Deer Valley (KDVT) to Oceanside (KOKB) - which route?

jimhorner said:
Yeah, but high winds at what altitude, from which direction, and at what strength? If the winds are from the coast and screaming at the ridge on which Julian is located, then there will be lots of updrafts on the windward side and lots of turbulence on the leeward side.

Take a look on the day of the flight, and have an out if the turbulence is more than you want to deal with, but I’d say this will give you a good learning experience. You seem to be flying a lot right now, expanding your limitations. This will be a good way for you to practice your decision making skills. Look at the winds (windy.com is a great resource) take a look at the isobars, and then go fly unless things are really bad. Make sure you have an out if it’s worse than expected, but use it as a learning experience. I suspect that, especially if you are flying in the morning, and at 8,500 feet, you’ll be fine.


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Windy.com is great for forecasting and is fairly accurate. I'm not sure where they are pulling their data from but I have been referencing it for the past year and have been impressed. You can also click an airport and it will give you METAR history as well as the TAF if the airport has one and a visual forecast with winds and cloud coverage. You can use the slider along the bottom to look at different days and there is a slider for altitudes to see the forecast at different altitudes. Click the different forecast models in the bottom right and that will give you a better generalized picture.
 
In my archer I would hit
KDVT SHADI JLI VISTA KOKB into my GTN and I would cruise at 10500. If the air is smooth I would go direct to Oceanside after SHADI
 
Skates97 said:
Windy.com is great for forecasting and is fairly accurate. I'm not sure where they are pulling their data from but I have been referencing it for the past year and have been impressed. You can also click an airport and it will give you METAR history as well as the TAF if the airport has one and a visual forecast with winds and cloud coverage. You can use the slider along the bottom to look at different days and there is a slider for altitudes to see the forecast at different altitudes. Click the different forecast models in the bottom right and that will give you a better generalized picture.
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Yeah, windy.com is one of my go-to references when planning a long xc flight. It, http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/zoa/MOBILE/ZOA2.htm, and http://www.aviationweather.gov/ are my go to sites for weather, with occasional looks at The Weather Channel https://weather.com/ for outlook type of stuff. I get my actual briefing via Garmin Pilot. Really miss the textual area forecasts. METARs and TAFs along the route also are looked at, and I also check the SkewTs.


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Skates97 said:
Any particular reason you are going to KOKB instead of KCRQ? Palomar has a nice restaurant on the field with reasonable prices, although they only have 5 transient parking places now so if those are full it's a $20 ramp fee to park at the FBO and go to the restaurant. If the coast is socked in with a marine layer then Ramona KRNM is usually clear if you need to get fuel.

Palomar for Breakfast
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KCRQ has new TSA badge requirements because they have airline service now. Anyone without a badge must be escorted anywhere on the ramp.
 
CC268 said:
That is one thing I have realized in my IR training. The IR system makes flying so easy. It's like having someone holding your hand the entire way lol. If I had an airplane that was more IFR capable and had better performance, IFR would really be the way to go.
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Yep. I file IFR on pretty much all of my long cross country flights, regardless of the weather. It might be CAVU, and I’ll still file just to keep in practice in the system and for the other benefits. Like VFR flight following, you have another pair of eyes helping you, and it also makes all the airspace just go away. Great for flying into the Los Angeles or Phoenix areas.

I don’t use it that much in the San Fancisco area, because it’s my home, and I’m familar with the various landmarks, but if I were unfamilar with the area and flying into the Bay area, I’d do it IFR.

I’m not sure why you would be hesitant to file IFR based on your plane? If the plane is IFR legal, and you are rated, you can file and fly. Now, you may choose not to do a particular flight based on the weather and your plane’s capabilities to deal with the weather, but that is a separate issue.


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jimhorner said:
Yep. I file IFR on pretty much all of my long cross country flights, regardless of the weather. It might be CAVU, and I’ll still file just to keep in practice in the system and for the other benefits. Like VFR flight following, you have another pair of eyes helping you, and it also makes all the airspace just go away. Great for flying into the Los Angeles or Phoenix areas.

I don’t use it that much in the San Fancisco area, because it’s my home, and I’m familar with the various landmarks, but if I were unfamilar with the area and flying into the Bay area, I’d do it IFR.

