DA40XL Pre Buy

J

JOhnH

Touchdown! Greaser!
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I wish I could say this was for me, but it is for a friend.
This friend is considering the purchase of a 2007 Diamond DA40XL.
The engine and Air Frame have a Total Time of 395.5 hours Tach Time (473.8 Hobbs)

He asked me to look over the report.

Here are a couple of questions I have:
Compression on the IO 360 M1A is 76/80, 78/80, 79/80, 78/80. That looks good to me but he asked about the "76" since it is lower than the others.

The report said "Propeller had a repair on 12/29/2009 at 241.2 hours. The repair included overhauled blades.".
I asked him if he could get more information on WHY the prop was repaired and he is checking. Why would a propeller need repairs like that so early? Prop Strike? Factory defect?

Other than that, everything looks great. All ADs have either been complied with or are N/A. He is particularly attracted to this plane because of the GFC 700 Auto Pilot.

I am jealous as s**t, but am excited for him.
He also asked about fitting a plane with a 39.2 ft wingspan in a 40ft T Hanger. I told him he would forever have to be careful pushing it in, and getting to the back under the low-wing is going to get old fast. But his other hanger option (a community hanger) is $800/month. All I could do was whistle at that. I might have to rent a tie-down space and pay for a wax job monthly and invest in a good cover.

Any comments?
 
JOhnH said:
I wish I could say this was for me, but it is for a friend.
This friend is considering the purchase of a 2007 Diamond DA40XL.
The engine and Air Frame have a Total Time of 395.5 hours Tach Time (473.8 Hobbs)

He asked me to look over the report.

Here are a couple of questions I have:
Compression on the IO 360 M1A is 76/80, 78/80, 79/80, 78/80. That looks good to me but he asked about the "76" since it is lower than the others.

The report said "Propeller had a repair on 12/29/2009 at 241.2 hours. The repair included overhauled blades.".
I asked him if he could get more information on WHY the prop was repaired and he is checking. Why would a propeller need repairs like that so early? Prop Strike? Factory defect?

Other than that, everything looks great. All ADs have either been complied with or are N/A. He is particularly attracted to this plane because of the GFC 700 Auto Pilot.

I am jealous as s**t, but am excited for him.
He also asked about fitting a plane with a 39.2 ft wingspan in a 40ft T Hanger. I told him he would forever have to be careful pushing it in, and getting to the back under the low-wing is going to get old fast. But his other hanger option (a community hanger) is $800/month. All I could do was whistle at that. I might have to rent a tie-down space and pay for a wax job monthly and invest in a good cover.

Any comments?
Click to expand...

Getting that bird into the hangar: You can take some aluminum angle and screw it down to the ramp to create wheel guides to get it in the hangar with precision.
 
He can somewhat kitty-corner it into a T hangar to get a bit more clearance, other than that paint stripes on the ground exactly where his wheels need to be. High 70's across the board compression wise is good, you want to worry when ones in the 60's and the others are high 70's. Check the NTSB reports for any damage history, and I'll be interested to hear what the overhaul at 240 hours on the prop was all about.

Note: Not an IA or A&P but I've been involved with quite a few pre-buys lately.
 
Is he buying from the original owner or a dealer? An owner should know why the prop was repaired. The shop that fixed it might also have a record.
 
wabower said:
Is he buying from the original owner or a dealer? An owner should know why the prop was repaired. The shop that fixed it might also have a record.
Click to expand...

Dealer. That is why he doesn't have that information yet, but he has asked that they find out.
 
The compressions look great. As far as the width--wow, that is going to be tight. My mooney leaves me with about 2 ft on either side, and I still get nervous about hangar rash. If the plane is real light, it may not be hard, but I have to get a little head of steam going to push my plane over the hangar door guides.
 
I'm having trouble imagining what could happen to the prop on that aircraft which would require overhauling the blades but not trigger the teardown inspection of AD 2004-10-14 on that Lycoming engine. Might want to look real close at both prop and engine logs, and do some investigation.
 
Is it a composite prop? Sometimes they delaminates and otherwise come apart.
 
Henning said:
Is it a composite prop? Sometimes they delaminates and otherwise come apart.
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Heck running a toolbox into it would require repair, maybe they opted for overhaul at the same time.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Getting that bird into the hangar: You can take some aluminum angle and screw it down to the ramp to create wheel guides to get it in the hangar with precision.
Click to expand...

Yep, you can bolt down lumber too, with that tight of clearance you want wheel guides and a tail winch.
 
Would a non-movement prop event be the likely cause? What if somebody backed a tug/truck into the stopped prop and slightly bent it, or a piece of flying debris hit it and dinged it up?

Ron Levy said:
I'm having trouble imagining what could happen to the prop on that aircraft which would require overhauling the blades but not trigger the teardown inspection of AD 2004-10-14 on that Lycoming engine. Might want to look real close at both prop and engine logs, and do some investigation.
Click to expand...
 
JOhnH said:
He also asked about fitting a plane with a 39.2 ft wingspan in a 40ft T Hanger.
Click to expand...

