Coradine LogTen Pro X (I'm sick of giving them money)

ElPaso Pilot said:
Based on past history, at some point I'd be betting that they will hold your data hostage for cash, after they think you're vested.

Too much prior precedence there.
Click to expand...
Dunno. I was only reporting on my experiment which seems quite a bit different than others have posted here. I remember the original program being fairly expensive but it's a niche program. I'm sure they don't have as big a potential set of customers as many other programs.
 
denverpilot said:
Go get the business pricing with option to hard install the software. You'll be shocked.
Click to expand...

I got the $99 version for a five home users including use on iPads and Macs, with a TB of cloud storage for each user. I actually paid less than half that via a family member who works at MS.
 
Last edited:
What a complete pile of horse puckey.

I use LogTen (reluctantly, due to its outrageous price) but I am now going to boycott their completely ridiculous annual subscription on their iOS software. Gotta love how their first e-mail didn't mention the price, and their web site didn't say a price anywhere. Then they send out this other e-mail today clarifying the crazy price.

I'm sorry, this is glorified Microsoft Excel, and $70 a year is nuts!

Who here on POA would like to program a new logbook app and make a bunch of money offering it to people at a reasonable price?
 
Just got an email from Coradine saying the OS X application is free of charge. Only the mobile application will be subscription based. It's a little pricier than I'd like it to be, but I don't think it's horrendously unreasonable. I won't be jumping ship in the near future, at any rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I also received an email from Coradine today explaining that the Mac version of LTP is free and that you only need to buy a subscription for the iOS version of the app.

As a longtime software developer I think this is a reasonable model. The desktop app is an excellent value at the $0.00 price point. Developing and maintaining software for iOS devices is complex and costly. I think they're trying to align their revenue model with that reality. Would have been better if they had done this from the get-go, but sometimes in business you live and learn.

Not a fanboy, but I don't think they deserve the level of vitriol they're getting (you think it's bad here, you should see the "reviews" in the App Store).
 
I don't think their new pricing is bad. The problem is they've shaken us over and over with their pricing..and each time they do it..they do an incredibly poor job. The fact that none of us could figure out what this actually cost when they announced the change is evident of that.

It's also incredibly stupid to screw over your customers that just bought your software. I **JUST** bought it last month then sync broke with iOS 8 and now they tell me too bad? Give them more money?

The right way to do this is:

They should:

Either support and fix problems with the current release for the next year then EOL it...OR give the people that have bought the current release within the last year a couple of the new release. If you buy software it should work for a year. What I bought didn't.

I can't grasp how they think that it's OK to sell software, have it break within the first month, and then tell me that I need to buy their new software.
 
jesse said:
I don't think their new pricing is bad. The problem is they've shaken us over and over with their pricing..and each time they do it..they do an incredibly poor job. The fact that none of us could figure out what this actually cost when they announced the change is evident of that.

It's also incredibly stupid to screw over your customers that just bought your software. I **JUST** bought it last month then sync broke with iOS 8 and now they tell me too bad? Give them more money?

The right way to do this is:

They should:

Either support and fix problems with the current release for the next year then EOL it...OR give the people that have bought the current release within the last year a couple of the new release. If you buy software it should work for a year. What I bought didn't.

I can't grasp how they think that it's OK to sell software, have it break within the first month, and then tell me that I need to buy their new software.
Click to expand...

I agree and very well said.
 
colojo said:
I agree and very well said.
Click to expand...

So far they haven't even replied to my email. I'm not one to jump on legal action but each day they don't respond to me the thought of taking them to a small claims court becomes more and more tempting.

They ripped me off plain and simple and even though it wasn't a massive amount of money it's the principle.
 
jesse said:
So far they haven't even replied to my email. I'm not one to jump on legal action but each day they don't respond to me the thought of taking them to a small claims court becomes more and more tempting.

They ripped me off plain and simple and even though it wasn't a massive amount of money it's the principle.
Click to expand...

I'm sure their inbox runneth over right now.

Don't waste your time in SCC. Not enough $$$ at stake.

My father once told me, "Whenever someone says, 'It's not the money, it's the principle'... it's the money." Your desire to take them to court bears this out. :yes:
 
colojo said:
I'm sure their inbox runneth over right now.

Don't waste your time in SCC. Not enough $$$ at stake.

My father once told me, "Whenever someone says, 'It's not the money, it's the principle'... it's the money." Your desire to take them to court bears this out. :yes:
Click to expand...
I would disagree with that. Most of the time nobody wins and both parties lose money..and in this case that would be true as well. The difference is they might think twice as they set their pricing strategy henceforth.
 
jesse said:
I would disagree with that. Most of the time nobody wins and both parties lose money..and in this case that would be true as well. The difference is they might think twice as they set their pricing strategy henceforth.
Click to expand...

