Crack in the starter

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JasonM

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I was looking over the engine the other night and noticed a crack in the starter which I guess its made of aluminium. Its about 2/3 inch long and located near where its bolted on. Should this be a big concern?
 
JasonM said:
I was looking over the engine the other night and noticed a crack in the starter which I guess its made of aluminium. Its about 2/3 inch long and located near where its bolted on. Should this be a big concern?
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It won't be until it falls off the mount and takes that big battery cable with it.
 
Tom-D said:
It won't be until it falls off the mount and takes that big battery cable with it.
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Good point. I'm going to take some pictures this afternoon and see just how bad it looks up close. I'll post them later.
 
I think what Tom is saying is that it won't hurt anything until it fails, but when it fails, it will fail ugly, so get it fixed.
 
Ron Levy said:
I think what Tom is saying is that it won't hurt anything until it fails, but when it fails, it will fail ugly, so get it fixed.
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I totally understood what he was saying and thought he made a good point about that. :yes:
 
Image of it. It seems pretty minor. Just off the the right of the bolt.


s1qiqt.jpg
 
Ron Levy said:
Looks like it might be radiating from the bolt hole, and that wouldn't be good.
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Its not coming from the bolt hole, but it is near it as you can see. I've been watching it for the past few hours of flight and haven't seen any change. Guess I'll send her into the shop for an inspection to be safe.
 
JasonM said:
Its not coming from the bolt hole, but it is near it as you can see. I've been watching it for the past few hours of flight and haven't seen any change. Guess I'll send her into the shop for an inspection to be safe.
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Is that the starter or the adapter? What sort of engine? I "thought" my plane had a crack in the adapter, the quote I got was for my IO470 was about $1700 for the parts alone. Finally had a competent guy check it out and it turned out to be a casting mark and bad gasket. That doesn't look like a casting mark though.
 
JasonM said:
Its not coming from the bolt hole, but it is near it as you can see. I've been watching it for the past few hours of flight and haven't seen any change. Guess I'll send her into the shop for an inspection to be safe.
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Good choice.
 
bartmc said:
Is that the starter or the adapter? What sort of engine? I "thought" my plane had a crack in the adapter, the quote I got was for my IO470 was about $1700 for the parts alone. Finally had a competent guy check it out and it turned out to be a casting mark and bad gasket. That doesn't look like a casting mark though.
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I believe its part of the starter where it mounts. Its a Lycoming TIO-540-AK1A. I sure hopes it not $1700 for the starter.
 
You're flying a turbo Skylane or whatever and 1700 bucks bothers you? :)
It's cracked, as in unairworthy.
 
If it's just the starter install a Sky Tec, I priced one for a 182 at just under $600. Mine is a non turbo though.
 
Luvrv8 said:
If it's just the starter install a Sky Tec, I priced one for a 182 at just under $600. Mine is a non turbo though.
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I'll have to check into that. I couldn't see any reason it would matter if it was a turbo or not for a starter, but I could be wrong.
 
If I looked it up correctly I come up with a sky tec 149, looks like under $500. Can't quote the labor.
 
Cracked starters that I have seen don't crack there, but a crack is a crack and that baby needs to be inspected closely.
 
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JasonM said:
Where do they typically crack?
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The area closer to the flywheel. The plane kicks back and breaks the casting near the shaft that carries the spur gear. I've never seen one break on the flange, but I have only seen half a dozen or so.
 
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Is it possible that a this may be something that can be ruled as still airworthy or are the rules written in a manner that a cracked anything is completely not airworthy? The shop I would like to take it to would require me to fly there. Is this something that would/could require a ferry permit or do I need to have a mechanic come onsite?

Found some pdf's with the inner workings. Hard to tell what could be compromised.

https://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/pdf/07-01272-1-manual-2013.pdf

http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/pdf/hartzellstarterbrochure.pdf
 
JasonM said:
Is it possible that a this may be something that can be ruled as still airworthy or are the rules written in a manner that a cracked anything is completely not airworthy? The shop I would like to take it to would require me to fly there. Is this something that would/could require a ferry permit or do I need to have a mechanic come onsite?
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What is the last half of the definition of air worthy?
 
JasonM said:
Is it possible that a this may be something that can be ruled as still airworthy or are the rules written in a manner that a cracked anything is completely not airworthy? The shop I would like to take it to would require me to fly there. Is this something that would/could require a ferry permit or do I need to have a mechanic come onsite?

Found some pdf's with the inner workings. Hard to tell what could be compromised.

https://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/pdf/07-01272-1-manual-2013.pdf

http://www.aircraft-spruce.com/catalog/pdf/hartzellstarterbrochure.pdf
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Yes, short answer. You could remove the starter and take it to a rebuilder or an FBO and see what they say, or just fly it to a mechanic. I think it could be repaired, IHMO. Try and figure out why it cracked.
 
