Deer Valley to Lake Havasu City

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
I would really like to make this flight (KDVT to KHII). My dilemma right now is deciding whether or not to fly direct (lower terrain, which is nice with my slow climbing Cherokee 140) or fly northwest, then west, then southwest to avoid the MOAs (fairly mountainous terrain in this route - at least in regards to my climb rate in the Cherokee).

I have never flown through MOAs before, so I am a little gun shy about it. I would be on Flight Following if possible for the entire flight.

Looking for any feedback, tips, etc
 
Keep in mind the floor of those MOAs is 7000'. So, you can fly through there around 6500' and be just fine, although you will probably be too low for effective comms with ATC to receive Flight following.

Personally, I would just stay VFR at 6500' and not worry about talking to ATC. It's a long way in a Cherokee 140 to go around the MOAs just to stay on Flight Following.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Personally, I would just stay VFR at 6500' and not worry about talking to ATC.
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It's nice to have that Flight Following lifeline though when flying over inhospitable terrain, as this flight will take the OP over some open stretches of land. At 6,500 he'll only have about 5 or so miles gliding range depending on where he is along the route. Are those MOAs always hot? If he does decide to just fly it at 6,500 I would file a VFR flight plan so at least if you don't check in you'll have someone coming to look for you

Might sound overly cautious, but I try to plan my routes around "worst case scenario, what do I do? How do I mitigate that?"
 
I just go out to Wickenburg, then Alamo Lake for some visual diversity, then West to the River. 6500 would be good, but even 4500 should work. You can't let the MOAs control your flying down here, just too many. Avoid flying along the Military Training Routes, and keep your eyes open. Flying up the river to Laughlin/Bullhead and lake Mohave is beautiful.
** I personally don't use FF on that trip, but am usually flying with other planes. And have a SPOT tracking. Solo, I might file and at least listen to ATC.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Keep in mind the floor of those MOAs is 7000'. So, you can fly through there around 6500' and be just fine, although you will probably be too low for effective comms with ATC to receive Flight following.

Personally, I would just stay VFR at 6500' and not worry about talking to ATC. It's a long way in a Cherokee 140 to go around the MOAs just to stay on Flight Following.
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Doh...didn't even realize they didn't start at 7000' till I looked...
 
CT4ME said:
I just go out to Wickenburg, then Alamo Lake for some visual diversity, then West to the River. 6500 would be good, but even 4500 should work. You can't let the MOAs control your flying down here, just too many. Avoid flying along the Military Training Routes, and keep your eyes open. Flying up the river to Laughlin/Bullhead and lake Mohave is beautiful.
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Thanks I will check out this route!
 
If you're making the trip on a weekend or holiday, there's a good chance the Gladden and Baghdad MOAs will be cold. Luke Approach can tell you. If they're hot, there's not a lot of terrain clearance below them, and as the temperature rises it can get really bumpy in there.

On that trip, if Gladden and Baghdad are active, I fly around the south side of Gladden, over friendlier terrain at a cooler and more comfortable altitude. After turning around the southwest corner of Gladden I head straight for KHII. The Quail and Turtle MOAs, which are used by the Marines out of Twentynine Palms, have floors of 10,000' and 11,000' respectively, and are less of a problem.

The notes on the Gladden and Baghdad MOAs say "0600-1900 Monday-Friday; other times by NOTAM." Quail and Turtle say the same, except it's "0700-1700".
 
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Pilawt said:
If you're making the trip on a weekend or holiday, there's a good chance the Gladden and Baghdad MOAs will be cold. Luke Approach can tell you. If they're hot, there's not a lot of terrain clearance below them, and as the temperature rises it can get really bumpy in there.

On that trip, if Gladden and Baghdad are active, I fly around the south side of Gladden, over friendlier terrain at a cooler and more comfortable altitude. After turning around the southwest corner of Gladden I head straight for KHII. The Quail and Turtle MOAs, which are used by the Marines out of Twentynine Palms, have floors of 10,000' and 11,000' respectively, and are less of a problem.

The notes on the Gladden and Baghdad MOAs say "0600-1900 Monday-Friday; other times by NOTAM." Quail and Turtle say the same, except it's "0700-1700".
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Cool that is another option then. This trip would most likely be made on weekends, but I can keep all these different route options in mind.
 
'Definitely a potentially bumpy trip, especially if done when warm. Early morning is best, if you hang around too long and come back the same day, you'll pay the penalty. And the wind can really howl, especially if there is a front moving through. I'd consider going to Laughlin and spend the night... great airport, free transportation, cheap motels & food.
 
