DA40 & Piper Arrow vs. C172 and Cherokee

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hnl.flyboy

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hnl.flyboy
I'm a Private Pilot. Got my cert in 2006 when UND had a satellite campus with Honolulu Community College, and left because of a lack of money. I now have ~125 hours, about evenly split between the Warrior III and various C172 models. I'm back in school at HCC with the GI Bill, UND is gone, and I'll be flying a DA40 and a Piper Arrow.

Last time I flew PIC was early April, and I had maybe an hour in a Samba XXL motor glider with a friend where he let me fly most of the time...so I guess you can say I'm rusty. That being said, how hard would it be to transition to the DA40? It should be easier as it's been a while having any stick time, so I should pick up DA40 habits soon enough.. but what can I expect on my first flight? I'm mostly interested in how it handles, as I can figure out the G1000 as I go along.
 
Haven't flown the DA40 so I can't comment. I'm sure Kent will be along to comment though.

I would comment that you should probably get some kind of G1000 training before you fly rather than figuring it out.
 
DA40 is one of the best handling airplanes I've ever flown (defiantly the best handling 4 seater I've ever flown). Controls are light and precise.

As long as you familiarize yourself with the G1000 the transition should not be difficult. Also familiarize yourself with the constant speed prop.

Let me know if you want to know anything specific.


BTW is it a DA40-180 or the NG?
 
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I know a guy who used to be around HNL with a Samba XXL......it wasn't Andrew Dinmore was it?
 
DA 40 is an incredibly benign aircraft. Haul back on the stick at 1400 rpm and it'll bob and weave but it won't drop a wing. To get it to spin you have to BOOT it over.

Not quite so sedate in a power on stall, but wow.
 
Arrows are dogs. If you're going to buy a CS prop retract for personal use, get a Mooney.
 
hnl.flyboy said:
I'm a Private Pilot. Got my cert in 2006 when UND had a satellite campus with Honolulu Community College, and left because of a lack of money. I now have ~125 hours, about evenly split between the Warrior III and various C172 models. I'm back in school at HCC with the GI Bill, UND is gone, and I'll be flying a DA40 and a Piper Arrow.

Last time I flew PIC was early April, and I had maybe an hour in a Samba XXL motor glider with a friend where he let me fly most of the time...so I guess you can say I'm rusty. That being said, how hard would it be to transition to the DA40? It should be easier as it's been a while having any stick time, so I should pick up DA40 habits soon enough.. but what can I expect on my first flight? I'm mostly interested in how it handles, as I can figure out the G1000 as I go along.
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Hello!

Lucky you that you live in Hawaii! We go every year to different Islands, but I really want to retire there!

I've flown yokes and sticks, and the transition is never very long. I think you'll like the modern DA40.

The MUCH bigger issue is the G1000. Do NOT learn that on the fly (haha). Get a good book like Trescott's and study it, with highlighter and pen. Take notes. Then, get some time in a G1000 simulator or in the plane with it hooked up to an external power source. Play with that an hour or so. Then, expect maybe 3 to 5 flight hours to become familiar with the interface, VFR (more for IFR, of course).

Enjoy!
 
I'm working on my G1000 DA40 transition training. Great airplane. Clean and crisp and well behaved.
 
EppyGA said:
Haven't flown the DA40 so I can't comment. I'm sure Kent will be along to comment though.

I would comment that you should probably get some kind of G1000 training before you fly rather than figuring it out.
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Definitely. Figuring out the G1000 on the fly isn't a great idea, but I'll have an instructor on board. When I flew in the Samba XXL, the handling was very different from any other plane I've flown, and I was wondering if there was anything quirky about it.
 
MachFly said:
DA40 is one of the best handling airplanes I've ever flown (defiantly the best handling 4 seater I've ever flown). Controls are light and precise.

As long as you familiarize yourself with the G1000 the transition should not be difficult. Also familiarize yourself with the constant speed prop.

Let me know if you want to know anything specific.


BTW is it a DA40-180 or the NG?
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I'm pretty sure it's the DA40-180
 
bbchien said:
DA 40 is an incredibly benign aircraft. Haul back on the stick at 1400 rpm and it'll bob and weave but it won't drop a wing. To get it to spin you have to BOOT it over.

Not quite so sedate in a power on stall, but wow.
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You didn't actually spin it, did you?
 
...oh nevermind, it was just a certification isssue. Carry on.
 