Geico266 said:
Yes, short answer. You could remove the starter and take it to a rebuilder or an FBO and see what they say, or just fly it to a mechanic. I think it could be repaired, IHMO. Try and figure out why it cracked.
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Can I legally take a starter off as a private pilot? What joy airplane ownership is :D
 
JasonM said:
Can I legally take a starter off as a private pilot? What joy airplane ownership is :D
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I'm not the one to ask. :nono: ;)

I would, and not even think about it. :dunno:

Plenty of people here will **** and moan about what's right and blah, blah, blah. It's a freaking starter that comes off in 5 mins and bolts right back up when you are done. Have an A&P look over your shoulder if you need assistance. It's not rocket science.

Use a torque wrench when putting it back on.
 
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That looks like one of those terrible Lamar starters. They have a habit of gear failure, and can cause jamming of the starter and flywheel gears that load up the front of the starter and maybe cause such a crack. It could wreck the flywheel, too. Don't buy another one. Get a Skytec, but be sure to get the one with the right tooth pitch for that engine. There are two pitches.

Dan
 
Sure he can take it off, he just can't put it back on without supervision and a sign off.
 
Geico266 said:
I'm not the one to ask. :nono: ;)

I would, and not even think about it. :dunno:

Plenty of people here will **** and moan about what's right and blah, blah, blah. It's a freaking starter that comes off in 5 mins and bolts right back up when you are done. Have an A&P look over your shoulder if you need assistance. It's not rocket science.

Use a torque wrench when putting it back on.
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Definitely an advantage you have with an experimental. I am assuming the answer is no for me to mess with it. I have worked on a lot of motors over the years so its absolutely nothing that scares me, but the FAA rules are the FAA rules!
 
Dan Thomas said:
That looks like one of those terrible Lamar starters. They have a habit of gear failure, and can cause jamming of the starter and flywheel gears that load up the front of the starter and maybe cause such a crack. It could wreck the flywheel, too. Don't buy another one. Get a Skytec, but be sure to get the one with the right tooth pitch for that engine. There are two pitches.

Dan
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Sounds like a good reason to truck in an A&P. :yikes:
 
JasonM said:
Can I legally take a starter off as a private pilot? What joy airplane ownership is :D
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Yes, you can remove anything, you can even replace it, but an A&P has to return it to service in the log book. Is there a reason this crack can't just be hit with a TIG?
 
JasonM said:
Definitely an advantage you have with an experimental. I am assuming the answer is no for me to mess with it. I have worked on a lot of motors over the years so its absolutely nothing that scares me, but the FAA rules are the FAA rules!
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It could fall under owner maintenance. :dunno: :rolleyes:

Now there will be posts spewing smoke and fire about what constitutes "owner maintenance". You can change a battery, tire, radio, etc. Removing the starter has to be in there somewhere. ;)

Who is gonna know, and who would care? You are taking the starter off to have it repaired or replaced. Rules are meant to be challenged for their validity.
 
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Henning said:
Yes, you can remove anything, you can even replace it, but an A&P has to return it to service in the log book. Is there a reason this crack can't just be hit with a TIG?
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That's kinda what I was wondering as well until I read that post by Dan Thomas saying: "gear failure, and can cause jamming of the starter and flywheel gears that load up the front of the starter and maybe cause such a crack"

Now I'm scared that maybe I am on the edge of risking further damage without a good inspection of it.
 
Henning said:
Yes, you can remove anything, you can even replace it, but an A&P has to return it to service in the log book. Is there a reason this crack can't just be hit with a TIG?
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Exactly. If that is a crack it is in a weird place.

I think it could be welded, right? Can you repair stuff like that on a certified plane? That would be hard to "ignore."
 
JasonM said:
That's kinda what I was wondering as well until I read that post by Dan Thomas saying: "gear failure, and can cause jamming of the starter and flywheel gears that load up the front of the starter and maybe cause such a crack"

Now I'm scared that maybe I am on the edge of risking further damage without a good inspection of it.
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If you don't know what you are looking at or for then it would be best you have someone who does do it. I would not hesitate to fly it to the shop though. My suspicion is a casting defect cracked out.
 
Henning said:
If you don't know what you are looking at or for then it would be best you have someone who does do it. I would not hesitate to fly it to the shop though. My suspicion is a casting defect cracked out.
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In reality, this was so hard to see that I just lucked into finding it by shining a light at the right angle. It took me like 15 pictures to get it to show the crack. It looks more like a scratch if you didn't look real close as seen in the picture. I easily could have never seen this. Recently the airplane has had a pre-buy inspection and an annual, and a few other mechanics have been working on her for other problems and this hadn't come up by the experts.
 
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