Custom Checklist - PA 28

[WannFly]

I am trying to come up with a custom checklist and so far have this as a draft version. This will be refined over time, but wanted to get some initial thoughts from POA gallery. You will notice some unusual things like Lights once on stays on until landing, that's my usual practice, all lights comes on at engine start and stays on until i am about to shut down. This checklist is created based on my usual flow of Do & Check.



Thoughts?

 

[Sinistar]

Shorter than mine and you have a fuel pump and fancy avionics (ie. AP)! Didnt see a vacuum check or some expected parameters such as run up rpm. Not really needed, just wondering. Last comment is about order vs just verify it's all done. For example during startup, right after start up i have oil pressure within 10 sec and then a brake check are my next 2 item which I do in that order . Not saying yours needs order, just wasnt sure if you were calling out a specific order.

Your list raises a general question. You know your plane in/out. So you dont need specific values. But should a checklist have enough detail so that another pilot can figure it out w/o having to refer to the original checklist.

Oh yeah, when I made mine my wife's first comment was no shutdown section LOL!

 

[jordane93]

Looks pretty good to me. The only thing that I’d get rid of is the radio calls on the engine start & pre-taxi checklist. I don’t think you need to remind yourself to get the ATIS and taxi clearance. I’d also add a shutdown and secure checklist.

 

[Scrabo]

Maybe overkill but we use this for the Dakota

 

[denverpilot]

For butt preservation : I never make a modified checklist that doesn’t include every item in the manufacturer’s checklist.

I figure some bureaucrat will happily hang me in an accident report with “the use of a non-standard checklist was a contributing factor to the pilot error.”

Just something to think about. Augment vs remove.

Many do remove and I don’t have any problem with it. I just won’t do it myself.

 

[k9medic]

For me, landings lights and strobes come on when I enter the runway. Landing lights go off when I establish cruise.

All lights except Anti collision get turned off (and nav if at night) when I exit the runway. Transponder gets turned to standby,

I use the saying "lights (strobes and landing), camera (transponder to ALT), action (ready for departure)

 

[AU_James]

I had a similar thought with the lights. Curious about your personal process with once they go on they stay on--is this the same at night vs day or when in the clouds? I think there are times (day VFR) when it makes sense to just flip them all on and leave them on until shutdown. But there are other times where it makes more sense to manage when/where you have them on or turn them off.

I also would personally include transponder to VFR on start up and to ALT before takeoff. Based at a D under a B, my transponder is never at 1200 when I land and I never think to adjust it before shutdown (it would be easy enough to change my flow as I turn off avionics and switches from right to left, it would be so easy to just include the transponder). I think I've always caught it after starting up to put it back to 1200 but I really should do that before shutdown.

Lastly, living in Florida (and even in Ohio during the summer) I would NEVER close and latch my door until my pre-takeoff checklist. Brief, mixture set, fuel pump on, primer locked, transponder to alt, flaps/trim set, radios set, door and window locked/latched. Opening the door is also informally part of my after-landing checklist. I'm probably already sweating by the time I do my run up and guarantee I'm sweating by the time I land so that blowing air is mandatory! When I have new passengers, I explain to them how to close/latch the door as soon as they get in, then have them open it again (for the safety brief/training of course) and tell them to keep it propped open until I have them close it again pre-takeoff.

Overall nice checklist that probably works well for you- just remember it'll always be a living document so mark on it and re-print every time you find something that isn't exactly right.

 

[asicer]

Is fuel flow and pressure not on the JPI? Seems redundant with respect to the line item above it.

"Set Nav+Audio on correct Comm+Transponder" seems strange to me. You have more than one Transponder?

Lastly, you need an after-landing section: "Point an sneer at high-wings."

 

[WannFly]

For butt preservation : I never make a modified checklist that doesn’t include every item in the manufacturer’s checklist.

I figure some bureaucrat will happily hang me in an accident report with “the use of a non-standard checklist was a contributing factor to the pilot error.”

Just something to think about. Augment vs remove.