Got any experience with a Garmin 430/530? If you're proficient with those the G1000 will seem fairly intuitive once somebody shows you how to do it. The menu system is still fairly similar, with rows of softkeys on the bottom of the screen and the same inner-outer knob for entering information, and switching pages.
 
I am kind of at the same place now. Most of my (insignificant) flight time is in Cherokee and C172. And I am transitioning to DA40. Just worried that stick, T-tail, constant speed prop and G1000 at the same time may be overwhelming. But as a computer person at heart (work in IT), I think G1000 should be easy. I spent few quality hours with G1000 sim, so I am more or less familiar about it. Once you get through gazillion buttons, it's easy and somewhat intuitive system to use.
 
Meanee said:
I am kind of at the same place now. Most of my (insignificant) flight time is in Cherokee and C172. And I am transitioning to DA40. Just worried that stick, T-tail, constant speed prop and G1000 at the same time may be overwhelming. But as a computer person at heart (work in IT), I think G1000 should be easy. I spent few quality hours with G1000 sim, so I am more or less familiar about it. Once you get through gazillion buttons, it's easy and somewhat intuitive system to use.
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Then move up to the Perspective. Even easier and more powerful, too.
 
hnl.flyboy said:
I'm pretty sure it's the DA40-180
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In that case let me know if you want a pdf copy of the POH, if you do PM me an email where you want me to send it.
 
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I learned in a 172 and now have about 700 hours in a DA40. The DA40 is much easier to fly and much more enjoyable to fly. Your flair will be a little flatter than the 172 but other than that, the transition will be cake. You will learn 85% of what you need to know about a CS prop in five minutes. All the way forward for takeoff and landing, pull back to something between 2,500 and 2.200 RPM for cruise. The other 15% will take hundreds of hours to master as it will involve sorting out all sorts of wives tales from facts in terms of running over squared, lean of peak, best economy, best RPM so your engine lasts forever or never makes it TBO etc.

No matter what, have fun flying the safest single piston 4 seater ever made and do your part to keep that safety record intact.
 
Learned to fly in Pipers and now own a share in a 2007 DA40XL. The prop speed is a non-issue as you'll figure that out in just a couple of hours. I agree with the opinion of others here that the G1000 is going to be the real challenge. My advice is to procure the G1000 simulator from Garmin (~$30) and spend as many hours on it that you can. Use two monitors, one for the PFD and the other for the MFD.

BTW, I wen UH come smaaht (school of engineering class of 1980). Wen stay Kailua foh da whole time we were keikis. From 1950s to early 80s family wen stay in our hale on Kaipiha Shtreet an Kaimake Loop in coconut grove. Miss crack seed, fesh poi, rice for breakfast, an all da uddah kine kaukau like fresh ono off da grill.
.
 
DrMack said:
BTW, I wen UH come smaaht (school of engineering class of 1980). Wen stay Kailua foh da whole time we were keikis. From 1950s to early 80s family wen stay in our hale on Kaipiha Shtreet an Kaimake Loop in coconut grove. Miss crack seed, fesh poi, rice for breakfast, an all da uddah kine kaukau like fresh ono off da grill.
.
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STOP! I have to wait a few months until my FF miles add up to get a ticket back!
 
I have just transferred to MTSU, which flies DA40s. I got my private in a Warrior so I'm dealing with the transition as well. I've only had 3 or 4 flights in the Diamond so far, but I absolutely love it. It is the best airplane I've ever flown, including SR20s. The stick is great, light, much easier to fly than the PA28. I've also noticed that you need much less rudder input to keep it in coordinated flight. As others have said, the G1000 is more of a transition than the airplane itself. MTSU has glass and round dials, and I've been in the round dials mostly, but have spent quite a few lessons in the g1000 simulator, and it'll come to you quickly. All the same information is there, you just have to get used to the presentation really. I'll always be a big fan of the Cherokee, I like the Warriors, and my dad has a Dakota. But you'll like the Diamond, it's a great airplane.
 
I don't think comparing the DA40 to the SR20 is appropriate. They are a lot different in performance and interior room.
 
spiderweb said:
I don't think comparing the DA40 to the SR20 is appropriate. They are a lot different in performance and interior room.
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Not really, performance is similar as well as interior room, Cirrus themselves compare the SR20 to DA40 all the time.

They both do around 140kts, DA40 climbs a better (but that's just because cirrus will overheat). Both have 4 seats and plenty of leg room.
 
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MachFly said:
Not really, performance is similar as well as interior room, Cirrus themselves compare the SR20 to DA40 all the time.

