Death of the Corvette

P.S. They also don’t care about airplanes. Some have asked how fast I can fly to Vegas and at what cost. Once they hear it’s way more than $99/round trip... that’s the end of the airplane questions. Ha.
 
denverpilot said:
P.S. They also don’t care about airplanes. Some have asked how fast I can fly to Vegas and at what cost. Once they hear it’s way more than $99/round trip... that’s the end of the airplane questions. Ha.
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Yup! Our airplanes are the manual transmissions of the air travel world.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I think there are some people missing my point. I am not making the John Henry argument that I am better than the machine. No doubt that if you put two cars - one with a proper, good DSG and one with me in them, the DSG will do better than me. Or substitute me for one of the best drivers in the world who makes me look like an amateur - no doubt, the DGS can beat that person, at least most of the time. The same is true for my Ram. I will fully admit that the automatics, especially the Aisin, can do effectively every aspect of shifting better than I can for my manual 6-speed.

Of course, these are street cars. I would bet that fewer than 5% of them ever get on the track, at least with any consistency, whether it's test-n-tune at the drag strip, a generic track night, or actual competition. Fewer than 0.1% of those sold in the US will go to Nurburgring.

And my Ram is something I drive. I want to enjoy it. I'm not trying to win any races or any trophies, just like most of us.

That's my point with all of this. A lot of the replies talk about the technical advantages of automatics. More speeds and quicker shifting makes better acceleration, better use of the engine's torque band, consistency, etc. I'm not arguing any of that. I'm arguing the enjoyment of the drive.

I've had a 30 minute commute for my career. I've generally wanted houses about that far from work because I enjoy the drive and want to enjoy it. I also have chosen houses in such a place that the drive will be more enjoyable as opposed to sitting in traffic. But even when I've had times where my commute involved sitting in traffic, driving further distances, I still prefer the manual. That continues to get harder and h



That's actually more encouraging, although the Corvette is of course no longer available with a manual. Those are mostly cars I'm not interested in buying, but a few on there that get my attention.



And that is certainly a good reason to go with an automatic, and part of why I'm not opposed to vehicles of any sort being offered with an automatic. I've thought about what I would do if I lost function of one of my limbs. If I lose a leg I can make a complex air actuated clutch setup that I could put on the shifter. But loss of hand function gets harder to deal with an still shift.



Come now, I've not said that. I'm building the Cobra from scratch and could add in such things if I wanted, and I'm not doing that.

However I have thought about purposely building a vehicle that is as complex to drive as possible after the Cobra.
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It may have been the dramatic title of this thread that got them thinking that way. Quite clearly, the Corvette is not dead, it's just dead to you. That may be a good thing, back when Cobras were in production, they were mortal enemies on the race track.

There had been some hope that there would be a manual transmission available later. Corvette chief engineer says nope. If you're a manual transmission stalwart, you may not want to read that link. He also sites the MT take rate for the current model at 15%.

Another sign of the times: Mini M/T take rate at 11%.

Here too: Golf R loses its MT option in some markets.

I believe that the market has spoken.

I'm looking at getting something I can do track days with, I really don't like using a rental car. I'd like to get a manual transmission BRZ, but my wife may object since she can't (actually won't) drive it. Another option would be a Cayman, but I'd be getting an older one and the cost of maintenance would likely be high. The other issue is that I'd probably get the PDK in that car. I enjoy driving a manual transmission car, but the shifts are so slow, and the way the PDK snaps off shifts in a couple tenths of a second is intoxicating. Also, I'm getting older and having guaranteed shifts gives me more focus to just drive the corner while on track.

My wife would also prefer the Porsche.
 
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asicer said:
Given that DSG is sequential, 4-1 downshifts might spoil the magic.
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Actually, dual-clutch gearboxes can go from any gear to any gear. Not too many sequentials available, except in motorcycles, and they are manual.
 
denverpilot said:
Well I really meant the folks who buy similar things and have the capital to do so. Your Cobra build “counts” in that group because even if the Corvette doesn’t “do it” for you, Chevy is still only marketing to that crowd. They know they won’t get everyone in it, but you at least looked.
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This is true. I'd looked at a Viper, but decided it wouldn't quite do it for me - mostly due to a V10 and Chrysler interior quality circa 1990. That said, a year ago I also wouldn't have looked at a $60k toy car. The Cobra will be much cheaper, but of course that's all outright cash. In reality I could've financed a new Corvette and spent far less per month (although obviously more long term). But the Cobra is also about the experience of building a car as much as anything.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
This is true. I'd looked at a Viper, but decided it wouldn't quite do it for me - mostly due to a V10 and Chrysler interior quality circa 1990. That said, a year ago I also wouldn't have looked at a $60k toy car. The Cobra will be much cheaper, but of course that's all outright cash. In reality I could've financed a new Corvette and spent far less per month (although obviously more long term). But the Cobra is also about the experience of building a car as much as anything.
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Plus it's your car, in a way that no factory built car can be. I was out running yesterday, and saw one going down the road. This one was a dark blue with a touch of purple, and it looked just right. Sounded nice too.
 
