Crab landings in X wind question. Speed?

[danhagan]

Tach?

Of course. Everyone knows it's 0.1 hrs from downwind to flair. If it hasn't gone the 0.1 you are coming in too fast

LMAO.

RPM guys ... not Hobbs

My students don't solo until then can land with no ASI. But I also have no idea what tach has to do with it.

Setting 1700 RPM abeam the numbers with the correct site picture (which you're training) works on most of the spam can stuff, 1500 RPM in mine. As long as winds aren't massive, there should be no problem. If you have to fast glance on short final, so be it.

I think he means flying "by the numbers," but that doesn't work so well when landing, unless the wind is calm.

Works just fine on anything less than 15k direct cross wind, in which case you start having to add a little for gust.

Horrible advice for a beginner who hasn't soloed yet!

OP, ask your CFI and work with them. The advice you will get here is worth what you paid for it.

Really? We had a pilot prop strike a few years ago because he lost the ASI ... this would be the BEST time to show them an alternate that might save them some grief.

 

[MAKG1]

Works just fine on anything less than 15k direct cross wind, in which case you start having to add a little for gust.

Even if the crosswind isn't gusty?

How does it work on a 15 knot HEAD wind?

Sorry, this isn't adding up.

 

[RoscoeT]

I'm confused...are you advocating using the tach to control airspeed, as in watching for an increase in RPM associated with an increase in airspeed and vice versa with fixed pitch props? I think I'll pass on teaching that.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

There are some rather odd ideas being posted in this thread.

OP be careful what you take away from this thread. Talk to your CFI.

 

[danhagan]

Even if the crosswind isn't gusty? How does it work on a 15 knot HEAD wind?
Sorry, this isn't adding up.

Sorry, many here learned chasing the ASI, staring it down, flying a standard pattern without adjustment ... throttle jockeying the plane to the runway. The tach (RPM not Hobbs) is used one time only, with no other adjustment ... (think power off 180)

1. Set approach RPM abeam the numbers and set site picture (cowl come to mind?) - don't touch flaps yet
2. Turn base using the side window the same way you'd use the cowl on final approach (is the runway sinking too fast?). You're adjusting track for wind or you could use flaps if you misjudged on the high side.
3. Turn to final based on that "picture" out your side window and finally front. Use power off 180 rules for flap extension (don't extend unless you need them) ...

News ALERT: If you do power off 180's, you're already doing all of this.

I'm confused...are you advocating using the tach to control airspeed, as in watching for an increase in RPM associated with an increase in airspeed and vice versa with fixed pitch props? I think I'll pass on teaching that.

Are you a new pilot? I'm advocating setting and locking in RPM. If you're a CFI, I am shocked. Have you ever performed a power off 180? Have you ever covered the ASI on a student? What guidance do you tell the student to use when you cover their ASI? Are they just "winging it" with no guidance or criteria? Losing an ASI should not be an emergency event or result in pranging an aircraft.

There are some rather odd ideas being posted in this thread. OP be careful what you take away from this thread. Talk to your CFI.

Yes, and ask him what to do when the ASI fails (it will). When you're ready, go with the CFI and :

1. Perform some power off 180's
2. Ask for a light gun simulation at a Class D or C field
3. Fly the pattern with the CFI using doors and trim only (OMG )
4. Your DPE might have you do a 20* bank during your power on stall - practice it with the CFI (Page 55 FAA Airmen Cert Standards 2016)
5. Go out with the CFI on a REAL wind day ... you need to have seen it once before you experience it later yourself. IMC with the CFI would be great also.

 

[RoscoeT]

Are you a new pilot? I'm advocating setting and locking in RPM. If you're a CFI, I am shocked. Have you ever performed a power off 180? Have you ever covered the ASI on a student? What guidance do you tell the student to use when you cover their ASI? Are they just "winging it" with no guidance or criteria? Losing an ASI should not be an emergency event or result in pranging an aircraft.

LOL! So when CFIs cover the ASI what they're really asking you to do is look at the damn tach?? I think your CFI failed to teach you some basics of flying that still exist even when your entire panel goes tits up. What guidance you ask? How about pitch attitude. How about the weight of the controls in your hand. How about the position of the elevator you're holding. How about wind noise variations. I've lost my ASI a few times and I guess now consider myself lucky to have escaped death without using the tach trick.

 

[RyanB]

@danhagan I catch your drift a little bit.

The way I view it is that Pitch+Power=Attitude flying. Fly a specific type of aircraft long enough and you'll gather the sight pictures during the approach to landing phases.

There's more than just a tachometer required if you're ASI decides to go belly up. I've always been taught to keep attention on the feel and sound of the airplane, which I believe to have better indications of airspeed than your tach.

What if you lose your engine and the ASI? No tach will help you there, it all boils down to feel and sound my friend!

