denverpilot
Tied Down
Wasn't the cop, Roscoe P. Coaltrain? Boss Hawg was the Mayor.
Darlington County Sheriff Responds
- Thread starter Kelvin
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Wasn't the cop, Roscoe P. Coaltrain? Boss Hawg was the Mayor.
If the cops try they will die with the rest of those trying to breech. The security at a nuke plant is not Keystone cops and are well armed. I have a buddy who is Federal Police, they are tasked with escorting shipments of nuclear materials and weapons on the highways, 4 well armed and manned Suburbans, 2 in front and 2 behind each truck. He told me about crossing Arkansas and blowing by a weigh station, they stop for nothing end to end, and a Trooper came out and pulled them over. They try to cooperate with locals and remain low key, so he gave the guy the governors phone number and a code and told him to call. He said they needed to hit the weigh station regardless, so they complied. Of course the truck was way overweight and the cop demanded to see what was in the truck. He told him that was not possible. The cop got indignant and said he was going to open the truck and started to walk towards it. At that moment 8 Uzis were immediately trained on him and my buddy said, "We are driving on now, we have wasted enough time on you. You can walk away, or you can die, but you aren't taking another step towards that trailer." They really don't give a flying f- who you are, if you try, you die.
Jeff K
Pre-takeoff checklist
wabower
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Wayne
Would it count if they could spell it correctly?
Which is all the more reason not to delete posts......
These guys put a new meaning to the word arrogent....
ChrisK
En-Route
He is still totally B.H.THANKS for the memory correction!
AdamZ
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
Remember there is a big difference between "Can" and "May" there are at the least, First Amendment issues to consider. As minor as it may seem if taxpayer dollars are use to construct or maintain the page, ie. paid sheriffs deputy or public information officer maintains the site, I'd suggest that sensoring the site could be problematic.
That does not mean that you can't delete things on public sites if they are not public record but it has to be done in accordance with an established policy, for example the office could have a policy of deleting post or emails or what ever that are 18 months old. The policy can't however be that they delete stuff when it makes them look bad.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
I can see that point of view, although I can also see that agencies might be more reluctant to have pages on sites like Facebook in the future.
1600vw
Pattern Altitude
I am amazed how this thread went from being about a man and his airplane that was almost shot out of the sky, to facebook.
I have wondered what the DCSO would have shot the dude down with...
Apache123
Line Up and Wait
I hear DHS is lending out drones
These southern sheriffs acquire a lot of their toys through forfeitures. I wouldn't be suprised if they had a machine gun of some sort that they took off some guy who was caught with a joint on his back porch.
pemora
Filing Flight Plan
What I want AOPA to do? I posted on the red board the following:
Since the FBI caused Mr. Fleming to be held in jail over night, where's the new training that will be provided to the FBI so they won't do this again? What is AOPA doing? What will the FBI do? Has this story ended for AOPA? I'm not satisfied.
Per http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/article...r-arrest.html:
"Unfortunately, the sheriff’s department didn’t de-escalate the situation as much as it should have, he said. But he defended the decision to hold Robin Fleming overnight and charge him with breach of peace. He said the local FBI had told them to hold the pilot for questioning, something they couldn’t do without a charge. The breach of peace charge is minor, he said, used for anything out of the ordinary, especially something that causes a law enforcement response."
It's more the FBI than TSA. So what happened to the AOPA/TSA meeting? Per:
"AOPA is scheduled to follow up with the Transportation Security Administration Jan. 23 on the incident and the agency’s plans to “continue to work with organizations at all levels of government by providing them with education on airspace matters via the local TSA Federal Security Directors and headquarters engagement” to help those organizations make “informed and effective decisions” about responding to incidents. AOPA and Fleming’s primary concern after the incident was to ensure that a similar incident would not happen again, and so the association has focused on what federal agencies can do to educate law enforcement officials about critical infrastructure sites and on airspace and jurisdiction."
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Unfortunately, this is emblematic of a shift in our culture toward fascism. We're not a fascist country, I'm not that big a nut job. But law enforcement has gained tremendous power in the couple decades, and many of our freedoms have gone by the wayside as a result. Culturally we are now told to obey law enforcement no matter what they do, comply and we'll sort it out later. Thus law enforcement agents and agencies are emboldened to do whatever they want. Fortunately, I think most do their best to act reasonably and professionally.
alaskaflyer
Final Approach
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Alaskaflyer
You don't think that a roughly analogous situation in, say, 1910, 1930 or 1960 wouldn't have gotten the same result (and perhaps a knock in the noggin' as a bonus) not to mention that there would be no chance in hell you would ever have had a viable civil action in return.
