CS prop on O-300?

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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Are there any O-300 installations with constant speed props? Is such a thing even possible?
 
I have a friend with an early skyhawk (O-300), with a hydraulically controllable two pitch propellor.....
 
NC19143 said:
Yes

thee are several constant speed applications for the 0-300 and the GO-300
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom...

Now, I'm wondering in relation to the Swift. What are the chances I'd be able to add a CS prop to a 145hp O-300 equipped Swift via 337? How much would such an undertaking cost? (I'd be perfectly happy with a used prop/hub and I'd guess a new spinner would have to be part of the package too?)

Of course, a nice new 3-blade MT composite prop (lighter) would be nice too, if one of theirs is compatible...
 
bbchien said:
I have a friend with an early skyhawk (O-300), with a hydraulically controllable two pitch propellor.....
Click to expand...

Bruce,

Do you know if the prop has a name? WRT Swifts, I have seen reference to "Aeromatic" and "Beech controllable" props. IIRC a complex airplane requires a "controllable pitch" prop, not necessarily a constant speed prop.

EDIT: Confirmed. Does not have to be constant speed, simply "controllable pitch."

§ 61.129 Aeronautical experience.

(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(1) of this part that includes at least—

(ii) 10 hours of training in an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, or is turbine-powered, or for an applicant seeking a single-engine seaplane rating, 10 hours of training in a seaplane that has flaps and a controllable pitch propeller;
Click to expand...
 
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The only O-300 series engine that accommodates a constant speed prop that I can think of is the GO-300E in the '63 P172D which was the successor to the 175. None of the rest of them have a governor drive. No prop governor means no constant speed prop. There are some C-145 and O-300B's around that allow for an oil pressure controlled 2 position prop.
 
My Bad,, thinking controlable and saying constant speed.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Are there any O-300 installations with constant speed props? Is such a thing even possible?
Click to expand...

Kent,

I knew right were you were going with that question, because I've looked into it myself. If there were thousands of Swifts sitting around, it would be nice to pick up a run-out 145hp and install one of the 4-cylinder Lycoming STCs.

Of course finding a straight and sound Swift is getting hard these days, and people tend to think a fixer-upper is worth 95% of the price of a clean one. I guess with clean 150+ hp Swifts selling for $75K+, maybe you could come close to breaking even if you did an engine swap. I've never seen an STC for the variable-pitch O-300, though.

It's a funny thing, but it's pretty darn hard to find a clean 60-year-old airplane. And if you do, it's going to be expensive, even if the engine has some time on it. Every time I've entertained my Swift fantasy, I've had a hard time justifying it over a new RV-7 or -8.

Want to start a 2-plane, 2-man flying club with a nice, green C140 and a 210 Swift? I'm game!

Matthew
 
Despite the lack of a hollow crank or other capability to put on a hydraulic prop, the Hoffman MT electric prop would be an option. The only issue would be finding enough folks who want to spend $10K plus installation to make the STC worth developing.
 
Ron Levy said:
Despite the lack of a hollow crank or other capability to put on a hydraulic prop, the Hoffman MT electric prop would be an option. The only issue would be finding enough folks who want to spend $10K plus installation to make the STC worth developing.
Click to expand...

The 0-300 has a hollow crank. but no gov. pad. the 2 speeds and other props that have the prop installed on the nose of the engine work well.
 
Globe Swift has been described as the most modified aircraft in America.

IMHO the best engine mod is the TSIO 360-KB off the nose of the Piper Arrow, constant speed and all. but be ready for a nose heavy aircraft that when you think brakes, your up on the mains before you can believe it.

Friend of mine in AWO has one and he says he see speeds of 240k with it at 5000'.

Here is one ready to go with 0-300- and 2 speed prop. and cute

http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_...p=falsexxxxxsearchid=13844842xxxxxregionid=-1
 
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foka4 said:
I knew right were you were going with that question, because I've looked into it myself. If there were thousands of Swifts sitting around, it would be nice to pick up a run-out 145hp and install one of the 4-cylinder Lycoming STCs.
Click to expand...

I can't even find a runout at all, of any horsepower! I suppose you could sell the engine if it's not run out, though.

There is a 180 with 1400 SMOH but the ad says "annual due 9/02." :hairraise:

Of course finding a straight and sound Swift is getting hard these days, and people tend to think a fixer-upper is worth 95% of the price of a clean one. I guess with clean 150+ hp Swifts selling for $75K+, maybe you could come close to breaking even if you did an engine swap. I've never seen an STC for the variable-pitch O-300, though.

It's a funny thing, but it's pretty darn hard to find a clean 60-year-old airplane. And if you do, it's going to be expensive, even if the engine has some time on it. Every time I've entertained my Swift fantasy, I've had a hard time justifying it over a new RV-7 or -8.
Click to expand...

