Crosswind Landings/Sideslip to landing

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Garth

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Garth
Hi Everyone,

I'm having a difficult time landing in Crosswind conditions and Side Slipping to landing, do you guys any and recommendations/Advice.
 
How far along in your training?
And welcome.
 
"Wing down, top rudder". I thought that was all one had to know. Yeah, high winds or gusty add a few knots for Mom & the kids.
 
Mostly practice, first in light crosswinds, then more as you figure it out.

Doing it right didn't really click hour 100 or so in the log book. And I knew I had it down once I had SixPappaCharlie with me and he's braced against the passenger door saying "ohmygodohmygodohmygod" as we land in Borger, TX. Story at this link: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67522

Crosswind landings is a skill you don't pick up immediately. But it's one you need to learn and practice. As with many things, with practice it becomes easier.
 
Put the wing down hard and use the rudder to keep it pointed the direction you want. Don't be timid.

If at least one control isn't against the stop, it's not much of a slip.
 
Come in a little fast, level out just above the runway, lean that plane into the wind. Touch down on one wheel if you can (if you have enough wind). Aileron into the wind.
 
You have to think about using the controls separately. Look at the far end of the runway and use rudder to align the airplane's longitudinal axis parallel to the centerline (in other words, point the airplane straight with your feet, don't point it into the wind). Then use bank to prevent drift and keep the airplane over the centerline. The wind can change or swirl around close the ground, so it often takes constant adjustments.
 
Garth said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm having a difficult time landing in Crosswind conditions and Side Slipping to landing, do you guys any and recommendations/Advice.
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Keep the airplane tracking the centerline with aileron, keep it aligned with rudder.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Put the wing down hard and use the rudder to keep it pointed the direction you want. Don't be timid.
.
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This ^^, also you should practice controlling the orientation of the nose on final. I mean really kick the rudder back and forth with the plane banked towards the wind. This will give you a general feel of how important it is to control with the rudder in landing. You will not break the plane!

My biggest issue learning to land in general was using the rudder generously. This suddenly clicked a bit after my PPL and made me feel much more as if I am the one in control of the landing vs the plane landing itself. Also, if it's a strong enough crosswind and you are smooth in the landing you should feel the wheel on the side the wind is coming from touch first followed by the other wheel a bit later, and finally the nose wheel.
 
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Garth said:
I'm having a difficult time landing in Crosswind conditions and Side Slipping to landing, do you guys any and recommendations/Advice.
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You have to divorce your hands from your feet. Focus on using bank angle to manage lateral movement to keep the plane on the extended centerline while using your feet on the rudders to keep the nose pointed down the runway. Kicking out of the crab early (say, not long after you turn final) rather than just as you enter the flare gives you more time to practice that and get stabilized. Finally (assuming tricycle gear), remember that it's OK to land one wheel at a time -- upwind main, downwind main, then nose.
 
Hi Garth. Welcome to the Blue Board.

Try flying down the runway at maybe 10' or so and seeing how the ailerons perform as you keep the nose pointed down the runway and slide back and forth using the aileron. You can get a feel for things this way. Practice this a little. When landing in a crosswind, stay on top of the airplane and don't quit flying it until you stop.
 
Also, I would do a few passes where I'd setup a longer than usual final and practice orienting the nose left, aligned, and right repeatedly while maintaining drift control with aileron. Once again, do not be afraid to throw the airplane around a bit with the rudder control, it will not break as long as you maintain adequate airspeed..(ie don't get slow while doing all this and bring it into a stalled condition)

Also, make sure you are always conscious of the wind direction on landing. I know it can get exhausting having to keep up with everything else. In my situation, I was just happy to have made it around the pattern or back to the airport considering how busy and complicated the airspace is, but this is going to be a very important tidbit of information to help you plan your base turn (overshoot/undershoot) and visualize how you will correct for the crosswind.

Learning to fly is so fun, eventually this will click and it will become a matter of smoothing it all out and getting a "feel" for the airplane.
 
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somorris said:
Hi Garth. Welcome to the Blue Board.

Try flying down the runway at maybe 10' or so and seeing how the ailerons perform as you keep the nose pointed down the runway and slide back and forth using the aileron. You can get a feel for things this way. Practice this a little. When landing in a crosswind, stay on top of the airplane and don't quit flying it until you stop.
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This X100000. Break the landing down. Before I even practiced landings, my CFI would just request low approaches and had me line the plane up and coordinated with the runway so I could my feet and arms working and moving and to see the sight picture
 
Don't complicate it. Fly the airplane. Give it what it needs.

Do you conscientiously think about how much you're going to turn the wheel when you drive through a turn? No. You just do it.

On another note, I leave the crab in until I flare. Then, I kick it out.
 
Garth said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm having a difficult time landing in Crosswind conditions and Side Slipping to landing, do you guys any and recommendations/Advice.
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Both are the same maneuver, so once you get one you get the other. Crosswind just bank the plane into the wind to hold you upwind against the drift factor, and step on the downwind rudder to get your longitudinal alignment with the runway. As gusts hit, you'll need to add more rudder and aileron. When you have the rudder pedal to the floor and can just barely hold alignment, that's pretty much max crosswind. I have never come close to dragging a wing tip in any conditions I could hold the plane aligned with the rudder, so don't worry about the wing being too far down, give it as much as it takes to hold against the drift.