I’m not sure why you would be hesitant to file IFR based on your plane? If the plane is IFR legal, and you are rated, you can file and fly. Now, you may choose not to do a particular flight based on the weather and your plane’s capabilities to deal with the weather, but that is a separate issue.


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Once I get my IR I will certainly file IFR on certain trips to stay proficient with the system. No doubt. Unfortunately, here in SW (as you know), so many of the MEAs are just out of the performance envelope of my aircraft. If I can make the same trip at 7500 instead of having to up to 9500 or 11,500 I will. Of course the higher winds at higher altitudes can really help my Cherokee or really hurt my Cherokee. I've experienced 80 knots on and IFR cross country in my Cherokee and that just plain sucks. I could have gone down a few thousand feet and maybe avoided some of that wind, but due to the MEAs I was up higher.

If I had a Vans or something with better performance then I would probably file IFR every time lol.
 
CC268 said:
Once I get my IR I will certainly file IFR on certain trips to stay proficient with the system. No doubt. Unfortunately, here in SW (as you know), so many of the MEAs are just out of the performance envelope of my aircraft. If I can make the same trip at 7500 instead of having to up to 9500 or 11,500 I will. Of course the higher winds at higher altitudes can really help my Cherokee or really hurt my Cherokee. I've experienced 80 knots on and IFR cross country in my Cherokee and that just plain sucks. I could have gone down a few thousand feet and maybe avoided some of that wind, but due to the MEAs I was up higher.

If I had a Vans or something with better performance then I would probably file IFR every time lol.
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Ah, I see. Thought you were talking about your avionics suite. Yes, I agree, the MEAs can be a limitation. I’m hoping that more T-routes are put in place. If the requirement to be able to receive VORs is removed, T-routes shold be able to have lower MEAs .

You could always get a Viking... but maybe I’m a bit biased.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/sear...PER+VIKING&listing_id=2267728&s-type=aircraft


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jimhorner said:
Ah, I see. Thought you were talking about your avionics suite. Yes, I agree, the MEAs can be a limitation. I’m hoping that more T-routes are put in place. If the requirement to be able to receive VORs is removed, T-routes shold be able to have lower MEAs .

You could always get a Viking... but maybe I’m a bit biased.

https://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=BELLANCA&model=17-30A+SUPER+VIKING&listing_id=2267728&s-type=aircraft


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Well..that too. I have two VORs - one ILS, one LOC. I don't even have DME. No IFR GPS. So I am very very limited. I am partnered in this airplane with my dad. We bought it for 29K (and I am lucky to have this plane to be honest). I have tried to convince my dad into getting something more IFR capable, even if it was down the road, but I have realized that is a far fetched dream. My dad has always dreamed of an RV9-A, but it's not gonna happen. He hardly flies and my mom hates small airplanes so it is pretty much a double whammy. I've realized if I want to fly cool airplanes I will have to make it a living, cause I certainly won't be able to afford a 100K airplane on an engineering salary.

I enjoy the Cherokee for what it is. It has made a decent IFR trainer despite not having an IFR GPS. It is a fun $100 hamburger plane.

I just wish they would make IFR GPS's more affordable.
 
Timbeck2 said:
One man's extreme can be another's moderate. In any case, that controller needed his ass kicked.
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Agreed, or get the supervisor on ... see below

Heftiger said:
The pilot eventually conceded that the turbulence was “moderate to severe with no loss of control”. So essentially moderate since the distinction between moderate and severe is the presence of momentary loss of control.
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Why can't they just take the effing pirep? I've had El Paso approach ask for a ride report when shooting practice ILS approaches after a SWA reported "heavy TB" , we were in light chop in the same area, a slow 172 compared to something moving fast can make a difference.

And the reverse: Two months ago returning Austin to El Paso, I started getting a tail wind a full 50 miles prior to the ENORMOUS solitary CB directly over Pecos, TX extending to Carlsbad NM (inflow). I deviated way early and was getting great tailwind and thermal ride. Then it suddenly died out abeam Guadalupe Peak (30 nm south) and I thought "BTDT" and throttled back. No sooner do I slow down than I hit a HUGE upset. I get freq changed to El Paso approach and I report it. Approach gives me the "ho hum" treatment ... 5 minutes later a twin finds it, calls approach and states they hit extreme and have 2 injured pax that weren't belted. I knew he was behind me before he hit it and thought for sure approach would warn, but they didn't ...
 