1600vw
Pattern Altitude
I had someone tell me the cops are useless. Then I had my place broken into a few times by this little 14 year old jerk. this kid has broken into over 20 homes in my area. He took all my tools. The police said...Nothing they can do about it.
So I do have to agree...Police are useless...unless you want a ticket.....
So I do have to agree...Police are useless...unless you want a ticket.....
roncachamp
Final Approach
If you know this little 14 year old jerk is the perp you must have some evidence. Why can't the cops act on the evidence?
I remember that law-enforcement abuses were certainly not scarce during the Vietnam era. People see the past through rose-colored glasses.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sometimes they just can't do something about it. It's probably frustrating to them, too.
A cop buddy of mine had problems with someone breaking into cars, or vandalism or something, in his part of town. He said he, and the rest of the department, had a good idea who it was but they just couldn't get enough reason or evidence to make a good arrest. Then, one night, the guy was driving his motorcycle on the wrong side of the road over a hill and became a hood ornament on a truck. Problem solved.
Maybe that 14 yo will simply pick the wrong house to break into one night.
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Police don't get enough credit. Violent crime is down 50% in my adult lifetime, if you believe the FBI's numbers.
The issue, and it's happening in all levels of our society, is that people get so wrapped around policy and procedure that they don't think, and honestly believe they're not supposed to think or act upon their own judgement, in almost all situations.
"I can't do that," has replaced "Let me do X for you and try to solve the problem, until I hear otherwise. It seems reasonable to me."
Example: "I see no reason to hold you here overnight for this. Where can we reach you in the morning?" was replaced with, "Treat everyone as a terrorist until proven innocent."
Basically it comes down to the Sheriff relinquishing his authority and ability to make decisions based on what he sees with his own two eyes.
Facts:
There's no bomb in the glider.
The dude is wearing a bucket hat and has tons of people calling from his gliding club wondering his whereabouts.
He's a pilot and says there was nothing charted by FAA saying he couldn't be there.
"Hey Mr. FBI, I'm going to send this guy home. You can find him at his house enjoying his coffee in the morning, and he will answer your questions there. I see no reason to detain him or charge him with a trumped up "peace" charge to hold him. I'll post someone to watch to make sure he doesn't flee."
I suspect it has more to do with not wanting to lose Federal Grant money that bought his new Comm Truck.
(A guess. Comm Truck, training, whatever they bought him... As they certainly did almost all local government agencies from DHS money, money, money since its inception.)
If he ****es them off, he loses money. Period.
Similar issue with banks. The bailout wasn't about fixing the liquidity problem. It was about stuffing the banks with cash to shore up FDIC, and in the same action, making the banks more beholden to their Fed masters.
This is our modern Federal government. They've gotten not only a large percentage of individuals addicted to their free money, but indirectly, DHS now owns (for lack of a better term) a large percentage of the assets of local governments. Things local government wanted but the voters said no, we can't afford it.
Denver and State of Colorado got massive communications infrastructure upgrades for the DNC four years ago. Now they can't afford the system upgrades from Motorola.
No one was brilliant enough to see that one that was bound to happen, I guess.
Guess who they have to apply to for ongoing grants to maintain systems now, and forever? Yearly.
The way the Federal Government can always break State's rights to be independent -- is to become the sugar daddy with funny money.
Same thing with Interstates and speed limit laws I'm the 70s and 80s. Sure, Montana... You can have no speed limit during daylight hours... But we will stop sending Federal Highway grants your way.
The issue, and it's happening in all levels of our society, is that people get so wrapped around policy and procedure that they don't think, and honestly believe they're not supposed to think or act upon their own judgement, in almost all situations.
"I can't do that," has replaced "Let me do X for you and try to solve the problem, until I hear otherwise. It seems reasonable to me."
Example: "I see no reason to hold you here overnight for this. Where can we reach you in the morning?" was replaced with, "Treat everyone as a terrorist until proven innocent."
Basically it comes down to the Sheriff relinquishing his authority and ability to make decisions based on what he sees with his own two eyes.
