Crash enroute Oshkosh

You guys are funny. You're in a stricken aircraft, getting read for an off-airport landing, also known as a crash. And you're going to worry about which field you're going to land in. Yeah, right. Better make certain you're bright red capes and boots don't get in the way of the flight controls. Probably a good thing you wear your underwear on the outside.
 
well you make the field choice while you still have altitude to make a choice, assuming you have enough altitude to have a choice.
 
denverpilot said:
Tony does that every other flight... stricken aircraft... going down... ;)
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i've only got about 35 off airport landings...and i've always had plenty of time to choose a field that will allow me to land with minimum damage to my aircraft and to the field.
 
its really not that many. a lot of the old guys have hundreds...

i've got 6 this year, last year was 7. i've been flying a lot more since i moved to kansas which has helped up the count.
 
tonycondon said:
well you make the field choice while you still have altitude to make a choice, assuming you have enough altitude to have a choice.
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I doubt I could tell a bean field from a corn field from altitude had I altitude to have a choice. I'm pretty certain I'm going to line up with the one that's facing into the wind.
 
with a little practice you can learn to tell the difference from altitude. they are not the same shade of green and once the corn tassels its obvious, plus the corn dies a lot sooner than the beans and when they are both dead they are different shades of brown too.
 
its hard to tell schools and prisons apart from the air so i don't recommend landing inside either.
 
Mafoo said:
This is going to be a bit off topic, and I hope not taken in bad taste. I ask strictly because I don't know.

I am curious why in this forum there is so much talk of crashes. I am just getting into this world, and so many of what I see here is about the negative side of things.
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Well, let me add to this: We simply can't make and definately can't survive every mistake pilots blundered into. But, we can learn from their negative experiences and most-likely avoid many of the miscalculations of our colleagues. We can also learn from the positive outcomes. For example, there is little we can do about a mechanical failure, however, in this case the pilot seemed to do a marvelous job of bringing the aircraft down without loss of life or serious injury. In telling their tale we can all learn how we might survive a similar encounter.

That being said, I added to this " sharing experience" just today in the Lessons Learned section of this group. I hope it helps someone else.

Kobra
 
tonycondon said:
its hard to tell schools and prisons apart from the air so i don't recommend landing inside either.
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Thousands of adolescents agree, with good reason!

However, I used to fly out of an airport that had a middle school obscured by trees just off the west departure. 20 degrees to the left was a ready mix/asphalt/concrete block plant with half a dozen big steel silos. 20 degrees to the right was a major interstate highway. So far, no one's hit the school, knock wood. Hopefully no one follows the common instruction of, "If the engine fails, just follow the extended centerline."
 
drgwentzel said:
Well, let me add to this: We simply can't make and definately can't survive every mistake pilots blundered into. But, we can learn from their negative experiences and most-likely avoid many of the miscalculations of our colleagues. We can also learn from the positive outcomes.
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Very well said. Thanks for the reminder.

But I do have to wonder out loud what kind of social event in modern times has had anywhere near the fatalities of Oshkosh. It would take lots of Trailways buses crashing to even come close to the carnage associated with Oshkosh.
 
BurtM said:
Very well said. Thanks for the reminder.

But I do have to wonder out loud what kind of social event in modern times has had anywhere near the fatalities of Oshkosh. It would take lots of Trailways buses crashing to even come close to the carnage associated with Oshkosh.
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I think you're overstating the issue. I think the approach to and departure from KOSH is surprisingly safe. Most of these crashes are elsewhere around the country, enroute to AirVenture. If they weren't flying to Wisconsin, would those planes have been tucked away in their hangers for the week, or flying somewhere else?
 
BurtM said:
But I do have to wonder out loud what kind of social event in modern times has had anywhere near the fatalities of Oshkosh.
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Spring break, just about anywhere.

Soccer as well, if you consider going to a game a social event.
 
nddons said:
If they weren't flying to Wisconsin, would those planes have been tucked away in their hangers for the week, or flying somewhere else?
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I am new, so what do I know...

But I have read that fatigue and stress are the leading causes of pilot error. The longer time you are in an aircraft increases these factors.

My guess is most of those planes would have been flying, but there pilots would have spent much less time in them.
 
nddons said:
I think you're overstating the issue. I think the approach to and departure from KOSH is surprisingly safe. Most of these crashes are elsewhere around the country, enroute to AirVenture. If they weren't flying to Wisconsin, would those planes have been tucked away in their hangers for the week, or flying somewhere else?
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Sorry if you think I'm overstating. There are occasional crashes at OSH proper and those are usually due to someone that gets slowed up but wont break from the conga line to keep their speed up, but the vast majority of crashes occur en-route. Every year, people die in IA, NE, KS, MO, IL and so on to get to OSH. But can you discount the people that die on their way to/from OSH and say that doesn't count?

300,000 people saw the Rolling Stones at Altamont in 1969. One fatality has tainted that show for all time, but I'll bet at least 5 to 7 people meet their maker on the way to or from Oshkosh every year.

And, no, I'm not trying to be the poo in the punchbowl, because I remember when that show was in Rockford before it was at Oshkosh...

OSH has become a show like Sturgis without the hot chicks - it costs about the same to hang out there for a week.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
:yeahthat: Sad but true. I last attended three years ago. Not worth the hassel nor the crush of humanity.
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Now that I saw you quoted me, what I said seems a little harsh. Sorry for that. People that want to go to OSH should go! But I used to fly into a lot of "fly-ins" that scared the you-know-what out of me.

In spite of the obligatory CAP kiddies playing flight line marshal I had a bad experience that involved young children running in front of my prop. That was at least 15 years ago and I still won't go to fly-ins. I may sound like a whupped pup, but that's how it is for me.