CC268 said:
cause I certainly won't be able to afford a 100K airplane on an engineering salary.
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I have an Engineering degree, but mine says 'Computer' in front of it. The 100k airplane was easy to afford.

It does amuse me that as I've accumulated hours things like a quick trip from KDVT to KOKB just barely registers as requiring a 3 page thread on planning it. Of course numerous trips over JLI probably also contributes to that.
 
chartbundle said:
I have an Engineering degree, but mine says 'Computer' in front of it. The 100k airplane was easy to afford.

It does amuse me that as I've accumulated hours things like a quick trip from KDVT to KOKB just barely registers as requiring a 3 page thread on planning it. Of course numerous trips over JLI probably also contributes to that.
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I'm glad you have found great success in your career and it was easy to afford. I assume you own your own business? At any rate, I find it difficult to believe that any engineer working for a large corporation can easily afford a 100k airplane, but I could be wrong.
 
chartbundle said:
I have an Engineering degree, but mine says 'Computer' in front of it. The 100k airplane was easy to afford.

It does amuse me that as I've accumulated hours things like a quick trip from KDVT to KOKB just barely registers as requiring a 3 page thread on planning it. Of course numerous trips over JLI probably also contributes to that.
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Well by golly, ya wanna fork over that Grey Poupon? :rolleyes:
 
CC268 said:
I'm glad you have found great success in your career and it was easy to afford. I assume you own your own business? At any rate, I find it difficult to believe that any engineer working for a large corporation can easily afford a 100k airplane, but I could be wrong.
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I work for a 20 person consulting company, our clients are generally huge companies though. I know how poorly I'd do as a manager so there's no way in heck I'd want to work for myself and have to do management and sales and finance and HR and actual work.


Timbeck2 said:
Well by golly, ya wanna fork over that Grey Poupon? :rolleyes:
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How do you think I can afford a plane? I didn't even have Mustard in the house until my parents came to visit for the eclipse a few months ago.
 
chartbundle said:
I work for a 20 person consulting company, our clients are generally huge companies though. I know how poorly I'd do as a manager so there's no way in heck I'd want to work for myself and have to do management and sales and finance and HR and actual work.



How do you think I can afford a plane? I didn't even have Mustard in the house until my parents came to visit for the eclipse a few months ago.
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Ahh well your probably much smarter than I.
 
CC268.... it is always good to ask about things that are not known.... I will be flying into Tucson next month... for the first time.. have flown into Ryan a lot and that is a no brainer, but no rental car and my Inlaws no longer drive so I need a place to get a car.. When we were going to Idaho for the Eclipse, which was my longest xcountry to date, I spent an hour with my CFI going over all my planning, what my contingency plans were, and what to do if that did not work out.,.. the whole hour he kept telling me I was over thinking this, and that I was ready to go with no problems... and he was right ... no problems!... But I most likely will talk about Tucson before going there.... what pattern to expect, how to handle ground control, where to taxi to, where to park, who to talk to when getting ready to leave.. where to do a runup before takeoff... all those things that should be a concern but are because I have not been there yet it is...

I will be off work tomorrow so will be flying... maybe up to Big Bear, or over to Apple Valley, or maybe Romona as I have not gone there yet.,.. Warner Springs maybe fun also...
 
Glenn D said:
I will be flying into Tucson next month... for the first time.. have flown into Ryan a lot and that is a no brainer, but no rental car and my Inlaws no longer drive so I need a place to get a car.
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I have heard (and maybe Timbeck2 and other Tucsonians can chime in here) that KTUS is not very welcoming of light piston GA. I do know you can arrange a rental through the FBO at Marana (KAVQ), northwest of town, though.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Wow, you make Class C sound like its a big deal. Not trying to belittle you at all but it isn't all that much different than your Class D now - better actually because you get better service.