Your peeve is totally understandable, but as someone who has gone to court a few times I strongly recommend that you avoid that swamp. Our legal system is not all it's cracked up to be; the laws are written to benefit lawyers.

I'm sure Coradine is getting much more flak than they anticipated over this issue and as a result they'll be compelled to do some additional damage control in the coming week. Hopefully it will come in the form of giving discounts to recent LTP 6 purchasers like you and me.
 
Last edited:
colojo said:
Your peeve is totally understandable, but as someone who has gone to court a few times I strongly recommend that you avoid that swamp. Our legal system is not all it's cracked up to be; the laws are written to benefit lawyers.

I'm sure Coradine is getting much more flak than they anticipated over this issue and as a result they'll be compelled to do some additional damage control in the coming week. Hopefully it will come in the form of giving discounts to recent LTP 6 purchasers like you and me.
Click to expand...

I've been there as well, and fully grasp what it is, and how much of a waste of time it would be. Sufficiently motivated I can convince myself the principle is worth the cost. It's pretty rare I get to the point to where I'm sufficiently motivated..but Coradine is sure trying.
 
jesse said:
I've been there as well, and fully grasp what it is, and how much of a waste of time it would be. Sufficiently motivated I can convince myself the principle is worth the cost. It's pretty rare I get to the point to where I'm sufficiently motivated..but Coradine is sure trying.
Click to expand...

Funk Coradine. Put some gas in your Fly Baby and go have some fun!
 
I can see how people are upset if they just recently bought the program for iOS and are now told that they also need to buy a subscription. I agree that switching to the new pricing structure without giving people who recently bought the program some compensation is a bad idea. No wonder folks are unhappy.

On the other hand, I bought LTP6 for Mac in 2011 and now the new version LTPX for Mac is free. I hadn't been paying much attention to the iOS versions which is why I was wondering what all the uproar was about.
 
colojo said:
As a longtime software developer I think this is a reasonable model.
Click to expand...

A subscription-based model is not unreasonable to me if it has a great deal of benefits, but a subscription that costs me an arm and a leg more than the product is worth, combined with really shady business practices overall, is unreasonable. A tiered price structure would be a step in the right direction if we can't have one-time charges.

colojo said:
(you think it's bad here, you should see the "reviews" in the App Store).
Click to expand...


Down to 1.5 stars at the moment, with plenty of outrage. Fun to read. I'd chime in but I'd have to download the new version first.

Good to hear some of the other suggestions in this thread for other products to try. I really think someone here just found a new business opportunity, too.
 
Everskyward said:
I can see how people are upset if they just recently bought the program for iOS and are now told that they also need to buy a subscription. I agree that switching to the new pricing structure without giving people who recently bought the program some compensation is a bad idea. No wonder folks are unhappy.



On the other hand, I bought LTP6 for Mac in 2011 and now the new version LTPX for Mac is free. I hadn't been paying much attention to the iOS versions which is why I was wondering what all the uproar was about.
Click to expand...


Doesn't even have to be "recently". If you're one of many who sunk over $300 into his first two failed attempts at a business model, and have to do it again, that's wrong. If he'd simply figure out a way to make long-term customers (without whom, he'd not have a business at all, since his marketing consisted of word of mouth forever...) whole, his new model isn't *awful* by itself.

But with sunk costs of $300+ and a feeling he's more than willing to put out another mandatory "upgrade" in the future, the business relationship is over.

He can screw over someone else next time. That's my stance on it.
 
I will agree that the transition to a subscription model was mishandled and that the subscription is too expensive for the product if you use the iOS version, but at some point they can't make many "new" customers because the pool of pilots is pretty small. If it's a real business rather than a hobby the money coming in needs to be sustainable, which means either paid upgrades or a subscription.
 
Last edited:
Everskyward said:
I will agree that the transition to a subscription model was mishandled and that the subscription is too expensive for the product if you use the iOS version, but at some point they can't make many "new" customers because the pool of pilots is pretty small. If it's a real business rather than a hobby the money coming in needs to be sustainable, which means either paid upgrades or a subscription.
Click to expand...


With all the customers they're losing over this, "sustainable" means they'll have to raise the subscription price even more.
 
