Crash in Argyle/Denton

K

KyleT

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Dec 18, 2011
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130
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DFW TX
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1kilotango
Just saw on fb a plane went down near 377 and fm407. Puts it on the approach to KDTO. News is saying a twin cessna. Flight aware shows a 441 arriving a little bit ago. I know we have members close by up there.
 
Prayers for everyone, everywhere, flying tonight...
 
Weather is 1000/3 light rain mist
 
I know Texas is a big state and all, but two crashes in one night really sucks. I'm assuming this is a different one from the Malibu down near Lubbock?
 
Down at 1400 Stonecrest Rd. Argyle. No word on anything else.
 
Man, he was less than 2 miles from 52F

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Y'all have a bunch of low ice or something today? Bad weather?
 
Cessna 441 going into kdto denton.
Right near the FAF for the rnav36
N441TG was a 441 on flight aware.
 
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Henning said:
Y'all have a bunch of low ice or something today? Bad weather?
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It is very wet out right now.
Most airports are IFR but Denton and a couple others are Marginal.

It is misting or more like drizzling out now.
 
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Looks like someone's new to them plane


Registration History

Date Owner Location
16-Jan-2015 KODIE ACQUISITIONS LLC CONCORD MA
24-Oct-2008 441 CORPORATION WICHITA KS
 
What a tragedy! The pilot had been cleared to land on 36. The last transmission was tower letting him know he was still 2 miles from the FAF and too low. It sounds like the pilot's last words were "going back up" so he may have stalled in the climb while trying to correct altitude.
 
RIP

It's scud down here Central TX.

I'll bet just a few thousand feet up, it could be icy.
 
Well that raised more questions than it answered, why was he so slow?
 
The fuselage is in pretty good shape which makes sense at 650 FPM the vertical decent was 7MPH or less and he was going slower than 55 knots according to the last radar reading and it doesn't look like it spun in.
 
DFH65 said:
The fuselage is in pretty good shape which makes sense at 650 FPM the vertical decent was 7MPH or less and he was going slower than 55 knots according to the last radar reading and it doesn't look like it spun in.
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Likely wasn't wearing a shoulder harness or he'd probably survived.:(
 
Henning said:
Likely wasn't wearing a shoulder harness or he'd probably survived.:(
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Agreed on the belts...

Also hard to believe he was in a vertical spiral and pulled it up to hit flat in just a couple of seconds ...:confused::confused:

According to a preliminary review of the camera footage, the airplane entered the camera's field of view at 9:08:48 p.m. and appeared to be in a wings level descent as it continued across the first half of the camera's lateral field of view. At 9:09 p.m., the descent angle increased substantially before the airplane entered a near-vertical spiraling descent. The airplane's navigational lights and strobes were not visible after 9:09:09 p.m.
 
Henning said:
Likely wasn't wearing a shoulder harness or he'd probably survived.:(
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Bill hardly ever wore the shoulder harness. He was a good guy. Very sad for his family.
 
pizzaman said:
Bill hardly ever wore the shoulder harness. He was a good guy. Very sad for his family.
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I assume based on your handle, you worked with him?
I read where he had a chain of Dominos stores Like 100 or something.

Seemed like a really bad deal. I saw pics of him with his kids and wife.
Sad :(

I have heard it speculated that shoulder harnesses would have made the difference in a lot of accidents.

I fly one plane that doesn't have them and I don't feel very comfortable in it.
 
pizzaman said:
Bill hardly ever wore the shoulder harness. He was a good guy. Very sad for his family.
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Welcome, it's kinda sad people make that decision. I'm not particularly happy with planes that don't have shoulder restraint, they make a huge difference in survivability. To not wear one when provided to me is unfathomable.
 
Henning said:
Likely wasn't wearing a shoulder harness or he'd probably survived.:(
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Shoulder harnesses do indeed save lives, but I seriously doubt that it would have mattered in this case.

This is a quote from the prelim:
Investigators reported no wreckage debris path at the accident site. The entire lower fuselage surface was crushed upward, consistent with a vertical impact. The airplane tail section was found partially separated, according to the report.
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The pilot experienced a significant vertical force on impact. I suspect he would have been killed whether he had a shoulder harness or not. Just because the cabin looks intact, doesn't mean it is survivable. UPS at Birmingham is a good example - cockpit very much intact.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Shoulder harnesses do indeed save lives, but I seriously doubt that it would have mattered in this case.