I still have nightmares about that experience. If I were an honest person I'd report that on my 8710 or whatever the form is that we bare all to the local AME - loss of sleep, night sweats - whatever just ground me.
 
BurtM said:
Sorry if you think I'm overstating. There are occasional crashes at OSH proper and those are usually due to someone that gets slowed up but wont break from the conga line to keep their speed up, but the vast majority of crashes occur en-route. Every year, people die in IA, NE, KS, MO, IL and so on to get to OSH. But can you discount the people that die on their way to/from OSH and say that doesn't count?

300,000 people saw the Rolling Stones at Altamont in 1969. One fatality has tainted that show for all time, but I'll bet at least 5 to 7 people meet their maker on the way to or from Oshkosh every year.

And, no, I'm not trying to be the poo in the punchbowl, because I remember when that show was in Rockford before it was at Oshkosh...

OSH has become a show like Sturgis without the hot chicks - it costs about the same to hang out there for a week.
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That is a poor comparison.......

I bet if they can research the total fatality for that event they would find multiple vehicle deaths going to and returning from the Altamont concert. Stoners will be stoners ya know..:yesnod::nono:
 
BurtM said:
OSH has become a show like Sturgis without the hot chicks - it costs about the same to hang out there for a week.
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My pal and I were commenting on the way back how inexpensive our vacation at Oshkosh was. Even with the airplane's go juice, we spent less than a couple nights at a hotel. Honestly, we spent more money on a weekend at South Bass Island, with no airplane at all.

There are crashes associated with Oshkosh, but usually flight miscontrol stuff that can happen anywhere. Pilot gets distracted on final, gets too slow and you know the rest. No midairs I'm aware of. The arrival control is very, very impressive.

Get a whole bunch of pilots flying one weekend and yeah, you'll have crashes. Just how it is. The day there are no airplane crashes is the day nobody's flying. I'll bet there are a ton more crashes of folks going to and from Sturgis, mostly involving alcohol.
 
steingar said:
My pal and I were commenting on the way back how inexpensive our vacation at Oshkosh was. Even with the airplane's go juice, we spent less than a couple nights at a hotel. Honestly, we spent more money on a weekend at South Bass Island, with no airplane at all.
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Well, that's only because I don't charge for margaritas like they do in Put-in-Bay!:rofl:

And I agree with the point that you and others made about accidents and fatalities en route to events. We know about some of the ones to OSH because they involve planes and therefore make the news. We rarely hear about the ones associated with similar non-aviation events. You also need to look at the relative size. OSH is around a half million people. What is a comparable event? The Super Bowl? Indy 500? I'll guarantee you that there are deaths associated with those too, and most of the. Are never associated in the minds of the public with the event.
 
tonycondon said:
lance was that at hinkley? i heard that they just pre-paid the farmer off the end of the runway there since they landed in the corn at least once a year.
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No, this was out of the Chicago Glider Club field.

I remember landing out in Minn once in a corn field. The farmer said "don't worry about it...the raccoons damage a lot more than that"
 
here is the damage done by our club 2 seater in the maize field on saturday. student did a good job of landing nice and slow and came to a quick stop thanks to all the crop slowing him down. we did no additional damage pushing the glider out of the field.

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Fortunately nobody ever gets hurt traveling to/from Sturgis.

gprellwitz said:
Well, that's only because I don't charge for margaritas like they do in Put-in-Bay!:rofl:

And I agree with the point that you and others made about accidents and fatalities en route to events. We know about some of the ones to OSH because they involve planes and therefore make the news. We rarely hear about the ones associated with similar non-aviation events. You also need to look at the relative size. OSH is around a half million people. What is a comparable event? The Super Bowl? Indy 500? I'll guarantee you that there are deaths associated with those too, and most of the. Are never associated in the minds of the public with the event.
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wabower said:
Fortunately nobody ever gets hurt traveling to/from Sturgis.
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Heh... or so the PR folks say.

Apparently they really do like aviators up there too... airport supposedly has a nice camping setup, and can get rides into town pretty easy -- or so some folks tell me.

If you can find a place to stay, Sturgis can be a fly-in...
 
tonycondon said:
lance was that at hinkley? i heard that they just pre-paid the farmer off the end of the runway there since they landed in the corn at least once a year.
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When I lived in Waterman, IL, I was literally about 2 miles from the departing end of R27. I used to enjoy going up there and watching the gliders, watching the idiots fall from the sky, and every now and then you'd see that beautiful red Waco out. Only time I ever flew in a cub was with Alan Abell - he was the EAA chapter president at the time, and he took me for a ride after one of our pancake breakfasts. Good times.
 
Mafoo said:
I am new, so what do I know...

But I have read that fatigue and stress are the leading causes of pilot error. The longer time you are in an aircraft increases these factors.

My guess is most of those planes would have been flying, but there pilots would have spent much less time in them.
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Fatigue is almost impossible to hit in one day, and half way across the country in a day is not a rare mission in the slightest for GA aircraft, in fact the reason I view 180kts as minimum for a traveling plane is that it allows you most days to fly within any 2 points in the lower 48 in a single day without getting past 18 hrs flying.
 
Henning said:
Fatigue is almost impossible to hit in one day, and half way across the country in a day is not a rare mission in the slightest for GA aircraft, in fact the reason I view 180kts as minimum for a traveling plane is that it allows you most days to fly within any 2 points in the lower 48 in a single day without getting past 18 hrs flying.
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Disagree. We had an 11 hour "duty day" from first engine start at OSH to putting the airplane in the hangar at APA. Some of these older guys in the hobby can't do that, but try it anyway. And they're flying stuff a lot slower than 180 knots.
 
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