Juristo said:
With all the customers they're losing over this, "sustainable" means they'll have to raise the subscription price even more.
Click to expand...
But after reading some of these posts, people didn't like the old model either, where they charged for new versions of the program. I have no idea what their business model is, but there are a limited number of new pilots being created. Once everyone who wanted their program had already bought it, where was the income stream going to come from? They could be like the provider of the old Windows program I was using who never charged anything more, but also never upgraded the program. It still works, by the way, and I could go back to it. I just wanted a Mac program to try. The old Windows program does not offer any tablet app at any price.
 
Everskyward said:
But after reading some of these posts, people didn't like the old model either, where they charged for new versions of the program. I have no idea what their business model is, but there are a limited number of new pilots being created. Once everyone who wanted their program had already bought it, where was the income stream going to come from? They could be like the provider of the old Windows program I was using who never charged anything more, but also never upgraded the program. It still works, by the way, and I could go back to it. I just wanted a Mac program to try. The old Windows program does not offer any tablet app at any price.
Click to expand...

D***ed if you do, d***ed if you don't. There will certainly be more outrage when a company like this goes belly up because of one-time pricing for a very small niche market.

I understand the outrage from those who just paid for LTP 6. Coradine should find a way to appease those customers.
 
Just posted on Coradine's FB page:

Important Notes:
If you purchased LogTen Pro 6 in the last 60 days you can get a full refund which will cover several years of LogTen Pro X for iOS (LTPX for Mac is free).

(Note that since Apple does not disclose any customer information to us, nor provide any method for us to issue refunds, in order to receive a refund on the app, you will need to go through the App Store help. Log in to the App Store, go to Purchase History, and click Report a problem. This is sometimes easier through the iTunes Store - its a bit more straight forward. It is usually a quick process.

Perspective: what is your time worth? LogTen Pro saves the typical pilot 20+ hours in a year of flying compared to doing the same tasks by hand.

Support
We're working as fast as we can to answer everyone's questions, please be patient, there's thousands of you, and only a few of us! We WILL get you an answer, current wait times are around 5 days. Lots of great resources to answer all your questions at help.coradine.com.
Click to expand...
 
Software developers need to make a living and personally I’d rather pay for an app than have ads, but the price of LTP is way out of proportion. I’m wildly guessing here but I imagine ForeFlight has 10x as many people working on their aviation program as Coradine has working on LTP. (I would also argue Foreflight’s usefulness to a GA pilot is also 10x) Charging 1/10th as much as Foreflight, or $7.50 a year seems right. Or go nuts and charge a dollar a month. That I’d pay.

Now, of course, one has the right to charge whatever he wants for a product and see what the market will bear. What those of us who paid for the app already are upset with is the switch.

It’s like Ford saying after you bought a car that they’re now going to only rent cars. Sure you can keep driving your F150 but Ford isn’t going to support it anymore, you can’t get parts for it, etc. ie, when syncing fails, we’re not going to fix that. And to take this conceit one step further, when Ford changed its business model you were midway through a cross country trip, you're already invested by spending days entering your flights into the app.

Even if Coradine refunded my money I'd still be upset because $75 a year (or even half) is too high for a logbook. I spent 3 days entering all my flights into LTP, do any of the other programs allow for an import from LTP?
 
Cogito said:
Even if Coradine refunded my money I'd still be upset because $75 a year (or even half) is too high for a logbook. I spent 3 days entering all my flights into LTP, do any of the other programs allow for an import from LTP?
Click to expand...


I think the real crux of the issue (aside from LTP admittedly being a bit on the overpriced side) is that Coradine is failing to take into account the variety of pilot types who use their application. I'm personally somewhat okay with the new model because I use features of LTP that no GA pilot would ever use. I use it to keep track of duty periods and limitations, I can import my schedule straight into the application from my airline's scheduling system (sched+), and I can generate all sorts of reports that are useful for keeping apps up-to-date and for keeping track of per diem and expenses which can be written off at the end of the year.

If you're a GA pilot who is just interested in keeping track of total time, it's simply not worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
matthammer said:
I think the real crux of the issue (aside from LTP admittedly being a bit on the overpriced side) is that Coradine is failing to take into account the variety of pilot types who use their application. I'm personally somewhat okay with the new model because I use features of LTP that no GA pilot would ever use. I use it to keep track of duty periods and limitations, I can import my schedule straight into the application from my airline's scheduling system (sched+), and I can generate all sorts of reports that are useful for keeping apps up-to-date and for keeping track of per diem and expenses which can be written off at the end of the year.