Many do remove and I don’t have any problem with it. I just won’t do it myself.

great point. I wont remove the original one from the plane and that the one that will be used for Emergency. This one will augment (wink; wink) the normal one

 

[WannFly]

Shorter than mine and you have a fuel pump and fancy avionics (ie. AP)! Didnt see a vacuum check or some expected parameters such as run up rpm. Not really needed, just wondering. Last comment is about order vs just verify it's all done. For example during startup, right after start up i have oil pressure within 10 sec and then a brake check are my next 2 item which I do in that order . Not saying yours needs order, just wasnt sure if you were calling out a specific order.

Your list raises a general question. You know your plane in/out. So you dont need specific values. But should a checklist have enough detail so that another pilot can figure it out w/o having to refer to the original checklist.

Oh yeah, when I made mine my wife's first comment was no shutdown section LOL!

lol.. yah i added the shutdown part.
no Vac system for me anymore. also changed the order in the 2nd draft

 

[WannFly]

I had a similar thought with the lights. Curious about your personal process with once they go on they stay on--is this the same at night vs day or when in the clouds? I think there are times (day VFR) when it makes sense to just flip them all on and leave them on until shutdown. But there are other times where it makes more sense to manage when/where you have them on or turn them off.

I also would personally include transponder to VFR on start up and to ALT before takeoff. Based at a D under a B, my transponder is never at 1200 when I land and I never think to adjust it before shutdown (it would be easy enough to change my flow as I turn off avionics and switches from right to left, it would be so easy to just include the transponder). I think I've always caught it after starting up to put it back to 1200 but I really should do that before shutdown.

Lastly, living in Florida (and even in Ohio during the summer) I would NEVER close and latch my door until my pre-takeoff checklist. Brief, mixture set, fuel pump on, primer locked, transponder to alt, flaps/trim set, radios set, door and window locked/latched. Opening the door is also informally part of my after-landing checklist. I'm probably already sweating by the time I do my run up and guarantee I'm sweating by the time I land so that blowing air is mandatory! When I have new passengers, I explain to them how to close/latch the door as soon as they get in, then have them open it again (for the safety brief/training of course) and tell them to keep it propped open until I have them close it again pre-takeoff.

Overall nice checklist that probably works well for you- just remember it'll always be a living document so mark on it and re-print every time you find something that isn't exactly right.

very good points. I am not IR yet, so no clouds. but you have a very valid point, strobes only comes on at night when entering the runway, for day VFR ops, all lights are on most times. the strobes usually come on entering runway and stays on until i land
i have exact same issue as you with the transponder. i am based in a D and never use 1200 while taking off / landing. but i do forget to set it to 1200 before shutdown
Door - I have always kept it closed, even in 100 degrees here (albeit rare), but that might change next yr if i end up moving to SE

 

[WannFly]

Is fuel flow and pressure not on the JPI? Seems redundant with respect to the line item above it.

"Set Nav+Audio on correct Comm+Transponder" seems strange to me. You have more than one Transponder?

Lastly, you need an after-landing section: "Point an sneer at high-wings."

it is on the JPI, but i also have the old gauges that i have to keep for legal ... my flow is to check and verify those crap are at least working before turning on the avionics master

about setting the transponder, well i have one that i usually set up right before taxi. that step is verify Navigation is set to wherever i am going, verify transponder is set to right squack and verify right comm is selected. more than once i havent changed the comm from 2 to one and happily transmitted over ground frq that i am ready for departure

I did make some changes since i posted the draft version above posted below

 

[WannFly]

Maybe overkill but we use this for the Dakota

View attachment 85720

i like your cheat-sheet on LF

 

[denverpilot]

great point. I wont remove the original one from the plane and that the one that will be used for Emergency. This one will augment (wink; wink) the normal one

Yeah. Technically you can’t remove the official one from the plane if it has one. Yours doesn’t count.

Whether or not any ramp check would ever notice or care... low... but most CFIs, and DPEs will.

“Airworthiness” is an FAA hot button right now and has been for a while. Too many old airplanes slowing up for checkrides that aren’t airworthy on paper, I heard was the trigger for that.

Bad maintenance records, missing placards, required documents not on board, equipment not working but not properly INOPed, you name it...

 

[WannFly]

alright folks ... Draft 1.1

 

[dmspilot]

Not my style, but what's important is if it works for you.
The inconsistency is weird though.
e.g.
Runup says "Fuel Pump ON"
Climb says "OFF - Fuel Pump"

 

[Sinistar]

@wannfky...what's your thoughts on not calling out MAGs Both under the pre-takeoff section. Same goes for carb heat. Obviously you tested it earlier so maybe you dont care.

