Coordinate before transitioning busy class-C?

[GreatLakesFlying]

Yesterday, I went up for a shoreline tour here in Chicago, as a victory lap for passing my CR and earning my PPL earlier this week. It was a beautiful day to fly and my plan involved transitions through KPWK's and KMDW's airspaces. After takeoff, I contacted Chicago Approach, requested traffic advisories, and informed the controller that I would like a VFR transition from the "crib" to the west of the Charlie space. (The "crib" is a VFR waypoint on the Chicago TAC).

The approach controller asked me if I had coordinated the transition and I said no. A few minutes later he passed me to the KMDW tower and the controller there was already informed of my intentions. I was instructed to begin my turn to the west, level off at 1800, and overfly midfield.

The controllers were very helpful but the question about coordinating the transition stuck in my head, and this is what I want to ask this forum about:

is there an expectation or rule that we contact a class-C facility prior to flight to let them know that we'd like to transition their surface sector? What's the collective experience of Chicago-based pilots about ad hoc VFR transitions through KMDW's Charlie?

Thanks.

 

[Shawn]

While being on Flight Following is not premisssion to fly into any C or D at will, if it is part of your route it is explicitly ATC’s job to coordinate transitions through that airspace and pilots are not expected to obtain their own autorizations.

While it is not your responsibility to obtain coordination, sounds like he was just asking if that had already happened yet or not

JO 7110.65 ATC STATES:

2-1-16. SURFACE AREAS

• 
  b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter another facility's airspace.
• NOTE-

• The pilot is not expected to obtain his own authorization through each area when in contact with a radar facility.

 

[RyanB]

I’m not in the Chicago area, but that isn’t a normal question for ATC to ask a pilot. It’s their job to coordinate your request with each controlling facility, not your own.

 

[frfly172]

Never been asked that question,the class c controllers usually handle the notifications.

 

[Radar Contact]

I work at the TRACON and have no idea why the controller would have asked you that. There is no need to pre-coordinate with a class C to transition. Either they can do it based on current traffic or they can't. Just file this under random thing a controller said that you probably won't hear again.

Glad you were able to get the shoreline in and transition over MDW. I'm not a fan of the big city but it sure is nice to see it from the plane passing by the shoreline. Congrats on your new PPL!!

 

[benhar77]

How easy is it to get a transition across MDW? I'm planning a birthday flight to Pilot Pete's from KETB, but heading down the lakefront (first time) and then around MDW to Schaumburg. It wouldn't save too much time if I could get a transition, but it would be more scenic!

 

[N1120A]

Class C doesn't technically involve coordination. It should just be a hand off from the TRACON (since MDW and ORD don't have in-tower approach control) to tower, or a deal between TRACON and Tower that approach will handle the overflight. Class C only requires 2 way radio communication and Mode C. The only way you can be denied access is if 1) they don't talk to you or 2) they tell you to stay clear. It isn't like a B, where you need to hear and read back magic words. I'm guessing that MDW likes to handle their own overflights and Chicago Approach expects you to ask for a specific transition at the start, sort of like when you are going missed on a practice approach.

BTW - Congrats!

 

[Radar Contact]

How easy is it to get a transition across MDW? I'm planning a birthday flight to Pilot Pete's from KETB, but heading down the lakefront (first time) and then around MDW to Schaumburg. It wouldn't save too much time if I could get a transition, but it would be more scenic!

It's pretty easy. I'd recommend to come down the shore. Call 120.55 crossing the state line and plan to stay below the Bravo along the lake. Tell the controller you want to go down the shore and then transition the MDW Class C west towards 06C. About abeam ORD they will switch you to 128.2 and they should coordinate with MDW. If the current traffic allows, they will hand you off to MDW tower and then back to approach on 133.5 enroute to 06C. If they (MDW) denies it you can stay below the Bravo north of the Charlie or just go south around the Charlie. My guess is it will be approved at least 80% of the time. Hope it works out for you!

Here is my Pilot Pete's video but I did it the other way around (it's kind of long...landed at 06C around the 24 min mark).

 

[GreatLakesFlying]

How easy is it to get a transition across MDW? I'm planning a birthday flight to Pilot Pete's from KETB, but heading down the lakefront (first time) and then around MDW to Schaumburg. It wouldn't save too much time if I could get a transition, but it would be more scenic!

