DCA 60nm zone

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Dr. O

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denny
Planning a flight from KHYX Saginaw Michigan to either Summit County, De, or to KEVY, Middletown, De, the first weekend of June... To attend a C-Dory boat gathering on Chesapeake Bay at Lankford Marina just Southwest of CHestertown, Md...

It will be a direct line from Saginaw to either to Summit County, or then hook south to EVY... At any rate, I will pass just North of Baltimore, and just clear the restricted zone R4001 at Phillips AFB by a mile or so... It looks to me that I am clear of the 60nm DCA zone that requires me to take the training course (though I will try to get around to it just in case weather forces me into Baltimore, etc..) I don't see that 60nm zone depicted on my chart, so if anyone can verify that...

Anyway, suggestions from the group on what to watch for or know about will be cheerfully entertained (I do a mean soft shoe routine)...

I don't see any public airports closer to the marina than the two I mention, which will have a car rental, then over an hour on the road to get to the marina (ugh)... Local info would be appreciated if anyone on here is a local...

I have to say that this is my first encounter with the airspace grabbed by our wimpy politicians... My usual travels go nowhere near DC... My normal flight planning is to look at the IFR/VFR weather depiction on DUATS (the one with the little red and blue symbols) check the TFR's, saddle up and just go... Flight planning takes all of 90 seconds, requires no scribbling on paper, etc... But this crap around DC is looking to be a real pain for a guy like me with habits dating way back to when flying was fun......
 
I recommend you take the 30-45 minutes and take the ASF or FAA safety course online. It's good information to be aware of when flying in the area you are planning, especially when so close to it.

You can see the extent of the SFRA speed ring on the Washington sectional by the white DCA VOR DME 60nm band, with a blue line. This is just to the right of the R-4001A airspace you are looking at.

The Inner heavy blue line with equal spaced squares is the extent of the SFRA that you cannot enter without filing a SFRA flight plan and entering through a gate, unless you have a IFR flight plan and are flying IFR, then you are already talking and squalking the whole time with ATC.

Watch the P-40/R-4009 area, and the Baltimore Class B airspace, and also the R-4001A/B spaces to the east of Baltimore.
 
The 60nm ring within which you must have taken the training and obey the VFR speed limit is shown on the Washington Sectional as describe above. Start by taking the DC SFRA training course, which you can find at http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx?categoryId=11. Even if your path just clears the SFRA (and it may not -- the 60nm ring extends a few miles northeast of the northeast edge of R-4001), you would be unwise not to invest the 40 minutes or so it takes to complete that course -- there's too much chance of a problem if you don't.

As for R-4001, Potomac Approach often allows transit of this area if the Army isn't doing anything in it. Contact them on 125.52 to make that request.

BTW, Summit Airport is KEVY. There are a couple of other airports slightly closer to Chestertown (like Ridgely KRJD and Delaware Airpark 33N), but I don't think you'll find much in the way of a rental car at either. The other choice would be Easton KESN, to the south, and you can get whatever you need there.

As for flight planning, if you're going IFR, there's no difference with the SFRA. It's only for VFR operations that you have to do something extra/different. But the on-line course explains all that.

However, I would question whether one can obtain sufficient weather information in 90 seconds, or by looking only at the weather depiction chart and TFR data, to safely fly a cross-country trip, no less meet the requirements of 91.103. Checking forecasts, NOTAMs, etc, seems prudent if you're going anywhere beyond visual range of your departure airport, and that takes more than 90 seconds.
 
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Thanks for the comments... I will likely stop for a leg stretch and then just file IFR for last 150 miles or so to EVY... Seems like it solves the issue of 60 nm. SFRA, etc. with the lest effort on my part...
 
Dr. O said:
Thanks for the comments... I will likely stop for a leg stretch and then just file IFR for last 150 miles or so to EVY... Seems like it solves the issue of 60 nm. SFRA, etc. with the lest effort on my part...
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It does not, however, solve the issue of the required training if you cancel IFR while inside the blue ring. I strongly suggest doing the training!
 
Denny the training is on line and very simple. Also Summit and KEVY are one and the same!
 
OK, finally managed to find the time to go to the airport and dig out the charts and plan the flight so I will be clear of the 60nm ring at all times...
It is possible to be pushed inside the ring due to wx so I have doing the online course on my agenda...
I will likely file IFR for the last leg of the flight if there are any haze or weather issues - however I can't think of any reason I would voluntarily cancel IFR while in DCA airspace, as was suggested...
Yes, EVY is Summit - fat fingered that one real good...
A fresh set of approach plates, IFR Low Level Enroute, and VFR, charts are on their way here... The GPS had a fresh data set down loaded today... So the belt and suspenders are in place...
The plane is sked for a pitot/static check next week and the altimeter was just certified and the plane has a fresh annual signed off...
We have a reservation at Tullalah's on Main Street in Rock Hall, Md. for the Bankhead suite...
The car is reserved...
This little trip is only gonna cost about a zillion dollars...

denny-o
 
Sounds Great! Keep in mind, the 60nm ring really doesn't pose any specific limitations or anything on your flight, it's a speed ring, but GA planes really don't have to worry about 250 knots.