Edit: that was in response to Glenn.
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Well,,, it is all about perspective.... I learned to fly at uncontrolled airports, my dad did not like talking on the radio, so that kind of stuck with me, and when I got back into flying a few years ago was the first time that I have been around controled fields and airspace.. So yes, Class C is a bigger deal to me, but I am getting better at understanding the airspace and what is needed, and since getting my HAM radio ticket during my non-flying years have gotten used to radio usage and quite enjoy it now...

My biggest concern is "fitting in".. being in the right place at the right time so that I do not screw up others doing the right thing!.. As a new student pilot, I tried flying into Bracket one day,,, a day after going there with a CFI, and did something wrong,,, did not understand what the controller was asking me to do, and about lost it... was not flying the airplane do it was not good... that has stuck with me for 30 years... So Timbeck2, I find your postings most helpful,,, you understand what some of my concerns are without even knowing that I have them!... Thanks for your input on so many topics...

Pilawt said:
I have heard (and maybe Timbeck2 and other Tucsonians can chime in here) that KTUS is not very welcoming of light piston GA. I do know you can arrange a rental through the FBO at Marana (KAVQ), northwest of town, though.
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Had not thought of Marana,,,, thought it was more of just a boneyard and repair station.... will look at that as another possibility... Thanks....
 
Pilawt said:
I have heard (and maybe Timbeck2 and other Tucsonians can chime in here) that KTUS is not very welcoming of light piston GA. I do know you can arrange a rental through the FBO at Marana (KAVQ), northwest of town, though.
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Wow Jeff, that's the first I've ever heard that. I'm based out of Tucson KTUS and quite a few of the Tucson tower and TRACON controllers used to work with or for me at Davis Monthan so I know them and they know me and my tail number. Most here have a problem with one or two of the TRACON controllers (ones I don't know) being snippy with pilots but I've never heard of any of the tower controllers being anything but helpful. I will continue to keep an ear out for anyone not welcoming of GA aircraft but it comes as a surprise to me.
 
Glenn D said:
CC268.... it is always good to ask about things that are not known.... I will be flying into Tucson next month... for the first time.. have flown into Ryan a lot and that is a no brainer, but no rental car and my Inlaws no longer drive so I need a place to get a car.. When we were going to Idaho for the Eclipse, which was my longest xcountry to date, I spent an hour with my CFI going over all my planning, what my contingency plans were, and what to do if that did not work out.,.. the whole hour he kept telling me I was over thinking this, and that I was ready to go with no problems... and he was right ... no problems!... But I most likely will talk about Tucson before going there.... what pattern to expect, how to handle ground control, where to taxi to, where to park, who to talk to when getting ready to leave.. where to do a runup before takeoff... all those things that should be a concern but are because I have not been there yet it is...

I will be off work tomorrow so will be flying... maybe up to Big Bear, or over to Apple Valley, or maybe Romona as I have not gone there yet.,.. Warner Springs maybe fun also...
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Well like your CFI and from what I've read, I can tell you that you're already overthinking it. :)

Tucson has three runways, 11L or 29R is the big one used for the airliners and the F-16s from the Tucson Guard unit. 11R/29L is used for the GA aircraft and the tower controllers are really helpful in your "fitting in" to the pattern. Runway 3/21 is used if the cross winds get too high or in my case, my hangar is just off the approach end of 21 so I use it for take off and 3 for landing if they can work me in. If not, no big deal, just a longer taxi. Just like any other airport you go to, you'll need to get the frequencies and plan accordingly. Since you're a student, your CFI will be with you and I think you're going to realize that it isn't as big a deal to fly in and out of class C than you thought.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Wow Jeff, that's the first I've ever heard that.
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I should have been more specific -- what I had heard (second-hand; I've not been in there myself in a dozen years) is that the FBO is not light-GA-friendly, at least from the standpoint of fees. My comment had nothing to do with ATC. In any event, my intent was not to knock KTUS, only to mention the availability of an alternate. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Well like your CFI and from what I've read, I can tell you that you're already overthinking it. :)

Tucson has three runways, 11L or 29R is the big one used for the airliners and the F-16s from the Tucson Guard unit. 11R/29L is used for the GA aircraft and the tower controllers are really helpful in your "fitting in" to the pattern. Runway 3/21 is used if the cross winds get too high or in my case, my hangar is just off the approach end of 21 so I use it for take off and 3 for landing if they can work me in. If not, no big deal, just a longer taxi. Just like any other airport you go to, you'll need to get the frequencies and plan accordingly. Since you're a student, your CFI will be with you and I think you're going to realize that it isn't as big a deal to fly in and out of class C than you thought.
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Well, I am a 200 hour student!... will be flying in with my family on board, and just want to do it right....

