Crosswind landings

midlifeflyer said:
Here's the thing. The (accurate) theory of wing low is there to help us understand the phenomenon. But a lot of pilots, especially at the beginning, put blinders on and fly the theory. Reported winds from the right, so they crank in the right aileron, blind to what the airplane is actually doing. I've seen pilots do their best to force one wheel onto the ground based on windsock and reported wind when the crosswind was gone just above the runway. IOW, one wheel down with no crosswind! You can see the same thing with ground reference maneuvers. Pilots who crab and bank based on what they think the wind is doing rather than visualizing a circle and flying around it.

The funny part is that where you really do have to turn fully into the crosswind based on anticipation - during rollout - is the part many pilots forget.
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Yeah, it's a lot like driving a car. A new driver is trying to think about everything separately (lane position, distance from the car ahead, etc etc); but then it just clicks, and you don't have to consciously think about any of it any more. It was glorious when that happened with crosswind landings.

I also found crosswind landings a lot less dramatic after I switched from renting high-wing rental Cessna 172s to owning a low-wing Piper PA-28-161. I'm not sure about the physics behind that, but it at least feels easier (almost boring) with the lower wings, wider wheel base, and no rudder-aileron interconnect spring to mess with my control inputs.
 
David Megginson said:
no rudder-aileron interconnect spring to mess with my control inputs.
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Let's talk about this - I wasn't aware of a rudder-aileron interconnect spring in the 172. Is that common to them all? Does the 150 have that?
 
AggieMike88 said:
"Yeah, but look how wide it is!"
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Ooohh that reminds me of another thing that helped me get better at crosswind landings. And this probably isn't for everyone.

At my home airport, the runways are 100' wide. So there is lots of room to wander all over centerline if one so desires. When I flew with my CFI for private training, I was always trying for centerline and was always being told to hit centerline. After getting my private, I maybe got a bit.... lazy.

It wasn't until I started venturing out to airports with runways of 40' that I really started focusing on getting on centerline again.... for good reason. Practicing crosswind landings on a narrow(ish) runway is one way I got better at it. Less room for error, I guess.
 
AndyMac said:
Let's talk about this - I wasn't aware of a rudder-aileron interconnect spring in the 172. Is that common to them all? Does the 150 have that?
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Here's what Leighton Collins wrote in Takeoffs and Landings:

The way to check for a rudder/aileron spring is to make a taxiing turn with hands off the wheel and see if the wheel moves to "bank" the airplane in the direction of the turn. In some tricycles the spring is strong enough to make it possible to steer along the taxiway with wheel only.
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You can also notice on climbout, because if there's a spring you probably have to hold a bit of left aileron pressure to keep the plane from banking to the right when you're using right rudder to compensate for yaw.

It's there primarily not to help with coordinated turns, but as a hack around a design problem with an airplane — a pilot has to be able to unbank the plane using rudder alone for certification, but some aircraft don't have enough rudder authority to do that, so the spring is an FAA-authorised cheat.
 
Deelee said:
At my home airport, the runways are 100' wide. So there is lots of room to wander all over centerline if one so desires. When I flew with my CFI for private training, I was always trying for centerline and was always being told to hit centerline. After getting my private, I maybe got a bit.... lazy.

It wasn't until I started venturing out to airports with runways of 40' that I really started focusing on getting on centerline again.... for good reason. Practicing crosswind landings on a narrow(ish) runway is one way I got better at it. Less room for error, I guess.
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Keep the white stripes between the mains. Doesn't matter how wide the runway is. That is always my goal with my students. I can tell you, the DPEs I've sent students have noticed and made mention of how impressed they are.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Keep the white stripes between the mains
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Love it. My landings (crosswind or otherwise) got even better when someone told me to fight for the centerline. Not sure what they really meant by it, but to me it means I am doing everything I can to have that nosewheel lowering on centerline after the mains touch down. Something about that phrase gets me into sort of a 'challenge accepted' frame of mind when landing... meaning don't settle for just landing on the runway in any position - strive for perfection - drifting a little left of centerline... don't just settle for it - put in some right aileron to get back on center. Nose pointed a bit to the side - don't settle for a chirpy, side-loaded skid of a landing even if the airplane can take it - use your feet and get that nose pointed down the centerline!! Stuff like that....
 
David Megginson said:
Yeah, it's a lot like driving a car. A new driver is trying to think about everything separately (lane position, distance from the car ahead, etc etc); but then it just clicks, and you don't have to consciously think about any of it any more. It was glorious when that happened with crosswind landings.

I also found crosswind landings a lot less dramatic after I switched from renting high-wing rental Cessna 172s to owning a low-wing Piper PA-28-161. I'm not sure about the physics behind that, but it at least feels easier (almost boring) with the lower wings, wider wheel base, and no rudder-aileron interconnect spring to mess with my control inputs.
Click to expand...

Yup, same thing about the 172s, they are like kites in the crosswinds IMO. You just have to be aware and don't let it get out of control. I still think they are great planes though.
 
AndyMac said:
Let's talk about this - I wasn't aware of a rudder-aileron interconnect spring in the 172. Is that common to them all? Does the 150 have that?
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The seaplane versions of the 172 have that interconnect, and if the airplane is on wheels it'll still be there. It's pretty feeble, though. Really light springs. I think it was part of the certification requirements for the float installation. Never seen an interconnect in a 150.
 
PaulS said:
Yup, same thing about the 172s, they are like kites in the crosswinds IMO. You just have to be aware and don't let it get out of control. I still think they are great planes though.
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The 172's rudder is less powerful than the 150's, making strong crosswinds a bit of a pain. Slips, too, are tame because of such limited rudder authority.

And the 150's flaps are way more effective than the 172's.
 
Dan Thomas said:
The 172's rudder is less powerful than the 150's, making strong crosswinds a bit of a pain. Slips, too, are tame because of such limited rudder authority.

And the 150's flaps are way more effective than the 172's.
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Unless it's the 172 with 40 degrees of flaps, those are awesome.
 
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