Another thought. When I made my own my wife and CFI looked. One thing that was apparent was the need to separate Run-up from pre-takeoff. It was basically a simple observation especially during training. You run up once but might do 6 takeoffs during that same flight. So having the pre-takeoff section separate really worked for me. Dumb example...could care less if doors and windows shut during run-up, almost always open in hot summer. But definitely want them shut right before takeoff.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Reinventing the wheel.

 

[WannFly]

@wannfky...what's your thoughts on not calling out MAGs Both under the pre-takeoff section. Same goes for carb heat. Obviously you tested it earlier so maybe you dont care.

Another thought. When I made my own my wife and CFI looked. One thing that was apparent was the need to separate Run-up from pre-takeoff. It was basically a simple observation especially during training. You run up once but might do 6 takeoffs during that same flight. So having the pre-takeoff section separate really worked for me. Dumb example...could care less if doors and windows shut during run-up, almost always open in hot summer. But definitely want them shut right before takeoff.

Re : Runup and mags on both/ Carb. my normal SOP for run up is to the run up at a leaned mixture and observe the EGT graph and not the RPM drop at 2000. it is so lean that if i forget to put mags on both and do a full throttle, I would instantly know. some of my check list items are also based on flow that i have been doing for last 3 years or so and some of them i verbalize and hear. I have done it for so long that if i dont hear it, i know something is missed. for example, checklist or not, after i get take off clearance i will verbalize the following, in that order:

Fuel pump on
Mixture rich
Lights on
carb heat off
flaps up
trim set
final clear
runway number match heading

before i cross the runway. thats not the time to fumble with check list. there are times when i will get a hold short. in that case my SOP is the lean the mixture, but leave everything alone and do the verbal flow again once i receive my take off clearance. door and window has historically always been locked, unless there is a CFI next to me who prefers to keep it open. once i am buckled in, i aint playing with the latch. now that may change next yr.

I have similar flow for engine start (hence called out in one line and not in details) where the original checklist doesnt make a whole lot of sense. for example, my engine start procedure in the original checklist is a 7 step process starting with Master on. well, if i forget Master On, she aint starting.

combining the run-up and pre-take off - this is something i have been thinking as well and I wont know until i fly for a while with this check list and revise as necessary. lets see some scenarios:

Flights at my home base:
Run up in the hold short area - run up and then you take off, so no need for separate pre-take off.
if i am doing touch and go or stop and go, no time for check list - go by memory items. there is always something landing behind you. in my student days i tried using the checklist on the runway during stop and go, didnt end very well.

Some other podunk airport :
in nearly every airport i have visited, run up right before take off. one exception was when we met at the fly in, i had to do the run up on the ramp

Some other towered airport:
so far, every other towered airport i have visited, run up before take off, not a separate run up pad

now all these might change based on where i go... will have to wait-see-revise

 

[Brad W]

For butt preservation : I never make a modified checklist that doesn’t include every item in the manufacturer’s checklist.

I figure some bureaucrat will happily hang me in an accident report with “the use of a non-standard checklist was a contributing factor to the pilot error.”

I personally feel that my brain can use the information better when it's in a more logical flow order AND if the useful stuff isn't hidden among a bunch of chaff that I don't need....case in point, things the thing jordane93 mentions

The only thing that I’d get rid of is the radio calls on the engine start & pre-taxi checklist. I don’t think you need to remind yourself to get the ATIS and taxi clearance.

I'll add this... if it's a plane you fly often and know really well, there's a whole lot more extra stuff on a checklist. I notice it a bit when I pulled out my customized cessna 172N checklist I made years ago...and getting into a similar 172N now after 16 years of not flying. I still feel like I had done a very good job with it and covered everything, but there are just a couple small points I found my self thinking it was just a touch too brief.