I do still fly with a CFI just to check up on myself, and improve skills.... may ask more about Tucson in another thread.... and I agree that all the controllers i have talked with have been very helpful... if I think I did something stupid I do call the tower just to find out what I should have done and they are always positive and provide positive feedback...

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Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions, Glenn. I'll be glad to help.

So I'm confused, you are a 200 hour student who flies with your family? Or are you just being self-degrading and although you have your PPL you're still (like all of us) a student?
 
Pilawt said:
I should have been more specific -- what I had heard (second-hand; I've not been in there myself in a dozen years) is that the FBO is not light-GA-friendly, at least from the standpoint of fees. My comment had nothing to do with ATC. In any event, my intent was not to knock KTUS, only to mention the availability of an alternate. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Ohhhhhhh okay, that makes more sense. Since I'm based there I don't use the FBOs or know any of their fees. My hangar is right next to Million Air but I see a lot of people go to Atlantic and Premier to a lesser extent.
 
Glenn D said:
CC268.... it is always good to ask about things that are not known.... I will be flying into Tucson next month... for the first time.. have flown into Ryan a lot and that is a no brainer, but no rental car and my Inlaws no longer drive so I need a place to get a car.. When we were going to Idaho for the Eclipse, which was my longest xcountry to date, I spent an hour with my CFI going over all my planning, what my contingency plans were, and what to do if that did not work out.,.. the whole hour he kept telling me I was over thinking this, and that I was ready to go with no problems... and he was right ... no problems!... But I most likely will talk about Tucson before going there.... what pattern to expect, how to handle ground control, where to taxi to, where to park, who to talk to when getting ready to leave.. where to do a runup before takeoff... all those things that should be a concern but are because I have not been there yet it is...

I will be off work tomorrow so will be flying... maybe up to Big Bear, or over to Apple Valley, or maybe Romona as I have not gone there yet.,.. Warner Springs maybe fun also...
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Honestly just tell them (KTUS) that you know Timbeck2 and they will probably give you straight in and greet you with wine and cheese.

I was at Yuma a few weekends back and they're taxi ways were all sorts of screwy, so I just told the ground controller I wanted progressive taxi to Million Air...easy.

And Marana is great, Pinal is the boneyard you are thinking of. They are right next to each other. Flown to both a handful of times.

Are you flying a Cherokee? Or is that an Archer?
 
Timbeck2 said:
Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions, Glenn. I'll be glad to help.

So I'm confused, you are a 200 hour student who flies with your family? Or are you just being self-degrading and although you have your PPL you're still (like all of us) a student?
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Will PM some questions.... and yes,,,, getting my PPL about 40 years ago, and then being out of flying for about 30, I am the forever student.... The CFI that I use is to help me expand flying around the LA area, and to answer questions when I need some help.. He also goes along to help me push my comfort zone as I still feel rusty on the edges of flight control....

CC268 said:
Honestly just tell them (KTUS) that you know Timbeck2 and they will probably give you straight in and greet you with wine and cheese.

I was at Yuma a few weekends back and they're taxi ways were all sorts of screwy, so I just told the ground controller I wanted progressive taxi to Million Air...easy.

And Marana is great, Pinal is the boneyard you are thinking of. They are right next to each other. Flown to both a handful of times.

Are you flying a Cherokee? Or is that an Archer?
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Ok, now I really need to look at the charts more!... did not know that Pinal and Marana were different!.. will look into that.

I have a 1967 Cherokee 140 that was re-powered in 1971 with an O-360, and per the 337 form, " converted to a 180"... so it is a light hot rod... and at 1298 lbs empty with 2400 max it will tote a load!. only 1 radio, and I only fly day, VFR... it is a fun plane and for the 400 mile max range I use it for it is perfect.
 