I'd definitely need a partner to afford it, but a 210hp Continental IO-360 with a 3-blade composite MT prop would sure be nice!

Want to start a 2-plane, 2-man flying club with a nice, green C140 and a 210 Swift? I'm game!
Click to expand...

That'd be really cool if I fit in a 140. :( Trade it for a Super Cub and I'm in! :yes:
 
Ron Levy said:
Despite the lack of a hollow crank or other capability to put on a hydraulic prop, the Hoffman MT electric prop would be an option. The only issue would be finding enough folks who want to spend $10K plus installation to make the STC worth developing.
Click to expand...

What type of prop is that?

Heck with everyone else, I'd just go for a 337.
 
I think I mentioned this before but... Find an IFR swift with a controllable prop that you want to share and I'll mortgage my house. Tony will be here this spring and we can do our instrument and commercial ratings with him. He'll work for Twizzlers.


foka4 said:
Kent,

I knew right were you were going with that question, because I've looked into it myself. If there were thousands of Swifts sitting around, it would be nice to pick up a run-out 145hp and install one of the 4-cylinder Lycoming STCs.

Of course finding a straight and sound Swift is getting hard these days, and people tend to think a fixer-upper is worth 95% of the price of a clean one. I guess with clean 150+ hp Swifts selling for $75K+, maybe you could come close to breaking even if you did an engine swap. I've never seen an STC for the variable-pitch O-300, though.

It's a funny thing, but it's pretty darn hard to find a clean 60-year-old airplane. And if you do, it's going to be expensive, even if the engine has some time on it. Every time I've entertained my Swift fantasy, I've had a hard time justifying it over a new RV-7 or -8.

Want to start a 2-plane, 2-man flying club with a nice, green C140 and a 210 Swift? I'm game!

Matthew
Click to expand...
 
wby0nder said:
I think I mentioned this before but... Find an IFR swift with a controllable prop that you want to share and I'll mortgage my house. Tony will be here this spring and we can do our instrument and commercial ratings with him. He'll work for Twizzlers.
Click to expand...

sounds good.

work4food-741846.jpg


just dont default on the mortgage. there isnt room in the travel trailer for both of us
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Thanks Tom...

Now, I'm wondering in relation to the Swift. What are the chances I'd be able to add a CS prop to a 145hp O-300 equipped Swift via 337? How much would such an undertaking cost? (I'd be perfectly happy with a used prop/hub and I'd guess a new spinner would have to be part of the package too?)

Of course, a nice new 3-blade MT composite prop (lighter) would be nice too, if one of theirs is compatible...
Click to expand...

NO chance. read my post. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingcheesehead
Thanks Tom...

Now, I'm wondering in relation to the Swift. What are the chances I'd be able to add a CS prop to a 145hp O-300 equipped Swift via 337? How much would such an undertaking cost? (I'd be perfectly happy with a used prop/hub and I'd guess a new spinner would have to be part of the package too?)

Of course, a nice new 3-blade MT composite prop (lighter) would be nice too, if one of theirs is compatible...



charlie said:
NO chance. read my post. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
Click to expand...

I think Johnny Cash said "with an adaptor kit we'll make it fit."
 
NC19143 said:
I think Johnny Cash said "with an adaptor kit we'll make it fit."
Click to expand...

the motor turned out to be a 73 and the transmission was a 63 and when we put it together all the holes were wrong. but we drilled it out so that it would fit and with a little bit of help from an adapater kit, we had that engine runnin just like a song.

there ya go kent, just build your dream plane one piece at a time.
 
I think that you need to really add some power. Maybe a PT6? That should give you some nice climb performance!

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
I think that you need to really add some power. Maybe a PT6? That should give you some nice climb performance!

~ Christopher
Click to expand...

Too much... I'm not rated for rotorcraft! :rofl:

It'd never work anyway. You'd run out of fuel in about 3 seconds!
 
charlie said:
NO chance. read my post. Charlie Melot Zephyr Aircraft Engines
Click to expand...

Thanks Charlie. I guess the next step is to find out if the Aeromatic prop is acceptable. It'd also be nice to see what they go for and if they become available very often. I'm guessing they're impossible to get new. I have no idea who made them.
 
wby0nder said:
I think I mentioned this before but... Find an IFR swift with a controllable prop that you want to share and I'll mortgage my house. Tony will be here this spring and we can do our instrument and commercial ratings with him. He'll work for Twizzlers.
Click to expand...