Side slipping to landing is the same basic thing, you are presenting the side of the aircraft to the relative wind increasing drag without increasing lift. On the cross wind landing the relative wind is angularly offset from your intended direction of travel, in the slip to landing the relative wind corresponds to your direction of travel. On the cross wind landing, you increase power to make up for the increased sink, on the slip to landing the increased sink is the objective. Personally I have found that slowing down straight ahead to the stall horn provides an even greater rate of sink with less energy accumulation than a slip, and is much more comfortable for passengers, in fact, they rarely notice since they are used to nose high airliner approaches. I rarely slip-to-land a plane except when alone, and then it's usually just a tap at the very bottom to lose some excess speed in a clean plane like a DA-20.
 
I have only had my PPL for two months and slipping to a landing was something that I never felt comfortable with until my actual checkride. Then I nailed it :D

Thanks to a little advice from a CFI giving me a mock checkride the week before! Here is what he told me:

Bank the wings first, and remember to always step on the uphill rudder. The easiest and best time to start your slip is when you turn from base to final. If you are coming onto final high, just keep the wings banked and step on the uphill rudder as the plane comes into alignment with the runway. Keep an eye on your airspeed and keep it on target by adjusting pitch, same as you would do with wings level.

I did this on my checkride while demonstrating a simulated engine out landing with a short approach. After the flight, the examiner actually complimented me on that particular landing. She was about ready to call for a go-around after coming in so high, but I slipped it in and touched down smoothly just a few hundred feet past the numbers. It really was a sweet landing :)
 
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What does your instructor advise? I doubt you will get any better information from the 'experts' here.
 
flytime said:
Keep an eye on your airspeed and keep it on target by adjusting pitch, same as you would do with wings level.
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That only works if you are in a pretty gentle slip. As the slip angle gets higher, the Pitot tube will read low, and the static system may be off as well. In a Cessna 120 with just one static port (by the pilots knee) a hard slip to the left would give you nearly 0 IAS.
 
OP I would say go get some taildragger time and wake your feet up.

All these guys crabbing and kicking at the last second are going to have a rude awakening one of these days ...

Drop the upwind wing and maintain centerline with rudder on short final. If you can't hold centerline in the air, you ain't gonna hold it on the ground....:nonod:
 
KA550 said:
What does your instructor advise? I doubt you will get any better information from the 'experts' here.
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That's an excellent answer.

Even though I have my own FAQ on crosswind landings, it's way to easy to over-think it - to try to mentally go through the steps. And those with a problem with these landings are going to naturally be more prone t overthinking it. A good CFI can fix it much more easily in the air with instruction that targets the specific problem.
 
flytime said:
Keep an eye on your airspeed and keep it on target by adjusting pitch, same as you would do with wings level.
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If you're slipping to lose altitude, your ASI will likely show considerable error. Best to just maintain the same pitch attitude you had before slipping, but make sure you're looking through spot on the windshield that's directly in front of your eyes as you view the horizon (hint: the point on the horizon will shift laterally as you enter a slip).[/QUOTE]

A problem I had early on was that I was afraid to let the airplane touch down on one wheel. I had some silly misconception that this would lead to a loss of control and my instructor never said I should try to make the upwind wheel touch first.
 
gismo said:
If you're slipping to lose altitude, your ASI will likely show considerable error. Best to just maintain the same pitch attitude you had before slipping, but make sure you're looking through spot on the windshield that's directly in front of your eyes as you view the horizon (hint: the point on the horizon will shift laterally as you enter a slip).
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Agree. If I am slipping to lose altitude I don't even look at my ASI.

A problem I had early on was that I was afraid to let the airplane touch down on one wheel. I had some silly misconception that this would lead to a loss of control and my instructor never said I should try to make the upwind wheel touch first.
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You should not "make" the upwind wheel touch first. What if the crosswind disappeared 10 or even 5' above the runway (pretty common)?

When performing a landing slip, the goal is to touch down longitudinally aligned and with no drift. We use whatever combination of aileron (drift) and rudder (alignment) we need to accomplish that. No more. No less. If we do it right, we will land on one main when we need to and not land on one main when we don't. Choosing and making is not necessary.
 
midlifeflyer said:
You should not "make" the upwind wheel touch first. What if the crosswind disappeared 10 or even 5' above the runway (pretty common)?
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Poor choice of words on my part but my point was that if a crosswind does exist when you're touching down you should be planting the upwind wheel first and due to ignorance I was afraid to do that. I only mentioned this in case the OP had a similar fear.

When performing a landing slip, the goal is to touch down longitudinally aligned and with no drift. We use whatever combination of aileron (drift) and rudder (alignment) we need to accomplish that. No more. No less. If we do it right, we will land on one main when we need to and not land on one main when we don't. Choosing and making is not necessary.
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All true although IMO deliberately putting the upwind wheel on the runway first might just be a way to become comfortable with that aspect of crosswind landings. I'd look at that as bracketing the perspective in a crosswind touchdown given the likelihood that a student will probably tend to undercorrect the necessary bank angle at first.
 
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