Facts:
There's no bomb in the glider.
The dude is wearing a bucket hat and has tons of people calling from his gliding club wondering his whereabouts.
He's a pilot and says there was nothing charted by FAA saying he couldn't be there.
"Hey Mr. FBI, I'm going to send this guy home. You can find him at his house enjoying his coffee in the morning, and he will answer your questions there. I see no reason to detain him or charge him with a trumped up "peace" charge to hold him. I'll post someone to watch to make sure he doesn't flee."
I suspect it has more to do with not wanting to lose Federal Grant money that bought his new Comm Truck.
(A guess. Comm Truck, training, whatever they bought him... As they certainly did almost all local government agencies from DHS money, money, money since its inception.)
If he ****es them off, he loses money. Period.
Similar issue with banks. The bailout wasn't about fixing the liquidity problem. It was about stuffing the banks with cash to shore up FDIC, and in the same action, making the banks more beholden to their Fed masters.
This is our modern Federal government. They've gotten not only a large percentage of individuals addicted to their free money, but indirectly, DHS now owns (for lack of a better term) a large percentage of the assets of local governments. Things local government wanted but the voters said no, we can't afford it.
Denver and State of Colorado got massive communications infrastructure upgrades for the DNC four years ago. Now they can't afford the system upgrades from Motorola.
No one was brilliant enough to see that one that was bound to happen, I guess.
Guess who they have to apply to for ongoing grants to maintain systems now, and forever? Yearly.
The way the Federal Government can always break State's rights to be independent -- is to become the sugar daddy with funny money.
Same thing with Interstates and speed limit laws I'm the 70s and 80s. Sure, Montana... You can have no speed limit during daylight hours... But we will stop sending Federal Highway grants your way.
Great post...
Same thing happened here.... Motorola has every one by the balls and they know it....The cost for the upgrades are staggering too...
...Another fiasco that the local guvmint bought into... DHS came through a few years back and handed out ( free of charge) 80 defibs for first responders to use... The county drank the kool aid without looking at the fine print.............
Upon acceptance the county committed to maintain those units for 10 years.. The defibs were delivered all at the same time. with all the batteries set to expire at the same time..... Guess what happened ?
.To honor their agreement /committment with DHS the local guv needs to come up with over 100 grand for new battereis..
...Guess who's taxes are going up to cover that *uckup.....
roncachamp
Final Approach
Do you believe the police deserve credit for that? Do you believe the FBI's numbers should be believed?
Great post...
Same thing happened here.... Motorola has every one by the balls and they know it....The cost for the upgrades are staggering too...
Another fiasco that the local guvmint bought into... DHS came through a few years back and handed out ( free of charge) 80 defibs for first responders to use... The county drank the kool aid without looking at the fine print.............
Upon acceptance the county committed to maintain those units for 10 years.. The defibs were delivered all at the same time. with all the batteries set to expire at the same time..... Guess what happened ?
To honor their agreement /committment with DHS the local guv needs to come up with over 100 grand for new battereis..
Guess who's taxes are going up to cover that *uckup.....
This sillyness goes beyond DHS. This is a combined Navy and DOT $80mil boondoggle:
http://www.coltoncompany.com/newsandcomment/Susitna.pdf
Here is a free ferry. And $6mil to build a ferry dock. Oh, but you have to maintain the boat. What do you mean, you can't get a permit to build the dock......
Anyone need a free ferryboat ?
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Police are nothing more than tax collectors.
Correct..... Their big advantage is....................................
They have a gun....
1600vw
Pattern Altitude
They "Cops" Have this kid in jail today, well yesturday, He was caught in another home. The police let him go, they say he is under age and in this area we go by a points system for these youngsters. Untill he reaches a certain number not much they can do. They catch him hold him a day or two then have to let him go.
We found some of my stuff outside his home, his mother does not watch this kid and when we approached her about this she says..Not my kid...
Then he yells at me and tells me he will be back for more, he admitted he did this. He lives across the ally from me or I should say from my home. I no longer live thier, I gave the place to my son, but all my stuff is in the garage or was not much left.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
Sounds like a great strategy for turning him into a hardened criminal instead of working with him to turn his life around so he can grow and become a productive member of society.
You say a little, you say a lot!
Most - the vast majority of - law enforcement officers are fine and honorable public servants, people who regularly place their own safety and comfort at grave risk so that the rest of us might have better and safer lives.