 

[Sinistar]

Re : Runup and mags on both/ Carb. my normal SOP for run up is to the run up at a leaned mixture and observe the EGT graph and not the RPM drop at 2000. it is so lean that if i forget to put mags on both and do a full throttle, I would instantly know. some of my check list items are also based on flow that i have been doing for last 3 years or so and some of them i verbalize and hear. I have done it for so long that if i dont hear it, i know something is missed. for example, checklist or not, after i get take off clearance i will verbalize the following, in that order:

Fuel pump on
Mixture rich
Lights on
carb heat off
flaps up
trim set
final clear
runway number match heading

before i cross the runway. thats not the time to fumble with check list. there are times when i will get a hold short. in that case my SOP is the lean the mixture, but leave everything alone and do the verbal flow again once i receive my take off clearance. door and window has historically always been locked, unless there is a CFI next to me who prefers to keep it open. once i am buckled in, i aint playing with the latch. now that may change next yr.

I have similar flow for engine start (hence called out in one line and not in details) where the original checklist doesnt make a whole lot of sense. for example, my engine start procedure in the original checklist is a 7 step process starting with Master on. well, if i forget Master On, she aint starting.

combining the run-up and pre-take off - this is something i have been thinking as well and I wont know until i fly for a while with this check list and revise as necessary. lets see some scenarios:

Flights at my home base:
Run up in the hold short area - run up and then you take off, so no need for separate pre-take off.
if i am doing touch and go or stop and go, no time for check list - go by memory items. there is always something landing behind you. in my student days i tried using the checklist on the runway during stop and go, didnt end very well.

Some other podunk airport :
in nearly every airport i have visited, run up right before take off. one exception was when we met at the fly in, i had to do the run up on the ramp

Some other towered airport:
so far, every other towered airport i have visited, run up before take off, not a separate run up pad

now all these might change based on where i go... will have to wait-see-revise

Maybe just addressing your response related to taking off and the checklist. Here is a non-training example. I leave our podunk airport to land at a nearby Delta just to stay sharp on the radio stuff and get in around more traffic. I land. I pull off the runway and clear the hold short lines. Crack the windows and run the after landing checklist (simple list). Then I get ground clearance and taxi for the departure. When I get up there (lets say I am #2). I do my pre-takeoff list with the exception of the mixture. Then I announce ready to go on tower frequency. I might still have the window open and its always leaned a bit but those are resolved as they clear me for takeoff. I shut the window, mixture rich and off. So i find it easy and always doing the pre-takeoff checklist right before taking off. Just not before announcing that I am ready.

I also do that same scenario each time I land and taxi back at the home base. Get up to the line. Quick pre-takeoff checklist. Then announce and go. Maybe you are doing the same thing and I just misunderstood. This pattern of taxi to depart. Hold short. Quickly pre-takeoff checklist, then announce and go has always worked for uncontrolled, controlled, no-delay, line-up and wait and intersection departures.

 

[Sinistar]

I can also see one thing that makes your list different than mine. I usually try and do the run-up as close to the ramp or as close to the startup location as possible. For example at FSD when we departed I did my quick run-up way out at the end of the ramp (it is a big ramp). The same at Omaha. The same at MSP At BRD I will do it on the taxiway or even way out at the edge of the ramp pointed away from everything. At Flying Cloud its a bit tighter (no run-up areas for 10L/28R) but I do it on the taxiway (making sure no one is right behind me). Heck, even at Falcon Field (Mesa) I think we had the run-up finished before reaching the run-up area...which appears to be busy with students that are moving a bit slower.

I think my first CFI drilled into me that you don't want to be doing your run-up right up near the hold short line, especially someplace busy. Figure out the plane problems much sooner if you can. Its good to be as ready as you can be. So if you are doing run-ups closer to the departure and I am doing my closer to engine startup the checklists will probably be different. My only other data point is Kari and she does the run-ups in the same place I do. But maybe the next 20 pilots all do them closer to departure after the majority of taxi. No clue actually. Obviously different for each airport scenario as well.

 

[WannFly]

I can also see one thing that makes your list different than mine. I usually try and do the run-up as close to the ramp or as close to the startup location as possible. For example at FSD when we departed I did my quick run-up way out at the end of the ramp (it is a big ramp). The same at Omaha. The same at MSP At BRD I will do it on the taxiway or even way out at the edge of the ramp pointed away from everything. At Flying Cloud its a bit tighter (no run-up areas for 10L/28R) but I do it on the taxiway (making sure no one is right behind me). Heck, even at Falcon Field (Mesa) I think we had the run-up finished before reaching the run-up area...which appears to be busy with students that are moving a bit slower.

