and spray different other stuff on it that will keep the bad stuff from accumulating long enough to take off. Now, it's like getting a new periodic table of the elements to ponder every year. They even come up with new and improved precip every so often!
 
jordane93 said:
Dad managed to get out of currency flying the 737. All of the instructors were amazed how he did it. Living in base on reserve is a beautiful thing!
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Yup... Other than seniority, living in base is the key to a happy life in the airlines. Both is best!

I bid all of my vacation in the winter time, and while I've never actually gone non current, I come close every year. To the point where I cannot manipulate my schedule outside of the 90 day window until I've flown, because I might not be legal if I don't.
 
Slipkid65 said:
Don't get me started on the annual deicing procedures changes. They really have complicated what boils down to: If there's bad stuff on the airplane, spray some other stuff to remove it. If it's still getting bad stuff on it, remove it and spray different other stuff on it that will keep the bad stuff from accumulating long enough to take off. Now, it's like getting a new periodic table of the elements to ponder every year. They even come up with new and improved precip every so often!
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Not in the game anymore (airlines) but you're so right. Every freaking winter there's new procedures for deicing. And home airport changes their procedures on top of the FAA changes.
 
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EvilEagle said:
Never been told to tell them in pounds. Never done it on any emergency I've ever declared. ATC has never asked.
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If you fly an airplane that holds thousands of pounds of fuel, CFR will want to know your fuel in pounds to give them an idea of what they may be dealing with in the landing causes a spill or fire.
 
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Larry in TN said:
If you fly an airplane that holds thousands of pounds of fuel, CFR will won't to know your fuel in pounds to give them an idea of what they may be dealing with in the landing causes a spill or fire.
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That's new to me. Not saying you're wrong, I just personally have never been asked.
 
kayoh190 said:
That's new to me. Not saying you're wrong, I just personally have never been asked.
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I've also never heard any airliner declaring an emergency on LiveATC give lbs.

In fact, the only time I've ever heard a pilot give lbs were Navy guys landing on the boat, but that is for an entirely different reason.
 
Larry in TN said:
If you fly an airplane that holds thousands of pounds of fuel, CFR will won't to know your fuel in pounds to give them an idea of what they may be dealing with in the landing causes a spill or fire.
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Did you not read post #53, right from the controller handbook? I even highlighted it in red for you. Ghesh. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
kayoh190 said:
A lot of it just depends on whether you're fortunate enough to be in a base with equipment that is staffed well enough to pull it off. Our short call late RAP (reserve availability period) guys are notorious for not flying. The FOs on my plane commonly go two months without being called. That said, you're also tethered to a three hour leash for 18 days of the month, which many guys (including me) don't like. If I'm gonna bid reserve, I prefer long call (12 hours), which allows me the flexibility to drink when I want and go where I want, but the LC guys will get called more. On my airplane in my seat, it's usually 8 or 9 days of work.

I wish I had the personality for enjoying reserve more, but unfortunately I'm just too wound up when on call to genuinely relax. The trick is to get good at reading the open time tea leaves and knowing if you'll get called or not, with a healthy dose of just not giving a s*** if you get called for a trip you can't make. I envy the guys that are good at it. So my dumb ass ends up bidding a line and working more, but at least I can walk away from the jet and mentally turn the job completely off until I'm due to fly again.
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Yup..... I sat reserve for 5.5 out of 7 years in a previous life. I got lucky at my current gig and have only had to endure 2 months of reserve (one when I was a new hire, and one about 10 years ago when I forgot to bid! You only do that once!) in over 2 decades and, even now, I have zero interest in dipping my toe in that world. I'm on the hook 12 days per month unless I want to work more or less. The rest is my time.......
 
mscard88 said:
Did you not read post #53, right from the controller handbook? I even highlighted it in red for you. Ghesh. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
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ATC needs fuel in time. That's what 7110.65 says. CFR needs fuel quantity and will ask ATC to get it in pounds.
 
Larry in TN said:
If you fly an airplane that holds thousands of pounds of fuel, CFR will want to know your fuel in pounds to give them an idea of what they may be dealing with in the landing causes a spill or fire.
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I do fly airplanes that hold thousands of pounds of fuel (F-15, 757 & 767).
 
"Alright guys... the emergency aircraft has 5000 pounds of fuel on board. Make sure we only load up with enough foam to deal with 5000 pounds + 30 minutes. Would hate to tanker too much out to the runway."
 
Anyone heard anything about what caused the engine failure?
 
ircphoenix said:
"Alright guys... the emergency aircraft has 5000 pounds of fuel on board. Make sure we only load up with enough foam to deal with 5000 pounds + 30 minutes. Would hate to tanker too much out to the runway."
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I would expect an issue about how much equipment to commit. All-out means you cannot handle a second emergency elsewhere on the field, and fire support is not free. If you need everything for a big event, you take it. But if you don't, holding some reserve is a good idea. 'Cause **** happens.

There is also an issue of, do you need to pull in equipment from the surrounding community? That has implications about fire support outside the airport.

These are all decisions that incident command must make. It's neither trivial nor obvious.
 
I would think the amount of resources brought to bear would be dependent on the aircraft type more than specific quantities of fuel on board. A 757 would probably dictate a significantly larger response than a GV, even if they both had 5000 pounds on board.
 
ircphoenix said:
Quite the opposite. There are more souls on board than there are passengers if you take into consideration all those they've consumed.
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Or it could be less if many sold their soul to the devil (or to Trump--I like Trump but he seems to be responsible for everything these days so why not this).
 
ircphoenix said:
I would think the amount of resources brought to bear would be dependent on the aircraft type more than specific quantities of fuel on board. A 757 would probably dictate a significantly larger response than a GV, even if they both had 5000 pounds on board.
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I don't think it does in my experience in the Air Force and their Fire Dept responding to emergencies. They position their trucks at various places on the airport (midfield, departure and approach ends for ex), and my experience flying 121 out of KATL for 24 years, the Hartsfield FD reacted similarly. Landed once in Ottawa or Toronto with a flap problem and they responded similarly. I think they'd rather be "overprepared" than not be.
 
mscard88 said:
I don't think it does in my experience in the Air Force and their Fire Dept responding to emergencies. They position their trucks at various places on the airport (midfield, departure and approach ends for ex), and my experience flying 121 out of KATL for 24 years, the Hartsfield FD reacted similarly. Landed once in Ottawa or Toronto with a flap problem and they responded similarly. I think they'd rather be "overprepared" than not be.
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I would assume that whatever resources are positioned on an airfield would roll out similarly for similar types of emergencies. I would think, however, that souls on board and size of the aircraft would take priority as far as terms of response than remaining fuel in lbs.
 
ircphoenix said:
I would assume that whatever resources are positioned on an airfield would roll out similarly for similar types of emergencies. I would think, however, that souls on board and size of the aircraft would take priority as far as terms of response than remaining fuel in lbs.
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I don't. An emergency is an emergency. Now if they had numerous emergencies at the same time maybe they would possibly prioritize, I dunno. I once had around 7-8 emergencies once simultaneously at Eglin AFB but that's only because Tyndall AFB just to the east had both their runways closed, one for maintenance the other only operational runway when an F-4 landed and took the arresting system. In addition to 1 or 2 from Eglin the rest came from Tyndall and had to go somewhere. This definitely overwhelmed the base FD, and some had to wait. Hung bombs and whatnot will make one nervous I guess, a few hot brakes too.
 
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