FormerHangie said:
Plus it's your car, in a way that no factory built car can be.
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And that's the biggest thing. As you know from reading my thread, I am really, really enjoying that process. We'll see what I think once it's built, but I do believe I am going to be very happy with the result.

But it won't have factory levels of fit and finish, no way no how. And that's part of why I'd also like to own a Ferrari or a Lambo one day.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Actually, dual-clutch gearboxes can go from any gear to any gear. Not too many sequentials available, except in motorcycles, and they are manual.
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My dual clutch has to cycle through the gears going g from say 6th to 2nd gear. It's pretty fast but it does have to cycle down through them
 
I'm not a 1/4 mile driver. I'm more a state road 614 driver. I need something fast, low, with good braking, too.
 

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NJP_MAN said:
My dual clutch has to cycle through the gears going g from say 6th to 2nd gear. It's pretty fast but it does have to cycle down through them
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Is that a physical limitation in the transmission or a software limitation in how it's programmed to shift?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Is that a physical limitation in the transmission or a software limitation in how it's programmed to shift?
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In manual mode its much slower so it might be a software limit. In auto mode it seems to cycle passed the gears but it still takes time and wont jump from 6th to 2nd in one smooth action
 
Fiveslide said:
I'm not a 1/4 mile driver. I'm more a state road 614 driver. I need something fast, low, with good braking, too.
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Torque, good low RPM power, and hellacious brakes, is often what we all really need vs want. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Is that a physical limitation in the transmission or a software limitation in how it's programmed to shift?
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I think a BMW model or two can skip gears, but isn't that because it has a clutch per gear, rather than just dual clutch?
 
Fiveslide said:
I think a BMW model or two can skip gears, but isn't that because it has a clutch per gear, rather than just dual clutch?
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Haven't a clue, which is why I asked the question. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Haven't a clue, which is why I asked the question. :)
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I think I read something on an automotive article about it. Each gear was immediately ready to be engaged and could skip on the downshift. Might have been about a Mercedes, the article.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Is that a physical limitation in the transmission or a software limitation in how it's programmed to shift?
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I suspect it's software, mostly. I think a DCT should be physically able to shift to any gear that's on the other shaft. In other words, if it's a seven speed box, and you're in seventh gear, it should be able to go to gears 6, 4 and 2. To shift to a gear on the shaft that is currently driving the car, it would have to release both clutches, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a dual clutch.

Since the car doesn't know when you're going to let off the brake pedal, the programming should keep you in a proper gear at all times, which would preclude gear skipping.
 
denverpilot said:
Torque, good low RPM power, and hellacious brakes, is often what we all really need vs want. :)
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You like Squirrel Spur road, huh? One of the scariest rides I did on was when a friend and I took a couple 50cc DUI scooters up and down it. Took about an hour to climb the mountain, minutes to come down. Those little scooters do not belong on that road!
 
Zeldman said:
When I was a teenager I did work for a rancher that had lost his right arm. Not pretty. It looked as if someone used a giant pair of scissors to cut off his arm just a few inches below the shoulder. He still drove the big ranch trucks, no power steering and several forward gears. His personal ride was a '68 C-20 pickup, no power steering and 4 speed transmission.

And when I first met him he still threw hay bales up on the 18 wheeler trailer, but just to the floor, not all the way to the top.

So I don't want to hear ''my manual driving days may be over''. If you want to drive a stick you will find a way.
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My younger brother has 1 arm that is missing about 1 1/2-2 inches below elbow (born that way). When he went to the DMV for his first driver's license, they put a restriction on his license to only drive automatic transmission vehicles. He questioned them on what the restriction code was. When told what it was, he told them to remove it. He had to show them that he could drive a manual. The vehicle he drove from 16-26 years old was a a 5 speed Nissan pickup.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
And that's the biggest thing. As you know from reading my thread, I am really, really enjoying that process. We'll see what I think once it's built, but I do believe I am going to be very happy with the result.

But it won't have factory levels of fit and finish, no way no how. And that's part of why I'd also like to own a Ferrari or a Lambo one day.
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Why — to make the Cobra look that much better? :)
 
JD318 said:
My younger brother has 1 arm that is missing about 1 1/2-2 inches below elbow (born that way). When he went to the DMV for his first driver's license, they put a restriction on his license to only drive automatic transmission vehicles. He questioned them on what the restriction code was. When told what it was, he told them to remove it. He had to show them that he could drive a manual. The vehicle he drove from 16-26 years old was a a 5 speed Nissan pickup.
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Good for him. F*** bureaucrats telling people with any disability what they can or can’t do.

I know damn well I can fly an airplane right now if I get the drugs out of my system, even if it makes me cringe. The BS messages my damaged nerves are sending to my brain from my right hand (mostly) are just that. BS. I really can ignore it if I have to. But it’s not “fun”. And since we need to wait for a more solid diagnosis for a couple of years anyway, I’ll take the stupid drugs. I hate drugs.