CT4ME said:
'Definitely a potentially bumpy trip, especially if done when warm. Early morning is best, if you hang around too long and come back the same day, you'll pay the penalty. And the wind can really howl, especially if there is a front moving through. I'd consider going to Laughlin and spend the night... great airport, free transportation, cheap motels & food.
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I probably wouldn't do it in the warmer months. I was flying Saturday and just coming back from Chandler at about noon and it was bumpy the whole way back Deer Valley...that would be really obnoxious for a whole 1:30 to 2 hour trip, especially in my slow Cherokee.
 
Here's some other things you can think about as far as SAR is concerned. If ATC radio coverage is poor down lower but FSS has it, make frequent VFR position reports to narrow the search area. This assumes of course you filed and opened a VFR flight plan. Fly IFR, I follow roads. If ya gotta go down, do it where it will be noticed and help can be called.
 
CC268 said:
I would really like to make this flight (KDVT to KHII). My dilemma right now is deciding whether or not to fly direct (lower terrain, which is nice with my slow climbing Cherokee 140) or fly northwest, then west, then southwest to avoid the MOAs (fairly mountainous terrain in this route - at least in regards to my climb rate in the Cherokee).

I have never flown through MOAs before, so I am a little gun shy about it. I would be on Flight Following if possible for the entire flight.

Looking for any feedback, tips, etc
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MOAs are your airspace. No special consideration needed. Restricteds are a different deal. You never need to fly through one of those.
 
citizen5000 said:
MOAs are your airspace. No special consideration needed. Restricteds are a different deal. You never need to fly through one of those.
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+1 As long as you don't mind being a target.;)
 
citizen5000 said:
MOAs are your airspace. No special consideration needed. Restricteds are a different deal. You never need to fly through one of those.
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lancie00 said:
+1 As long as you don't mind being a target.;)
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... And you don't mind sharing airspace with hard-to-see, maneuvering, high-speed tactical jets. Actually they're supposed to suspend their mission (on the taxpayers' dime) while you exercise your constitutional right to traverse the active MOA.
 
Seems to me west out of deer valley over my place (Indian Hills) to Parker then north a bit to HII A tiny jog will avoid the corners of the Gladden MOA. Easy Peasy
 
'Just did a KDVT (Deer Valley) to KIFP (Laughlin/Bullhead) trip last weekend. Great trip. In spite of around 105 degree weather, both ways were silky smooth, because we flew at 8am. MOAs were not an issue... over at 4,500 and back at 5,500. Our route was Wickenburg, Alamo lake, and then follow the Colorado(you can see it from Alamo). 'Plenty of fields, roads, and rough airstrips, in spite of the generally rugged terrain. 'Love flying up the river.

The Laughlin/Bullhead area is a bit quirky, but a great place for an overnight or weekend flying trip. Lots to do, cheap hotels, free/cheap transportation, cheap food, and casinos. If you're a river rat, you can't beat the $55 all-day jet-ski rentals.
 
Go West, stay under Bravo and then over Lake Pleasant. Then NW up the Verde Valley to Havasu. I did the trip two weekends ago on the way back from Sedona and yes it was a little bumpy because I made the trip during the hottest part of the day. IF you want to fly in Arizona in the summer, you're gonna have to deal with the thermal bumps. No way around it. Just embrace it and know that it is only temporary. It is a very scenic trip and you'll be in between the mountains so you can stay lower. I wasn't talking to anyone, just listening to my IPod and it was nice.
 
CT4ME said:
'Just did a KDVT (Deer Valley) to KIFP (Laughlin/Bullhead) trip last weekend. Great trip. In spite of around 105 degree weather, both ways were silky smooth, because we flew at 8am. MOAs were not an issue... over at 4,500 and back at 5,500. Our route was Wickenburg, Alamo lake, and then follow the Colorado(you can see it from Alamo). 'Plenty of fields, roads, and rough airstrips, in spite of the generally rugged terrain. 'Love flying up the river.

The Laughlin/Bullhead area is a bit quirky, but a great place for an overnight or weekend flying trip. Lots to do, cheap hotels, free/cheap transportation, cheap food, and casinos. If you're a river rat, you can't beat the $55 all-day jet-ski rentals.
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This sounds great...seems like a good way to go
 
Timbeck2 said:
Go West, stay under Bravo and then over Lake Pleasant. Then NW up the Verde Valley to Havasu. I did the trip two weekends ago on the way back from Sedona and yes it was a little bumpy because I made the trip during the hottest part of the day. IF you want to fly in Arizona in the summer, you're gonna have to deal with the thermal bumps. No way around it. Just embrace it and know that it is only temporary. It is a very scenic trip and you'll be in between the mountains so you can stay lower. I wasn't talking to anyone, just listening to my IPod and it was nice.
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Hmm different route than I had planed but will have to try it sometime
 
Used to fly it everyday hauling freight to HII. Rarely used Flight following. Just flew direct at 6500. I'm not opposed to flying through the MOA at 8.5 either. It's not illegal
 
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