I think my first CFI drilled into me that you don't want to be doing your run-up right up near the hold short line, especially someplace busy. Figure out the plane problems much sooner if you can. Its good to be as ready as you can be. So if you are doing run-ups closer to the departure and I am doing my closer to engine startup the checklists will probably be different. My only other data point is Kari and she does the run-ups in the same place I do. But maybe the next 20 pilots all do them closer to departure after the majority of taxi. No clue actually. Obviously different for each airport scenario as well.

good point and come to think of it both in FSD and OMA we did the runup on the ramp. I will have to think this through some more and make more adjustments

 

[smv]

Yeah. Technically you can’t remove the official one from the plane if it has one. Yours doesn’t count.

As long as you have the POH, you have the 'official' checklist. Anything else is supplementary.

 

[smv]

I can also see one thing that makes your list different than mine. I usually try and do the run-up as close to the ramp or as close to the startup location as possible.

I prefer doing the runup as close to departure as possible. Especially if a long taxi is involved. Gives the oil enough time to properly warm up before ragging the engine any higher than necessary to taxi. Also, if the plugs happen to foul up if I did not lean sufficiently during the taxi, it gives me the chance to detect that before the takeoff roll.

 

[sarangan]

For butt preservation : I never make a modified checklist that doesn’t include every item in the manufacturer’s checklist.

I figure some bureaucrat will happily hang me in an accident report with “the use of a non-standard checklist was a contributing factor to the pilot error.”

Just something to think about. Augment vs remove.

Many do remove and I don’t have any problem with it. I just won’t do it myself.

Checklists are abbreviated versions of the official POH that each pilot should make for their own. It should include things that they are likely to forget. I don't need "Avionics On" on my checklist, because I never forget it, and even if I do, it won't be catastrophic. I also don't need "Ignition switch start" because I know the airplane won't fly unless I start the engine But the official POH includes all these items. Its silly to walk around with the complete checklist that the lawyers wrote for the company.

 

[cowman]

Looks fine to me does it work for you?

IMO a checklist in a simple single engine GA airplane should be to remind you to do all the things that you need to do. You should know how to fly that airplane before you take it up without an instructor. The checklist doesn't need to go into instruction manual detail like I feel many of them do. It's just to make sure you don't miss any of the dozen+ things we need to make sure we looked at/did before takeoff. If it's accomplishing that for you and your aircraft then it's a good checklist to me.

 

[MikeNY]

-For preflight, consider segregating outside aircraft inspection from inside cockpit checks
-Does the aircraft have an Annunciator.
-Turning on landing light and nav lights before engine start? ... instead, beacon only (or if not separate, strobes).
-Flaps, as part of Climb check.
(flaps 25 takeoff less common for PA28 but can be appropriate; climb checklist reminder to retract flaps. Aircraft performance will be evident reminder, but still relevant for checklist)
-G5 takes several seconds to power down. Consider a separate checklist item (to ensure the G5 is fully powered down before mixture to idle/cutoff)
-For shutdown, after Mixture-Idle/Cutoff .... Mags/Ignition-OFF, Beacon-OFF, Master/Alternator-OFF.

 

[Brad W]

I prefer doing the runup as close to departure as possible. Especially if a long taxi is involved. Gives the oil enough time to properly warm up before ragging the engine any higher than necessary to taxi. Also, if the plugs happen to foul up if I did not lean sufficiently during the taxi, it gives me the chance to detect that before the takeoff roll.

my thoughts as well regarding when/where to do it.
but I also like some aspects of the idea to do it earlier and closer to the ramp. Maybe there's something to the idea of doing some of it early then holding for some for the run-up area

I don't need "Avionics On" on my checklist, because I never forget it, and even if I do, it won't be catastrophic. I also don't need "Ignition switch start" because I know the airplane won't fly unless I start the engine But the official POH includes all these items. Its silly to walk around with the complete checklist that the lawyers wrote for the company.

great examples!