Sorry. Again. Back to cars.

I still want a sleeper. AMG wagon with at least 500 HP that looks like it’s for carting dogs and groceries around. Ha. And yeah, it would have an old school automatic in it. Oh well. It’s only real purpose would be to surprise the kids off the stop light with... AND cart around the 90 lb dog and his 45 lb “little” buddy. Hahahahaha.
 
denverpilot said:
I still want a sleeper. AMG wagon with at least 500 HP that looks like it’s for carting dogs and groceries around. Ha. And yeah, it would have an old school automatic in it. Oh well. It’s only real purpose would be to surprise the kids off the stop light with... AND cart around the 90 lb dog and his 45 lb “little” buddy. Hahahahaha.
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Not a wagon, but I'm starting to think about selling the E55. Interested?
 
I like manual transmissions, learned to drive in 1968 in a 1963 Rambler with 3 on the tree and overdrive. I had a mixture of manual transmissions and automatics for years. My daily driver for a number of years was a 1988 1/2 Ford Escort with a manual. It was replaced with a 1999 Jeep Wrangler with an automatic (which I still have, 20 years later). Why the switch? You need three hands to shift a manual when you're talking on the ham rig. One hand on the wheel, one hand holding the mic and a third to shift gears. Hence the automatic in the Jeep. I don't recall a manual being an option in 2013 when we bought the Ford Escape. Our daughter (now 39) never did learn to drive a manual, but our son loved his Mustang with one. Different strokes, I guess.
 
denverpilot said:
Sorry. Again. Back to cars.

I still want a sleeper. AMG wagon with at least 500 HP that looks like it’s for carting dogs and groceries around. Ha. And yeah, it would have an old school automatic in it. Oh well. It’s only real purpose would be to surprise the kids off the stop light with... AND cart around the 90 lb dog and his 45 lb “little” buddy. Hahahahaha.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a19056498/2018-mercedes-amg-e63-s-wagon-test-review/
 
Even the pool of used manual transmissions is likely smaller than it should be. Thanks cash for clunkers.
 
You lot are going to get me in trouble with the wife. I've been browsing mustangs. I really want another 94-95, for the 5.0, but there just aren't any clean ones for sale within 200 miles. That might be a good thing and keep my money in my pocket. Or I might end up with a newer 4.6, with a stick of course.
 
Fiveslide said:
You lot are going to get me in trouble with the wife. I've been browsing mustangs. I really want another 94-95, for the 5.0, but there just aren't any clean ones for sale within 200 miles. That might be a good thing and keep my money in my pocket. Or I might end up with a newer 4.6, with a stick of course.
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I can sell you what's left of my parts car - it's a '95 Mustang. Missing an engine, transmission, and rear axle, but I've got some parts* from all three of those that I can include in the purchase! :D

I think if I were to go with a Mustang I'd want to take the time to find one of the Cobra R models.

*the broken ones
 
-KLB- said:
Even the pool of used manual transmissions is likely smaller than it should be. Thanks cash for clunkers.
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Go here and at the bottom of the page is a list of the most traded in vehicles, and the most purchased. You tell me which list is more likely to consist of manual transmission cars.

Probably 99% of those cars that were scrapped then would have been scrapped by now anyway, they'd be 18+ years old.
 
FormerHangie said:
Probably 99% of those cars that were scrapped then would have been scrapped by now anyway, they'd be 18+ years old.
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Around DFW, there is an odd market for interesting cars over 25 years old, so you can mod them as you want, and not have to pass emissions regulations.
 
Pilawt said:
Heresy!!!

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:p
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My sister had one of those. It was a semiautomatic, no clutch but a three speed manual shifter. First gear was a granny gear that almost never got used. The directions were to put it into first and accelerate (and I use that term loosely), then at around 25 mph, pull it into second.

To say it was slow was an understatement. 0-60 was probably more that 20 seconds.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I can sell you what's left of my parts car - it's a '95 Mustang. Missing an engine, transmission, and rear axle, but I've got some parts* from all three of those that I can include in the purchase! :D

I think if I were to go with a Mustang I'd want to take the time to find one of the Cobra R models.

*the broken ones
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I definitely want something more immediately drivable than anything you could sell me! ;)

I definitely don't have Cobra R money to spend either! I'd settle for a clean, no-accident GT with less than 150,000 and a stick. $5-$9k, tops
 
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FormerHangie said:
My sister had one of those. It was a semiautomatic, no clutch but a three speed manual shifter. First gear was a granny gear that almost never got used. The directions were to put it into first and accelerate (and I use that term loosely), then at around 25 mph, pull it into second.

To say it was slow was an understatement. 0-60 was probably more that 20 seconds.
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I always used low as 1st gear in mine. The performance still wasn't good, but more tolerable than the way they were supposed to be driven.
 
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