Glenn D said:
Will PM some questions.... and yes,,,, getting my PPL about 40 years ago, and then being out of flying for about 30, I am the forever student.... The CFI that I use is to help me expand flying around the LA area, and to answer questions when I need some help.. He also goes along to help me push my comfort zone as I still feel rusty on the edges of flight control....



Ok, now I really need to look at the charts more!... did not know that Pinal and Marana were different!.. will look into that.

I have a 1967 Cherokee 140 that was re-powered in 1971 with an O-360, and per the 337 form, " converted to a 180"... so it is a light hot rod... and at 1298 lbs empty with 2400 max it will tote a load!. only 1 radio, and I only fly day, VFR... it is a fun plane and for the 400 mile max range I use it for it is perfect.
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Ah that is nice you got a 180. My dads been to Big Bear in our 140, but not sure I’d attempt to go there with two people in our plane
 
CC268 said:
I'm glad you have found great success in your career and it was easy to afford. I assume you own your own business? At any rate, I find it difficult to believe that any engineer working for a large corporation can easily afford a 100k airplane, but I could be wrong.
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Depends - start young, no family, no debt, live in an affordable area, easy. All opposite of my situation. But I was able to partner in a Bonanza for a few years. Get the right partner and that's the way to go.
 
jkaduk said:
Depends - start young, no family, no debt, live in an affordable area, easy. All opposite of my situation. But I was able to partner in a Bonanza for a few years. Get the right partner and that's the way to go.
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Yea I agree having a GOOD partner would be a great way to go. I don't have any debt and no kids. I guess that is a decent start.
 
Hmm...NOAA is showing patchy fog and cloudy for Oceanside tomorrow...
 
CC268 said:
Hmm...NOAA is showing patchy fog and cloudy for Oceanside tomorrow...
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jkaduk said:
Go to Ramona or Fallbrook and wait it out.
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Or stop short in French Valley (F70) and have breakfast while you wait for it to clear if needed. It's a nice little airport with a nice restaurant on the field.
 
Flew over Julian yesterday. Wind about 20 to 25 kts. Caught a couple of big hits on the lee side otherwise not too bad. A36.
 
Skates97 said:
So did you make the flight?
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No not this weekend. Hopefully sometime soon. Usually make IFR cross countries on the weekend, but I will get there one of these days
 
Pilawt said:
If there’s a terminal forecast for KONT for surface winds out of the north or east of 15 knots or better, there’s a clue that Banning and Cajon will be affected by Santa Anas. If winds like that are also forecast at KLGB, then it’s likely to be a howler through all the passes. Santa Anas usually last 2 to 5 days.

:eek:

It might not even be that windy at Palm Springs, Victorville or Palmdale; Santa Anas happen when the pressure differential between the high deserts and the L.A. Basin force winds through the coastal passes like the nozzle of a fire hose. The air rapidly descending from the high (3000' MSL) deserts to the sea-level L.A. Basin also heats up and dries out, making it dangerous fire weather. If you live downwind of areas of dry brush, you sleep with one eye open and have valuables ready to gather up and throw in the back of the car.
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Sadly, today is a perfect example:

KPSP 051853Z 35006KT 10SM CLR 18/M15 A3025
KVCV 051915Z AUTO 04011G14KT 10SM CLR 09/M16 A3030
KSBD 051850Z 00000KT 07SM FEW150 17/M14 A3014 [KSBD is just 18 nm east of KONT]
KONT 051853Z 05019G37KT 10SM VCBLDU FEW250 18/M19 A3012
KLGB 051853Z 07016G22KT 020V100 10SM CLR 21/M15 A3011
KVNY 051858Z 02023G31KT 5SM FU BLDU OVC029 17/M18 A3013
KCMA 051855Z 07023G35KT 10SM CLR 20/M16 A3016 RMK AO2 PK WND 07041/1815
 
It's interesting with the Santa Ana's to see the airports above the passes with little to no wind and below the passes with 30-40 knot winds. It's been blowing all week and is supposed to continue through tomorrow. This was from yesterday morning. The further you get away from the canyons the more the wind dies down.

Screenshot_20171205-063143.png

Screenshot_20171205-060123.png
 
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