Customer got hit by a prop today.

Tom-D said:
nor should it, you make statements about things that you have no possibility of knowing. You weren't there, you didn't see what happened, yet you know every thing about it.
But as always your bias shows.
Show me why I should have known the owner was going to touch the prop? specially when he is well versed in the procedure and dangers involved?
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We're making progress here. You finally admit that there's danger involved. Just what, exactly, is the danger? Slipping on a banana peel? Having bad gas? Piano falling on your head? Perhaps the propeller rapidly moving as the cylinder comes off TDC, thereby creating an injury hazard, whether it is touched by an idiot or simply gazed at by a genius? Good Lord, Tom! Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions AND inactions. It was a mistake, yes, but it was your mistake.
 
Lachlan said:
We're making progress here. You finally admit that there's danger involved. Just what, exactly, is the danger? Slipping on a banana peel? Having bad gas? Piano falling on your head? Perhaps the propeller rapidly moving as the cylinder comes off TDC, thereby creating an injury hazard, whether it is touched by an idiot or simply gazed at by a genius? Good Lord, Tom! Grow up and take some responsibility for your actions AND inactions. It was a mistake, yes, but it was your mistake.
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Let me speak for Tom real quick...

How do you make the association it was Tom's fault? Obviously the injured customer knew how to work on a plane and knew the dangers, thus absolving Tom of any responsibility for the injury. Everyone knows Tom knew the dangers so he stayed back, the customer was just stupid......

Right Tom?......


And how do you make the association that Tom gives a rats arse? Cause it sure looks like he doesnt.
 
Lachlan said:
We're making progress here. You finally admit that there's danger involved.
SmashTime said:
Let me speak for Tom real quick...

How do you make the association it was Tom's fault? Obviously the injured customer knew how to work on a plane and knew the dangers, thus absolving Tom of any responsibility for the injury. Everyone knows Tom knew the dangers so he stayed back, the customer was just stupid......

Right Tom?......


And how do you make the association that Tom gives a rats arse? Cause it sure looks like he doesnt.
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Once again you make the wrong assumption every one knew the dangers, there is dangers in every day life, you say I finally admit that there is danger, all but you knew that already.
 
[QUOTE="SmashTime, post: 2091974, member: 23176"
How do you make the association it was Tom's fault? Obviously the injured customer knew how to work on a plane and knew the dangers, thus absolving Tom of any responsibility for the injury. Everyone knows Tom knew the dangers so he stayed back, the customer was just stupid......

Right Tom?......[/QUOTE]
Your absolutely wrong about my customer being stupid? you make these statements like you are experienced in what happens in a owner assisted annual. when you have already stated you don't even know what a compression check was.
when you can tell me how to stop people from making mistakes with out thinking, your creditability will come back. because you lost it all when you made the insinuation that I don't care what happens to my friends.

OBTW my friend and customer is doing fine and regrets grabbing the prop with out telling me what he was about to do. His intentions were to pump the prop back and forth to see if the 74/80 would increase, but did not grasp the prop well enough to prevent it from slipping from his hands.
 
SmashTime said:
I really hope the guy who got hurt reads this and sees Tom for what he really is.
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he has known me for a very long time, unlike you. I supervised him in his restoration/ rebuild of his 150 and undersigned all his entries in his maintenance records, approved all his 337s submitted to the FAA, yes we know and trust each other very well.
 
Good for him.

What did you learn Tom? Was this a wake up call, or just another day at the office?
 
Anyway guys and gals, you can make of this thread as you please, I know you will anyway, so learn what you can, cause I'm done arguing with those who haven't a clue as to what happens in an owner assisted annual, and make assumptions about things not in evidence.
CYA.
 
SmashTime said:
Good for him.

What did you learn Tom? Was this a wake up call, or just another day at the office?
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Pretty much a wake up call. we all learned a lesson about not suffering crainialrectitus, around aircraft.
 
I think he posts stuff like this just to argue. :yesnod:

I would think you could see your responsibility in ensuring a customer, or any person for that matter, wouldn't do something unsafe when they are UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION. If this cat sued you I think you'd be found guilty. IMO.
 
i have had props swing off tdc under 80 lbs of pressure lucky my other gloved hand was on the end of the prop. if i have help i always work the prop and other guy works the gauge following my instructions to the letter. never let go till air hose is disconnected
 
Definitely see the populist "must be someone else to blame" attitude for supposed adults, quite clearly in this thread.