They both do around 140kts, DA40 climbs a better (but that's just because cirrus will overheat). Both have 4 seats and plenty of leg room.
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Fair enough. In cruise, I usually see 147-148 KTS in the Cirrus, but 140 isn't much slower in the DA40.
 
If your renting make sure they put wheel fairings on for you, without them don't expect more than 130kts, you get extra 10kts with them on.
 
I hear the newer (year?) Diamonds get 150kts (????- anyone)
reference?
 
Jaybird180 said:
I hear the newer (year?) Diamonds get 150kts (????- anyone)
reference?
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I did some research and I am very interested in the new DA-50 Superstar. They say it will be pressurized. That's unusual!
 
So I flew one. 0.6 ground instruction, and 1 hour dual in DA-40. Plane feels different from Cessna/Piper. From takeoff to landing, I thought that the aircraft is not for beginners. G1000 could be a bit more to manage. And I felt that I need to "stay ahead" of the plane a little bit. And landing felt like a no-flap landing, since I was asked not to flare too much. But overall, I felt like I did on my very first flight. Even with added complexities, DA-40 felt like a pure pleasure to fly.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I hear the newer (year?) Diamonds get 150kts (????- anyone)
reference?
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Which Diamond?
The DA42 NG can cruise at 175kts, I've gotten it just above 180 in cruise a few times but my engines start overhearing. I hear the DA42 V1 can do 200kts.
 
MachFly said:
Which Diamond?
The DA42 NG can cruise at 175kts, I've gotten it just above 180 in cruise a few times but my engines start overhearing. I hear the DA42 V1 can do 200kts.
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I was referring to the DA40 doing 150 (what I heard from a DA40 owner).

What can the Diesel 42 do?
 
Jaybird180 said:
I was referring to the DA40 doing 150 (what I heard from a DA40 owner).
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The 180 (Lycoming) version defiantly can't do 150. I don't know about the NG, never flown it, but I highly doubt that it's faster. It is turbocharged it but has 12 less hp and a similar airframe, it does have winglets but I do not know how much they improve performance.

What can the Diesel 42 do?
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3 of the 4 DA42s are diesel. First model that came out, DA42 TDI has the Thielert Centurion 2.0 engines and it's supposed to do 160kts. I'd never fly this one though, engines are supposed to be extremely unreliable.
The DA42 and NG and V1 have the Austro AE300s and the NG can do 175kts, V1 has some aerodynamical improvements and based on what I seen from Diamond's testing videos it can do 200kts.
The DA42 L360 (Lycoming IO-360, only gasoline version) is also supposed to do somewhere around 160kts.

Just keep in mind that I haven't flown any TwinStar besides the NG.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
I hear the newer (year?) Diamonds get 150kts (????- anyone)
reference?
Click to expand...


I have a 2012 DA40 XLS and can confirm. Can get to 150-151kts on mine, but almost never fly all out like that. In cruise I'm usually in the 143-145kts range.

Was around 137kts today in economy flight burning under 8gph. :D

My transition from a 172 was a total non-event. Insurance only required 3 hours dual (I did more like 10). Flaring too high was the main challenge. Slowing it down and keeping speed under control in the pattern took a little getting used to as well. And, as someone else mentioned, landing flat can be an issue too.

As for the G1000, listen to what others have posted. I'm an IT guy as well and was overconfident how quick I'd pick it up. I have a ways to go still! :idea:
 
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I flew one of the old 180hp DA40s. The book speedwas135 but it wouldn't do it without the wheel pants which we didn't have and the FBO refused to install them for a 4 day XC I was intending to do so I didn't rent, long story...another time....

Anyhow I've been unable to confirm the cruise speeds on the latest version of the 40.

200kts on the 42 is nice, considering we'd likely never see the DA50
 
Gnomad said:
I have a 2012 DA40 XLS and can confirm. Can get to 150-151kts on mine, but almost never fly all out like that. In cruise I'm usually in the 143-145kts range.

Was around 137kts today in economy flight burning under 8gph. :D

My transition from a 172 was a total non-event. Insurance only required 3 hours dual (I did more like 10). Flaring too high was the main challenge. Slowing it down and keeping speed under control in the pattern took a little getting used to as well. And, as someone else mentioned, landing flat can be an issue too.

As for the G1000, listen to what others have posted. I'm an IT guy as well and was overconfident how quick I'd pick it up. I have a ways to go still! :idea:
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What's book cruise at 75% @8,000 MSL?
 
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