This really sounds like a bad idea. I have clearance for the wingtips, but only ~12 inches of clearance on each side for the elevator and I'm still paranoid that I'm going to dent something every time I push it in. I can't imagine having 4 inches on each side of the wings.

Suggest he take a tape measure in there before putting the plane in and verify that it's truly 40ft at the narrowest point. You'd hate to rent a 40ft hangar that turns out to be 39'3" and the plane won't even fit.
 
I think the DA-40's have a wood composite prop, so delamination could have been an issue. Definitely worth investigating further to see what happened...
 
dukeblue219 said:
Would a non-movement prop event be the likely cause? What if somebody backed a tug/truck into the stopped prop and slightly bent it, or a piece of flying debris hit it and dinged it up?
Click to expand...

Considering a non movement strike can be considered a prop strike for the engine....
 
I have a friend that has a da40 xl and a 40ft hangar width. He has lines painted and a winch. He goes really slow getting it in...
 
dukeblue219 said:
Would a non-movement prop event be the likely cause? What if somebody backed a tug/truck into the stopped prop and slightly bent it, or a piece of flying debris hit it and dinged it up?
Click to expand...
Here are the exact words from that AD:
Definition of Propeller Strike

(i) For the purposes of this AD, a propeller strike is defined
as follows:
(1) Any incident, whether or not the engine is operating, that
requires repair to the propeller other than minor dressing of the
blades.
(2) Any incident during engine operation in which the propeller
impacts a solid object that causes a drop in revolutions per minute
(RPM) and also requires structural repair of the propeller
(incidents requiring only paint touch-up are not included). This is
not restricted to propeller strikes against the ground.
(3) A sudden RPM drop while impacting water, tall grass, or
similar yielding medium, where propeller damage is not normally
incurred.
(j) The preceding definitions include situations where an
aircraft is stationary and the landing gear collapses causing one or
more blades to be substantially bent, or where a hanger door (or
other object) strikes the propeller blade. These cases should be
handled as sudden stoppages because of potentially severe side
loading on the crankshaft flange, front bearing, and seal.
Click to expand...
Does that answer your question? Personally, I think the FAA would say overhaul of all the blades goes beyond "minor dressing of the blades."
 
dukeblue219 said:
Yep. Thanks, I glanced over the AD but didn't see the obvious.

What if the prop was removed for unknown purposes and then damaged in the shop? Would that ever happen?
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I suppose it could. So it all goes back to what was said up at the top -- finding out if something impacted the prop to cause it to need an overhaul, or (if it's the composite MT prop) whether there was just some inherent material defect in the prop which required sending it back for retraining.

Personally, I just got finished with 12 days in a DA-40XLS with the G1000 package and MT prop, and I think it's a very nice plane. Only negative thing I can say is the roll rate is too sluggish for my taste, but my taste was shaped in fighters, so what feels good to me often feels "twitchy" to others -- put that in the "YMMV so it's whatever you like" department along with high-wing/low-wing debate (FWIW, my favorite plane was the high-wing F-111 and my current plane is the low-wing Grumman Tiger).
 
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Ron Levy said:
Here are the exact words from that AD:
Does that answer your question? Personally, I think the FAA would say overhaul of all the blades goes beyond "minor dressing of the blades."
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron, I'll pass that on to himl

He said it was a composite prop and that they are know to have some type of delamination problem, but I will make sure he gets further information, including copies of Return to Service docs.

He also said he is not consdering the 40 ft T Hanger. He doesn't want to deal with that.
 
And perhaps the Prop repair included the necessary inspection of the engine for a propstrike but everything was in spec? I can see where a disassembly/reassembly wouldn't show up in marketing stuff, but it SHOULD show up in a log review.

They are great planes. As Ron notes, they're more "ponderous" in roll than in pitch, and the long wing can make the airplane roll a bit in less-than-smooth air. But the view is terrific, and the seats are surprisingly comfy on long trips.
 
TMetzinger said:
And perhaps the Prop repair included the necessary inspection of the engine for a propstrike but everything was in spec? I can see where a disassembly/reassembly wouldn't show up in marketing stuff, but it SHOULD show up in a log review.
Click to expand...
Yes -- if the prop damage causes it to fall under that AD, the teardown should be in the engine log. If not, well, "if it isn't written down, it didn't happen."
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes -- if the prop damage causes it to fall under that AD, the teardown should be in the engine log. If not, well, "if it isn't written down, it didn't happen."
Click to expand...
That MT(IIRC) propellor is notorious for delaminating....
 
The composite MT prop on the DA40 is notoriously prone to easy FOD and the damage limits are very tight (I own one). Your friend needs to dig hard on why the prop overhaul. Is the engine tach time significantly less than the airframe TT?
 
DrMack said:
The composite MT prop on the DA40 is notoriously prone to easy FOD and the damage limits are very tight (I own one). Your friend needs to dig hard on why the prop overhaul. Is the engine tach time significantly less than the airframe TT?
Click to expand...

Original post indicated same time on engine and airframe.
 
jjflys said:
I think the DA-40's have a wood composite prop, so delamination could have been an issue. Definitely worth investigating further to see what happened...
Click to expand...

DA40's have had at least four different props since they were introduced in 2001. Ours has a Hartzell two-blade metal prop.
 
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