 

[RoscoeT]

@danhagan There's more than just a tachometer required if you're ASI decides to go belly up. I've always been taught to keep attention on the feel and sound of the airplane, which I believe to have better indications of airspeed than your tach.

True that. And better not make slight power changes with the tach trick. No "stabilized approaches" allowed. ;-)

 

[LongRoadBob]

There are some rather odd ideas being posted in this thread.

OP be careful what you take away from this thread. Talk to your CFI.

Thanks but I always am, and do.

At least on anything that would be a learned technique, or concept that doesn't make sense with what I have learned so far. My question was answered pretty well by the first few responses. But the rest has been interesting. At this point I am being very careful about what I learn. I have a kind of separate compartment in my mind for things I am unsure of as being interesting, but not confirmed. Also in there are extrapolations I myself have made that I am not sure if correct or not.

At my stage of learning I am learning so much, and have many concepts and then suddenly my mind can go to "but wait a second, if that is so, how does this other fit in?" And suddenly my "understanding" seems in danger of being a house of cards about to fall. Often I have asked about a concept like that here and been helped by someone pointing out something I didn't factor in.

But I always run it by my CFI if unsure.

 

[dmspilot]

There's more than just a tachometer required if you're ASI decides to go belly up. I've always been taught to keep attention on the feel and sound of the airplane, which I believe to have better indications of airspeed than your tach.

What if you lose your engine and the ASI? No tach will help you there, it all boils down to feel and sound my friend!

Pitch + Power = Performance. Whether the engine is running or not does not change the formula.

 

[RyanB]

Pitch + Power = Performance. Whether the engine is running or not does not change the formula.

The attitude is performance, it's just like flying best glide. You're either flying the airspeed precisely or you're further on one end of the chart than the other giving more drag than life or vice versa, which alters performance.

Whether or not the engine is running, that was my point. If you lose your ASI and your engine, the tachometer isn't going to help you. Which is why feel and sound provide better sense of airspeed than using a tach alone.

 

[Abhi Visuvasam]

Student Pilot here with 6.7 hours, so I'm not here to give you advice. I'm just here to validate your line of thinking. I've had the same questions you have.

Lucky or unlucky for me, almost every landing I've done so far, and I'd say I've done about 20, have been in strong crosswind conditions. My last 7 were in 10G20 winds. Every one of them, my IAS was around 65kts. My RPMs were higher in some to counteract the wind, but the IAS was the same.

 

[FlySince9]

All these numbers... Doesn't anybody just do it by "feel" anymore? Do what it takes to maintain a stable track and make sure you're straight before the wheels kiss the ground... not there, go around...

 

[Caramon13]

All these numbers... Doesn't anybody just do it by "feel" anymore? Do what it takes to maintain a stable track and make sure you're straight before the wheels kiss the ground... not there, go around...

I definitely do. Don't get me wrong I also watch my speed, but geeze..there's a point when you need to stop the math and fly the plane.

 

[dmspilot]

The attitude is performance, it's just like flying best glide. You're either flying the airspeed precisely or you're further on one end of the chart than the other giving more drag than life or vice versa, which alters performance.

Whether or not the engine is running, that was my point. If you lose your ASI and your engine, the tachometer isn't going to help you. Which is why feel and sound provide better sense of airspeed than using a tach alone.

Pitch + Power = Performance is also known as Attitude + Power = Performance. If power is zero then Attitude = Performance. Maybe that's what you're saying but the way you wrote it makes it seem like double talk. In both cases attitude is an independent variable and performance is the dependent variable.

 

[RyanB]

Pitch + Power = Performance is also known as Attitude + Power = Performance. If power is zero then Attitude = Performance. Maybe that's what you're saying but the way you wrote it makes it seem like double talk. In both cases attitude is an independent variable and performance is the dependent variable.

Pitch+Power is Peformance, if power is not available than that variable simply turns into energy (management).

No need to analyze it that extreme. Keep it simple.

 

[dmspilot]

Pitch+Power is Peformance, if power is not available than that variable simply turns into energy (management).

No need to analyze it that extreme. Keep it simple.

I'm not making anything extreme. You are trying to reinterpret an old convention.

 

[Abhi Visuvasam]

All these numbers... Doesn't anybody just do it by "feel" anymore? Do what it takes to maintain a stable track and make sure you're straight before the wheels kiss the ground... not there, go around...

Flying by feel seems like a good idea, once you develop the feel. To develop the feel, it helps to have some guidelines as a beginning pilot. So while I fly by the numbers, I am definitely learning the feel of the plane and eventually I will marry the two and fly with feel and numbers.

 

[RyanB]

I'm not making anything extreme. You are trying to reinterpret an old convention.

What am I reinterpreting? What you're saying is just synonymous to my example. Both are correct, just different verbiage.