Cross Country Flights and GPS or VOR Tracking

[eetrojan]

That's an equipment issue, not a GPS systems issue. My Garmin 796 has never burped once in 20 cross country trips.

Btw, consider how inefficient it is flying Victor airways ping/ponging between VORs? Yikes, double you distance and still fear the congestion at those choke points.

IMO, I think you could regard the end-user equipment as part of the GPS system.

 

[CTLSi]

IMO, I think you could regard the end-user equipment as part of the GPS system.

Consider the US military has embedded GPS in everything they do. From guiding missiles, to guiding troops on the ground, to guiding aircraft, Apaches and their entire system of weaponry. Sats are used to create targeting databases, guiding fleets at sea, and their combat jets onto their decks.

Even small arms are getting GPS capability. From drones to robotics to missile defense - all of it GPS based.

One could safely say, if GPS were knocked out, our military capability would be nullified likely to the point of being useless.

 

[Jaybird180]

I think your instructor is taking a wise track, but maybe for a little different reason that people have yet said here:

Using conventional nav aids and using pilotage requires that you develop a good sense of urgency for situational awareness. You will develop the habit of always knowing where you are, especially relative to important things like airports, airspace, tall towers, and cities. If something bad happens, you will not have to fiddle with the GPS or a tablet to figure out where you are. You will also not be clueless about the airport codes that pop up on the NRST screen. You will also not risk bumbling into restricted or controlled airspace or crashing into a tower because you didn't notice the warning flashing on the GPS.

If you train with a GPS, I don't think this kind of sensitivity to situational awareness develops. I often fly with guys who just punch the Direct-To and motor along completely clueless as to where they are and what is around them. All they know is ETE and the destination airport code. IMO this is A Bad Thing.

All the other reasons cited here for starting with conventional nav tools are sound, but I think that developing an urgency for situational awareness during your training is the best one.

This statement does not bear out the practicality of what happens when an aircraft has a GPS installed or Foreflight on board.

I'll bet many won't admit to hopping in the plane with nothing more than those iPad dots and flying that plan.

 

[poadeleted20]

I personally think this is silly. I don't practice reciting the alphabet or multiplication tables either.

I don't practice them either, but I use them routinely enough one way or another to maintain proficiency with them. OTOH, it's my observation that being able to find your way and find the airport with pure pilotage isn't practiced enough by some pilots to maintain that proficiency. And yes, I've seen pilots who can't find an airport visually without a nav system, even with the sectional open in front of them.

 

[Mistake Not...]

All the "the 430 in my rental crapped out" stories might want to consider the -age- of the unit. My log books have my 430 installed in....

2001.

That's a piece of electronics living in a pretty harsh environment, still operating 13 years later.

 

[dukeblue219]

Has anyone ever heard anyone complain, oh gosh, I lost my GPS? No.

I'm as big a fan of GPS as anyone, and I usually navigate primarily with GPS, but come on - really? I've lost GPS signal once on my ipad and multiple times on the built in 430W. People DO lose GPS from time to time.

 

[dukeblue219]

Btw, consider how inefficient it is flying Victor airways ping/ponging between VORs? Yikes, double you distance and still fear the congestion at those choke points.

It would rarely double the distance, and the alternative to GPS is not always ping ponging along airways. Pilotage does work....

 

[LDJones]

It may be old methods, but it sure was great when my ETA over a visual checkpoint was spot on.

My ETAs were always right....it was my ATAs that varied from time to time!

 

[LDJones]

All the "the 430 in my rental crapped out" stories might want to consider the -age- of the unit. My log books have my 430 installed in....

2001.

That's a piece of electronics living in a pretty harsh environment, still operating 13 years later.

My KX170s in my old Mooney were installed in 1974...still working for the current owner last time I checked.

 

[eetrojan]

All the "the 430 in my rental crapped out" stories might want to consider the -age- of the unit.

This particular plane was built in 2009, so the Garmin 430 is not all that old as aviation years go. However, it sees a LOT of students, flying an average of 3 times per day I bet.

 

[Palmpilot]

My view is that when you're out there in the big wide world, it's foolish to assume that you're never going to need a backup means of navigation. The wisest course is to make sure you know how to use all of the available navigation systems.

It's also fun to do. On the rare occasions when I get on an airliner, I always choose a window seat and bring along WAC charts, so that I can practice determining where we are based on what I see out the window. I did this last week when I flew on Delta Airlines from SJC to MSP. I enjoy the feeling of mastery I get when I successfully identify our position that way.

 

[Jaybird180]

I don't practice them either, but I use them routinely enough one way or another to maintain proficiency with them. OTOH, it's my observation that being able to find your way and find the airport with pure pilotage isn't practiced enough by some pilots to maintain that proficiency. And yes, I've seen pilots who can't find an airport visually without a nav system, even with the sectional open in front of them.

Surely these are not perishable skills for someone such as yourself that understands how it works. Sure, the guy who crammed just to get through the PPL written perhaps....nevermind I am sure you get the point.

 

[Jaybird180]

My view is that when you're out there in the big wide world, it's foolish to assume that you're never going to need a backup means of navigation. The wisest course is to make sure you know how to use all of the available navigation systems.

It's also fun to do. On the rare occasions when I get on an airliner, I always choose a window seat and bring along WAC charts, so that I can practice determining where we are based on what I see out the window. I did this last week when I flew on Delta Airlines from SJC to MSP. I enjoy the feeling of mastery I get when I successfully identify our position that way.

For a lot more fun, try doing it without a watch after you've been napping and no idea how long you've been asleep.