Unfortunately, there are some who, for whatever reason, believe that they are above the law and that they are the arbiters of what *is* the law. These people stand out in stark (and embarrassing) relief.
As one of my good friends, a LEO, says: "You may beat the rap, but you cannot beat the ride." And that's how a sixty-something year old, law-abiding glider pilot who not only is guilty of nothing, but has not even been charged with a colorable offense, ends up spending the night in a foul, overcrowded holding cell.
TheTraveler
Line Up and Wait
Not to change the subject or divert again, but this pitch (pasted below) for AOPA legal services was at the bottom of that article. Has anyone had experience with this service? Anyone know anyone with experience from this service?
I don't need it, I'm just curious if it's as effective and helpful as they claim it to be.
AOPA program offers legal services
Even careful pilots may be accused of violating federal regulations or other ordinances. Fortunately, AOPA offers the Legal Services Plan, which provides pilots with affordable legal defense for alleged federal aviation regulation violations as well as state or local ordinances. For more information on the program, visit www.aopa.org/pps.
"It is distressing, but in a situation like this one all you can really do is be prepared to defend yourself," said AOPA Director of Corporate Partnerships and Products Charlie Becker. "You need to have legal defense from an aviation attorney."
I don't need it, I'm just curious if it's as effective and helpful as they claim it to be.
AOPA program offers legal services
Even careful pilots may be accused of violating federal regulations or other ordinances. Fortunately, AOPA offers the Legal Services Plan, which provides pilots with affordable legal defense for alleged federal aviation regulation violations as well as state or local ordinances. For more information on the program, visit www.aopa.org/pps.
"It is distressing, but in a situation like this one all you can really do is be prepared to defend yourself," said AOPA Director of Corporate Partnerships and Products Charlie Becker. "You need to have legal defense from an aviation attorney."
If this is the email you got from AOPA yesterday spouting off about how great their legal protection plan is then for those who didn't get it.. here is the headline of that email... """""""
I hope by now everyone has watched the Secret No Fly Zone video about how an AOPA member was arrested for flying his glider near a nuclear power plant.
I was stunned when I heard this story. It is an appalling abuse of power against a pilot who did nothing wrong. Fortunately, the pilot was part of Pilot Protection Services and I’m proud to say that one of our panel attorneys helped defeat this bogus charge.
Remember that you have legal defense for state or local government actions against you while operating an aircraft. Let's hope you never have to use it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
so now AOPA is claiming "one of their panel attorneys helped defeat this bogus charge"..
To that me clearly says their attorney was involved in the plea agreement to not press charges againt DCSO......
alaskaflyer
Final Approach
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Alaskaflyer
Tell me why this is a police problem, again? Seems like it is more an issue with your state legislature.
Agreed...........
BUT.......
The police (could ) have used the same tactics the pilot is SC endured.... Just take the little punk in on a "loitering" charge and make his life difficult, just like they did the pilot of the glider....
SkyHog
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
If this is the email you got from AOPA yesterday spouting off about how great their legal protection plan is then for those who didn't get it.. here is the headline of that email... """""""
I hope by now everyone has watched the Secret No Fly Zone video about how an AOPA member was arrested for flying his glider near a nuclear power plant.
I was stunned when I heard this story. It is an appalling abuse of power against a pilot who did nothing wrong. Fortunately, the pilot was part of Pilot Protection Services and I’m proud to say that one of our panel attorneys helped defeat this bogus charge.
Remember that you have legal defense for state or local government actions against you while operating an aircraft. Let's hope you never have to use it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
so now AOPA is claiming "one of their panel attorneys helped defeat this bogus charge"..
To that me clearly says their attorney was involved in the plea agreement to not press charges againt DCSO......
Wait? AOPA is taking credit for something they had nothing to do with???
That never happens!
They are baaaaaackkkk
https://www.facebook.com/DCSOSheriff?ref=ts&fref=ts
1 post in the AOPA article link....1 lousy post....
https://www.facebook.com/DCSOSheriff?ref=ts&fref=ts
1 post in the AOPA article link....1 lousy post....
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
I hope I did this right. I recommended them with a link to this string....
Skylane81E
Final Approach
Must resist urge to post snarky comment...
Guffaw....AOPA is trying to take credit for mediating and resolving the nightmare at Grand Junction. Double guffaw.