Lowell here at 3M3 is selling his Magic One:

http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/forsale.htm
http://www.napanet.net/~arbeau/swift/sm.htm
http://www.neurobellum.com/magicteam.htm
http://www.neurobellum.com/magicteam/magic1.htm
http://towacoimaging.com/swift.htm
http://www.cherokeecounty-nc.gov/departments/airport/smagic-1.jpg
http://aviation-ebooks.com/dsc01988b.jpg

If I had some extra cash laying around, this is a nice plane.
 
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I know that this question will probably get me flogged on this thread, but:

Isn't that kind of a small airplane for IFR? Yes, I know you can have a 150 etc. IFR certified, but doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
Isn't that kind of a small airplane for IFR? Yes, I know you can have a 150 etc. IFR certified, but doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?
Click to expand...
Depends on the purpose. If your purpose is point-to-point transportation, then an IFR C-150 is probably not a good use of your money unless the points aren't too far apart and you only fly solo. If your purpose is instrument training, it might be a good choice.

BTW, back when Fran and I were young, and weighed less than 300 lb put together, and Ben didn't exist, and we never went farther than Kentucky to Maryland, our IFR Yankee was a good plane for us. When that stopped working, we upgraded to a Cheetah, but for four years, it was a cost-effective choice.
 
tonycondon said:
sounds good.

work4food-741846.jpg


just dont default on the mortgage. there isnt room in the travel trailer for both of us
Click to expand...
He hasn't extolled to you the virtues of living in a VW?:eek:

jwriteclub said:
I know that this question will probably get me flogged on this thread, but:

Isn't that kind of a small airplane for IFR? Yes, I know you can have a 150 etc. IFR certified, but doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?
~ Christopher
Click to expand...
What is "the" purpose of IFR that requires a larger airplane? Obviously if you're trying to carry your family of 6, a Swift isn't going to work, but if you're travelling alone or in pairs (without making slinkety sounds ;)), a Swift might be a good option.

Fly safe!

David
 
I figure it's more of a speed and range issue.

I usually file IFR when I am "going" somewhere and fly long legs. It is easier to fly a long leg if 1) you go fast and 2) you have enough fuel to go quite a ways.

~ Christopher
 
jwriteclub said:
I know that this question will probably get me flogged on this thread, but:

Isn't that kind of a small airplane for IFR? Yes, I know you can have a 150 etc. IFR certified, but doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

~ Christopher
Click to expand...

I used to have a 200hp IFR Midget Mustang, (doesn't get much smaller than that) that I used to commute between the ranch in N.TX and work in S.LA. Turned a 7-8hr drive (once 10 because of an accident shutting down I-20 for 3 hrs) using 30 gallons of fuel into a 2+hr flight using 20 gallons. In over 2 years, I only had to fall back and take the truck 3 times due to basically unavoidable icing along the route. Can't imagine a plane that would have suited the task better. Had it not been an IFR platform, my dispatch rate on that route would have been closer to 30%.
 
NC19143 said:
IMHO the best engine mod is the TSIO 360-KB off the nose of the Piper Arrow, constant speed and all.
Click to expand...

Tom,

Who owns that STC? How much? If I was gonna do that, I'd probably be trying to find one that had some time on it instead of a new one to save some dough. I wonder how many of those are even available...

but be ready for a nose heavy aircraft that when you think brakes, your up on the mains before you can believe it.
Click to expand...

I'd have to be sure I could still sit in it myself. ;)

Friend of mine in AWO has one and he says he see speeds of 240k with it at 5000'.
Click to expand...

You mean 140? Knots, or MPH? 240 is well above Vne, and it's a mph airplane (1946-1951).

I got to sit in a couple of Swifts on Friday and talk to Duane Golding, who's rebuilt several of them. I wouldn't have fit in the first one I sat in, but Duane said he's seen plenty of Swift flyers my size, and I fit in the one he's rebuilding much better than the first one. So, I might just need to re-do the seats if I get one.
 
Ron Levy said:
Despite the lack of a hollow crank or other capability to put on a hydraulic prop, the Hoffman MT electric prop would be an option. The only issue would be finding enough folks who want to spend $10K plus installation to make the STC worth developing.
Click to expand...

Well, I finally got word back from MT:

Mr. Shook,

Thank you very much for your interest in the electro propeller offered by MT
Propeller USA. Unfortunately our hub system does not work on the tapered
shaft of the TCM O-300. Therefore we can not offer you a propeller for this
aircraft.
Click to expand...

Doh! Tapered shaft?

Oh well...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, I finally got word back from MT:



Doh! Tapered shaft?

Oh well...
Click to expand...
0-300 doesn't have a tapered shaft.. it has a flange of 2 varieties, 6 hole and 8 hole depandant upon the model number C-145s that you find in the swifts will have the the 6 hole. the 0-300-D will have the 8 hole.

"MT" junky prop anyway, they are a new prop system that already has an AD

Plus they don't know what their prop will fit :)
 

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