This is a quote from the prelim:


The pilot experienced a significant vertical force on impact. I suspect he would have been killed whether he had a shoulder harness or not. Just because the cabin looks intact, doesn't mean it is survivable. UPS at Birmingham is a good example - cockpit very much intact.
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Agreed .. Just look at the Pilatus in central Fla a few years back.. That plane looked VERY survivable.... yet it killed all on board...... Well,,, Except for the little boy thrown out at 20,000 feet and fell 3 miles away..:sad::sad::sad:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Shoulder harnesses do indeed save lives, but I seriously doubt that it would have mattered in this case.

This is a quote from the prelim:


The pilot experienced a significant vertical force on impact. I suspect he would have been killed whether he had a shoulder harness or not. Just because the cabin looks intact, doesn't mean it is survivable. UPS at Birmingham is a good example - cockpit very much intact.
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True, can we figure the likely G of the impact?
 
I've wondered if Bill's belt was on. Many of the times he brought his Mirage in for work at KHUT it would be completely full of boxes of papers. We called it the airborne office. We talked on the phone just a couple weeks before his crash. It was always good to hear from him. I always had to ask,who's making the pizza?
 
I try to keep it burned in my brain to never lose control or stall should my number be up.

Fly the airplane all the way into the crash. Never stall or lose control authority.

A flat controlled trajectory into trees is better than stalling and dropping in.
 
txflyer said:
I try to keep it burned in my brain to never lose control or stall should my number be up.

Fly the airplane all the way into the crash. Never stall or lose control authority.

A flat controlled trajectory into trees is better than stalling and dropping in.
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Exactly, to maximize your chances of survival, you need to control your tragectory so that your deceleration is stretched over the longest duration possible, and is not vectored at something that I'd going to compromise the crew/pax space.

In order to do that, you have to maintain controlled flight until the plane comes to a stop.
 
Henning said:
Exactly, to maximize your chances of survival, you need to control your tragectory so that your deceleration is stretched over the longest duration possible, and is not vectored at something that I'd going to compromise the crew/pax space.

In order to do that, you have to maintain controlled flight until the plane comes to a stop.
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The gentleman that sold us the Cirrus was getting himself a Meridian.
He said he was having airbags added. He said they are built in to the shoulder straps and if x amount of Gs are exerted, they inflate.

Any studies out there that show their effectiveness?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
The gentleman that sold us the Cirrus was getting himself a Meridian.
He said he was having airbags added. He said they are built in to the shoulder straps and if x amount of Gs are exerted, they inflate.

Any studies out there that show their effectiveness?
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I haven't seen anything solid. The will potentially have an effect in cockpit intrusion/collapse situations, but they don't do anything for the Gs your internal organs undergo. A 50 G acceleration will kill about 50% of the population with between 75 & 100 G being the point of 100% fatality from organ failure, the primary of which IIRC is the aorta tears away from the heart.

50 G is a lot of energy for a light plane to develop, so it is not difficult to stay below that threshold if you stay in control of the aircraft and fly purposefully. The question for people who have never been in a similar situation is, "Will I react in such a fashion that continued control and thought will come to me magnitudinal faster in a period of perfect calm and clarity and just act as needed in a Sullyesque fashion, or will I just disconnect in a nice calm fashion and watch the events unfold like in a movie like the guys up front in AF447?"

I think that is the greatest determinant on whether you live or die in a true emergency, how you are wired to deal with death stress.
 
Henning said:
I haven't seen anything solid. The will potentially have an effect in cockpit intrusion/collapse situations, but they don't do anything for the Gs your internal organs undergo. A 50 G acceleration will kill about 50% of the population with between 75 & 100 G being the point of 100% fatality from organ failure, the primary of which IIRC is the aorta tears away from the heart.

50 G is a lot of energy for a light plane to develop, so it is not difficult to stay below that threshold if you stay in control of the aircraft and fly purposefully. The question for people who have never been in a similar situation is, "Will I react in such a fashion that continued control and thought will come to me magnitudinal faster in a period of perfect calm and clarity and just act as needed in a Sullyesque fashion, or will I just disconnect in a nice calm fashion and watch the events unfold like in a movie like the guys up front in AF447?"

I think that is the greatest determinant on whether you live or die in a true emergency, how you are wired to deal with death stress.
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Ah Yes....

The Princess Di Syndrome....:sad::sad:
 
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