Too many people listening to too many politicians and lawyers for way too long, even revering them which is where it gets really sick, and actually believing their garbage they have to sell to make a living.

Sometimes you do stupid **** as an adult and sometimes it even hurts, and it's not the fault of the other people in the room.

In non-bizarro world, it's really hard to argue that a pilot and aircraft owner doesn't know that props are deadly. A stupid argument even.

In our pansy-ass society of whiners and blamers, people actually wonder for a bit ...
 
denverpilot said:
Definitely see the populist "must be someone else to blame" attitude for supposed adults, quite clearly in this thread.
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More like a CYA attitude from living in a society where the "populist 'must be someone else to blame attitude' for supposed adults" is so rampant that when someone gets hurt because they did something stupid, everyone in sight is likely to get named in the lawsuit.

And the fact that as the professional in the room, Tom would be the first to be sued, as several have tried to point out, If the guy who got hurt decided to sue... which, fortunately, it seems he has already decided not to. Maybe he's an actual, not just a supposed, adult. :)
 
Tom-D said:
nor should it, you make statements about things that you have no possibility of knowing. You weren't there, you didn't see what happened, yet you know every thing about it.
But as always your bias shows.
Show me why I should have known the owner was going to touch the prop? specially when he is well versed in the procedure and dangers involved?
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Why wouldn't you assume the owner is going to touch the prop? Isn't that the logic we assume all guns are loaded?
 
denverpilot said:
Definitely see the populist "must be someone else to blame" attitude for supposed adults, quite clearly in this thread.

Too many people listening to too many politicians and lawyers for way too long, even revering them which is where it gets really sick, and actually believing their garbage they have to sell to make a living.

Sometimes you do stupid **** as an adult and sometimes it even hurts, and it's not the fault of the other people in the room.

In non-bizarro world, it's really hard to argue that a pilot and aircraft owner doesn't know that props are deadly. A stupid argument even.

In our pansy-ass society of whiners and blamers, people actually wonder for a bit ...
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I'd say the majority are more interested in preventing it from happening again and not blaming Tom or the Pilot, or running to the nearest lawyer.
 
once again somewhat disgusted by the direction this thread took ... I would work with Tom, given the opportunity. For the rest of the nastiness this thread took, can't say the same for a bunch of others. Of course, we KNOW all y'all ain't that nasty in real life, right?
 
Tom-D said:
Pretty much a wake up call. we all learned a lesson about not suffering crainialrectitus, around aircraft.
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True.

I respect your willingness to come forward with this, though you might be a tad more open to criticism. Ego defense mechanisms are real, but one can still try to mitigate their effects to see things more objectively.

Serious question: How do you think you would have felt had he been killed? Do you think you might be feeling any more or less responsibility?
 
ifly4fun said:
Why wouldn't you assume the owner is going to touch the prop? Isn't that the logic we assume all guns are loaded?
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Uhh.... the assume the gun is loaded analogy would apply to someone assuming the prop was "loaded", especially when he just watched it being loaded. The person who loaded the gun has no reason to believe that someone who watched him load it will just pick up the gun and pull the trigger with it pointed at his head.
 
gkainz said:
once again somewhat disgusted by the direction this thread took ... I would work with Tom, given the opportunity. For the rest of the nastiness this thread took, can't say the same for a bunch of others. Of course, we KNOW all y'all ain't that nasty in real life, right?
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I'm definitely this straight forward in real life. It took a nasty turn because there was a lot of dancing around any real acceptance of blame or contributing to the injury.

So yea, either you love me or you hate me. I'm fine with either. Cause I don't like half friends.
 
SmashTime said:
I'm definitely this straight forward in real life. It took a nasty turn because there was a lot of dancing around any real acceptance of blame or contributing to the injury.

So yea, either you love me or you hate me. I'm fine with either. Cause I don't like half friends.
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The guy that got hurt was almost a half friend
 
Tom-D said:
Once again you make the wrong assumption every one knew the dangers, there is dangers in every day life, you say I finally admit that there is danger, all but you knew that already.
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So you're saying the owner did NOT know the dangers involved? And you held up the gauge for him to look at while he was standing in FRONT of the propeller, while you were behind it? Yes, clearly the owner is an idiot for sure. His choice of mechanics may be proof. ;)
 
Tom-D said:
Anyway guys and gals, you can make of this thread as you please, I know you will anyway, so learn what you can, cause I'm done arguing with those who haven't a clue as to what happens in an owner assisted annual, and make assumptions about things not in evidence.
CYA.
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If you don't want to hear other points of view why did you start this thread?
 