Glad to hear you are making the flight,... but I have to correct you on one statement....

This little trip is only gonna cost about a zillion dollars...
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it's Priceless :D :rolleyes:

And, I should have said it earlier, Welcome to the Pilots of America! Check out the Cool Places to Fly forum and meet up with some others, especially since 6Y9 in September is out your way.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Sounds Great! Keep in mind, the 60nm ring really doesn't pose any specific limitations or anything on your flight, it's a speed ring, but GA planes really don't have to worry about 250 knots.

Glad to hear you are making the flight,... but I have to correct you on one statement....
Click to expand...

230 knots. :smile:

Just so everyone understands, the course isn't just about speed limits within the 60 NM ring. Any VFR operation within 60 NM requires the course to be completed. Also, it's not just for PIC's, any required SIC must also take the course.

As you, Ron and others have stated, just take the course if you will be anywhere close to DCA

gary
 
Rob Schaffer said:
...the 60nm ring really doesn't pose any specific limitations or anything on your flight,
Click to expand...
It does impose a limitation if you haven't taken one of the DC ADIZ/SFRA courses -- no VFR inside that ring without it.
it's a speed ring, but GA planes really don't have to worry about 250 knots.
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As noted above, the VFR speed limit is 230 knots indicated airspeed.
 
Rob, thanks for the welcome mat...
Ron, thanks for the tip to do the course - hearing you 5 x 5...
As far as the 230 kt indicated - Fat Albert the Apache cannot even fantasize that number...

denny-o
 
Rob Schaffer said:
I recommend you take the 30-45 minutes and take the ASF or FAA safety course online. It's good information to be aware of when flying in the area you are planning, especially when so close to it.
Click to expand...

+1. Denny seems pretty convinced. Just in case: the training also comes in handy when POTUS comes to visit your own neck of the woods. For the most part the same rules apply (without the 60nm speed limit ring - but just wait!) so it's helpful to have them in your repertoire.
 
Joe B said:
+1. Denny seems pretty convinced. Just in case: the training also comes in handy when POTUS comes to visit your own neck of the woods. For the most part the same rules apply (without the 60nm speed limit ring - but just wait!) so it's helpful to have them in your repertoire.
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Flying back from Wings today we were monitoring Guard, and while still over PA were hearing the AWACS plane over South Bend, Indiana, tell one plane after another that they were about to violate a restricted area (Presidential TFR), followed about 20 seconds later with the announcement that they had violated the restricted area. Most of them were squawking 1200 at pattern altitude, though we heard one at 5000.
 
gprellwitz said:
Flying back from Wings today we were monitoring Guard, and while still over PA were hearing the AWACS plane over South Bend, Indiana, tell one plane after another that they were about to violate a restricted area (Presidential TFR), followed about 20 seconds later with the announcement that they had violated the restricted area. Most of them were squawking 1200 at pattern altitude, though we heard one at 5000.
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What's it going to take to get all pilots to read and heed NOTAMs?:mad2:
 
Ron Levy said:
What's it going to take to get all pilots to read and heed NOTAMs?:mad2:
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Dunno, Ron. The Crawford, TX P space is on the chart with the big white circle, and the controllers at Waco Approach could not possibly have been more helpful and accommodating, and yet *every* time I flew south when P49 was expanded (when the President was in residence), I heard at least one plane getting the warn-off from an AWACS bird (and they sound very determined), with one such event ending in an intercept. I even heard one ultra-maroon use the issuance of a vector "to remain clear of restricted airspace" as an opportunity to make political commentary on-frequency.

Yes, and these people reproduce.

---

Sorry for the rant, but it's going to cost us all in the end.

---


And Denny - welcome to PoA!
 
Ron Levy said:
What's it going to take to get all pilots to read and heed NOTAMs?:mad2:
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I dunno. At least when you get a briefing that comes within 100NM of DCA the briefer questions you about whether you're familiar with the SFRA and whether you've done the training. But, of course, that will only help those who are already calling for a briefing.

That's one of the reasons we did the trip IFR. We just did not want to have to worry about those restrictions. When (not if) they start with user fees, I don't know what most people are going to do. I anticipate much lower compliance with "security restrictions.":yikes:

We've been tod that when there's a Presidential VIP TFR they typically get about 13 busts per day, IIRC. They were very pleased that when he came to Chicago a couple months ago there were only 6 or 7. They're going to try to use that as an argument to get them to tailor a smaller TFR for when he's in Chicago, though I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, I noted that the two Indiana TFRs Sunday were back to 30NM, not the expanded 35NM.:smile:
 
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