 

[Domenick]

I have 3, two-sided checklists for the Warrior, Preflight/Start, GroundCheck/Takeoff/Landing, and Emergency Procedures. They're editable.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl2x7igxbz4heku/Checklist.Preflight.Start.v2.docx?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6juavs3njify7cy/Checklist.Ground.Takeoff.Landing.v2.docx?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf5oab5xmpyrmoo/Checklist.Emergency.Procedures.v2.docx?dl=1

Fold down the middle and slip into half a page protector.

 

[bflynn]

For butt preservation : I never make a modified checklist that doesn’t include every item in the manufacturer’s checklist.

I figure some bureaucrat will happily hang me in an accident report with “the use of a non-standard checklist was a contributing factor to the pilot error.”

So, add a step before touching down on the "Emergency Landing" checklist that says "destroy this checklist".

 

[asicer]

alright folks ... Draft 1.1

How does it look after you import it into the GTN750's checklist editor?

 

[smv]

I have 3, two-sided checklists for the Warrior, Preflight/Start, GroundCheck/Takeoff/Landing, and Emergency Procedures. They're editable.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wl2x7igxbz4heku/Checklist.Preflight.Start.v2.docx?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6juavs3njify7cy/Checklist.Ground.Takeoff.Landing.v2.docx?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf5oab5xmpyrmoo/Checklist.Emergency.Procedures.v2.docx?dl=1

Fold down the middle and slip into half a page protector.

I am curious as to your flap settings for takeoff. The POH I use for the PA-28-161 says normal takeoff is accomplished with flaps up and gives various situations where you would use 25° but never mentions 10° at all for takeoff.

 

[WannFly]

How does it look after you import it into the GTN750's checklist editor?

i havent done it yet, still on the fence if i should use the GTN checklist functionality. i have the default checklist on Garmin Pilot that i never used

 

[WDD]

For me, landings lights and strobes come on when I enter the runway. Landing lights go off when I establish cruise.

All lights except Anti collision get turned off (and nav if at night) when I exit the runway. Transponder gets turned to standby,

I use the saying "lights (strobes and landing), camera (transponder to ALT), action (ready for departure)

Never understood the Camera part of that. When you start up and power up electronics, you make sure your transponder is 1200 (assuming VFR flying). When would you ever not have it on ALT? At start up, strobe on. Then all lights on when I enter the runway, and lights off except for strobe when I exit runway. I just leave everything on when flying during the day - can't hurt and might help a wee bit to be seen.

 

[WDD]

So, add a step before touching down on the "Emergency Landing" checklist that says "destroy this checklist".

Call your new checklist - "Check list B" or "2nd checklist", which implies you followed the original one as well which you will always carry with you and have out and right beside your new one.

 

[jordane93]

When would you ever not have it on ALT?

It should be on standby on the ground unless the airport requires you to have it on for ground surveillance. All of the planes that I fly switch automatically to ALT so I don’t really have to worry about the transponder.

 

[WannFly]

Call your new checklist - "Check list B" or "2nd checklist", which implies you followed the original one as well which you will always carry with you and have out and right beside your new one.

i wonder how many people actually pulls out the POH and use that official check list or have a copy made of that page and use that one. that checklist is less a checklist and more of how to do x or y sorta thing.

 

[WannFly]

It should be on standby on the ground unless the airport requires you to have it on for ground surveillance. All of the planes that I fly switch automatically to ALT so I don’t really have to worry about the transponder.

same here, but here is what i found on the GTX 345 manual:

The transponder system no longer supports a pilot selectable GND mode. The transponder should always be in ALT mode prior to moving on the airport surface. It must be in ALT mode when operating in certain controlled airspace, in accordance with 14 CFR 91.215. For guidance on transponder operation, refer to the FAA Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM), 4-1-20(a)(3). When on the ground or in the air always operate the transponder in ALT mode, unless otherwise requested by ATC. It is acceptable to go directly from OFF to ALT mode. It is not necessary to place in SBY mode for a “warm up” period. The transponder automatically determines whether the aircraft is in the air or on the ground and sends that information to other aircraft and ATC.

Automatic ALT Mode Switching If the unit is configured for Automated Airborne Determination and senses a transition from on ground to in air, the unit automatically switches from SBY to ALT mode.

 

[dmspilot]

It should be on standby on the ground

No, that has not been the SOP in the AIM for almost a decade.