Norman said:
If you don't want to hear other points of view why did you start this thread?
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My best guess is he thought he'd have a bandwagon of people telling him it wasn't his fault because he was worried he was going to get sued.

Kind of like a certain banned member posting after he belly flopped his 310 because he couldn't sell it. He wanted a thread containing him addmiting his honest "mistake" incase anyone needed an example of him being truthfull.... like it really carries any weight....



Something along those lines...
 
Dr. O said:
Tom, Tom, Tom, I'm from OSHA and I'm here to help you

Let's see:
1. No OSHA approved hard hat on you
2. No OSHA approved hard hat on customer
3. No OSHA approved safety fencing around a known hazard
4. Failure to fit customer with OSHA required automatic hand restraint
5. No OSHA approved warning signs for moving machinery
7. No OSHA required first aid station
8. Failure to provide OSHA required safety briefing to non emplo0yee entering the shop
9. Failure to file OSHA required report of a workplace injury

Fine will be $174,313.21
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Nah, if you were from OSHA, you would have called first, told him you were stopping by . . .
 
Norman said:
If you don't want to hear other points of view why did you start this thread?
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You should know that no one needs a reason to start anything on this page. But if you are not smart enough to know that you are probably not smart enough to under stand the explanation .
It's not a case of hearing other points of view.
 
SmashTime said:
My best guess is he thought he'd have a bandwagon of people telling him it wasn't his fault because he was worried he was going to get sued. Something along those lines...
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your guessing is wrong again. If I had any idea that any of my customers would sue me , they wouldn't be my customers. but keep posting you have a great comedic value.
 
mscard88 said:
I think he posts stuff like this just to argue. :yesnod:

I would think you could see your responsibility in ensuring a customer, or any person for that matter, wouldn't do something unsafe when they are UNDER YOUR SUPERVISION. If this cat sued you I think you'd be found guilty. IMO.
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don't try to think, you are not good at it.
 
Tom-D said:
your guessing is wrong again. If I had any idea that any of my customers would sue me , they wouldn't be my customers. but keep posting you have a great comedic value.
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I've got no dog in this fight, but sometimes it's an insurance company, family member, etc. that sues. You can't prevent being sued based on "knowing" someone. But I guess that's where liability insurance and CYA type JSA's come into play.
 
Somedudeintn said:
I've got no dog in this fight, but sometimes it's an insurance company, family member, etc. that sues. You can't prevent being sued based on "knowing" someone. But I guess that's where liability insurance and CYA type JSA's come into play.
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And if the guy has already admitted in front of others that it was his fault,,,, what then.
Remember he only got stitches, he's not dead, so don't get carried away.
 
Tom-D said:
And if the guy has already admitted in front of others that it was his fault,,,, what then.
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I wasn't referring to this specific situation, but what if the situation was worse and he wasn't around to admit anything. In this specific situation, it sounds like the guy made a dumb move, to which he admits. It seems like there are some things you have done to help reduce the possibility of this happening and to reduce your liability, which you don't admit.

Even if this wasn't your fault, a jury could determine it was, especially if there were small kids left behind, etc. I'm not saying to live your life in fear of the lawyers, but we should all be continuously learning, reevaluating, and improving our processes and safety.
 
Tom strikes me as an old school simple guy. Nothing wrong with that, unless he's supposed to be a task supervisor during a task that can take your freaking head off.
 
What we have here are two different arguments. On one side we have the legal argument. The one where we are concerned about legal responsibility in our litigious society. In this argument we must CYA. The second argument is the personal responsibility argument. It's the one where an adult with full knowledge that an activity is dangerous and they can be hurt accepts that and takes responsibility when they do, in fact get hurt. Both are valid, but mutually exclusive.
 
mscard88 said:
Ha! Now that is funny coming from you man. Obviously you don't think things through (re prop strike) so maybe you should heed your own advice. You must be a pleasure to be around.
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Well? when you keep coming up with the wrong deductions, what'll people think?
 
SmashTime said:
Tom strikes me as an old school simple guy. Nothing wrong with that, unless he's supposed to be a task supervisor during a task that can take your freaking head off.
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Get it thru your head, I was not supervising, you can not supervise an inspection.

Under your theory we could be setting at the coffee shop having a brew, I reach over and slap your coffee into your lap, and it's your fault. because you were supposed to know coffee is hot and a cup can tip over.
 
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