If you're a GA pilot who is just interested in keeping track of total time, it's simply not worth it.
Click to expand...
If you just want to keep track of time and only need to occasionally come up with various totals you can use the free Mac version.
 
matthammer said:
I think the real crux of the issue (aside from LTP admittedly being a bit on the overpriced side) is that Coradine is failing to take into account the variety of pilot types who use their application. I'm personally somewhat okay with the new model because I use features of LTP that no GA pilot would ever use. I use it to keep track of duty periods and limitations, I can import my schedule straight into the application from my airline's scheduling system (sched+), and I can generate all sorts of reports that are useful for keeping apps up-to-date and for keeping track of per diem and expenses which can be written off at the end of the year.

If you're a GA pilot who is just interested in keeping track of total time, it's simply not worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That makes sense Matt, I guess the app I'm looking for is Log Ten, not Log Ten Pro.
 
matthammer said:
I think the real crux of the issue (aside from LTP admittedly being a bit on the overpriced side) is that Coradine is failing to take into account the variety of pilot types who use their application. I'm personally somewhat okay with the new model because I use features of LTP that no GA pilot would ever use. I use it to keep track of duty periods and limitations, I can import my schedule straight into the application from my airline's scheduling system (sched+), and I can generate all sorts of reports that are useful for keeping apps up-to-date and for keeping track of per diem and expenses which can be written off at the end of the year.

If you're a GA pilot who is just interested in keeping track of total time, it's simply not worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That is EXACTLY what I just wrote to their CEO in response to an email that I received from him. The good news is that my complaints got escalated to him and he sent a reasoned response. We'll see if it does any good.

I've also sent him link to this thread.
 
I use myflightbook. Haven't paid a cent. Works great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To update everyone on where this stands...Coradine has made this right with me. After some good back and forth with their Founder/CEO he's given me a refund for my more recent purchases. He also suggested to me that Jesse apply for a refund through the app store since his was more recent. We have differing thoughts on how he's executing this transition...but I feel as if he cares that how it all went down upset me and wanted to make it right.

I appreciate that he did that as he could have certainly just ignored me.
 
jason said:
He also suggested to me that Jesse apply for a refund through the app store
Click to expand...

I did that the other day. We'll see what Apple has to say...I included the e-mail from Coradine that told me to ask them for the refund.
 
Two snippets from Coradine's long canned response to my complaint about their new scheme:

If you started on the day LogTen Pro 3 launched, and purchased each of the next releases at the upgrade prices on the day they launched, it would have cost you $539.93 over 5 years, Or $107.99/year.

... LogTen Pro X not only offers tons of new features, updates for life, and LogTen Pro on all your iOS devices and Macs for a single price, it’s even cheaper!
Click to expand...

I don't know, pointing out the previous ripoff scheme kind of makes it worse.
 
skyflyer8 said:
Two snippets from Coradine's long canned response to my complaint about their new scheme:



I don't know, pointing out the previous ripoff scheme kind of makes it worse.
Click to expand...

Yeah. When I saw that I pointed out that you would have had to hit every upgrade period and most of us didn't think that we needed to upgrade because the previous version did what we needed it to.
 
Keep playing his games or not, seems the critical question. Nope. Not here. Got enough drama from other stupid stuff.
 
If you're tactic is to simply appease the vocal and persistent unhappy customers, instead of trying to prevent unhappy customers, I'll take my business elsewhere.
 
jesse said:
I did that the other day. We'll see what Apple has to say...I included the e-mail from Coradine that told me to ask them for the refund.
Click to expand...

So far I've heard nothing from Apple. I'm not convinced Apple is going to dish out refunds to tons of people because he can't keep his customers happy. Apple collects 30% of the revenue from an App purchase. I doubt they're going to just hand that revenue back to all of his customers he screwed over.
 
Two weeks have passed since I've requested a refund from Apple per Coradine's recommendation. Pretty frustrated that this is the only option Coradine is providing. It's apparently not an option at all.
 
This announcement appeared on the Sporty's iPad Pilot News pages (link)

UPDATE: After some fairly heated comments, Coradine has changed their pricing structure. Effective November 8, 2014, LogTen Pro X for Mac will be a one-time, $89.99 fee to download. All future updates will be free. LogTen Pro X for iPad and iPhone will require a one-time purchase of $19.99, which includes free lifetime updates. But after 40 hours of time logged, the app will require a $49.99 per year subscription to keep adding flights.
Click to expand...

Still not the best for those of us who purchased the universal app recently (like me). But a bit of improvement.

And Jesse, I feel for ya. Hang in there!
 
There's no way I'd pay $50/yr for LogTen Pro. I paid an expensive one-time fee for the program and expect that to be honored.
 
What the ****. This is even worse for me since I now have to pay $89 plus $20 to get back in business.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top