You are correct that going around MDW doesn't add much time but overflying it is fun if you feel comfortable doing it. I've only done this once and it was very easy and straightforward, except for the question I am describing in the OP.

The crib is a great waypoint to begin your turn towards KMDW. There are several cribs in the lake -- these are actually offshore water pumping stations for the city -- so you need to make sure you are at the correct one. Two of them are charted on the TAC: "east crib" and "crib". You need to fly to the crib. A helpful landmark (marked as "museum" on the TAC) is the Museum of Science and Industry on the shore, directly across the correct crib.

Once you transition the C-space you may try heading to KDPA first and ask the tower there for an overfly or a wide-360 over Fermilab -- I am a physicist so I think this is cool.

If you want to go around MDW, there are two ways to do it. One is to fly south of the Charlie space. The other is to squeeze to the north of it. Flying to the north of MWD will get you to 06C a bit faster but requires extra attention. You need to remain below 1900, avoid hitting the skyscrapers, and track the Eisenhower Expressway (I-290), keeping it to your left.

At Pilot Petes, if you order the regular nachos, go for the half portion if you do not want to redo weight & balance for your return trip. The lobster nachos come in a smaller serving and are very good also.

 

[GreatLakesFlying]

I work at the TRACON and have no idea why the controller would have asked you that. There is no need to pre-coordinate with a class C to transition. Either they can do it based on current traffic or they can't. Just file this under random thing a controller said that you probably won't hear again.

Glad you were able to get the shoreline in and transition over MDW. I'm not a fan of the big city but it sure is nice to see it from the plane passing by the shoreline. Congrats on your new PPL!!

Thanks Kevin. Love the videos, by the way. Hope to meet you two one day at 06C.

 

[benhar77]

It's pretty easy. I'd recommend to come down the shore. Call 120.55 crossing the state line and plan to stay below the Bravo along the lake. Tell the controller you want to go down the shore and then transition the MDW Class C west towards 06C. About abeam ORD they will switch you to 128.2 and they should coordinate with MDW. If the current traffic allows, they will hand you off to MDW tower and then back to approach on 133.5 enroute to 06C. If they (MDW) denies it you can stay below the Bravo north of the Charlie or just go south around the Charlie. My guess is it will be approved at least 80% of the time. Hope it works out for you!

Here is my Pilot Pete's video but I did it the other way around (it's kind of long...landed at 06C around the 24 min mark).

Thanks for the tips and freqs! I’ve been watching your vids since you started, they’re awesome. I was actually “studying” your 06C trip to see how you did it and at what altitudes. Lol. Any chance I’ll get you or Jamie on the air next Wednesday or Thursday? (I have no idea what areas you cover or which day weather-wise will be better)

 

[benhar77]

You are correct that going around MDW doesn't add much time but overflying it is fun if you feel comfortable doing it. I've only done this once and it was very easy and straightforward, except for the question I am describing in the OP.

The crib is a great waypoint to begin your turn towards KMDW. There are several cribs in the lake -- these are actually offshore water pumping stations for the city -- so you need to make sure you are at the correct one. Two of them are charted on the TAC: "east crib" and "crib". You need to fly to the crib. A helpful landmark (marked as "museum" on the TAC) is the Museum of Science and Industry on the shore, directly across the correct crib.

Once you transition the C-space you may try heading to KDPA first and ask the tower there for an overfly or a wide-360 over Fermilab -- I am a physicist so I think this is cool.

If you want to go around MDW, there are two ways to do it. One is to fly south of the Charlie space. The other is to squeeze to the north of it. Flying to the north of MWD will get you to 06C a bit faster but requires extra attention. You need to remain below 1900, avoid hitting the skyscrapers, and track the Eisenhower Expressway (I-290), keeping it to your left.

At Pilot Petes, if you order the regular nachos, go for the half portion if you do not want to redo weight & balance for your return trip. The lobster nachos come in a smaller serving and are very good also.

Appreciate the nachos tip! And congrats on the PPL.

 

[Radar Contact]

Thanks for the tips and freqs! I’ve been watching your vids since you started, they’re awesome. I was actually “studying” your 06C trip to see how you did it and at what altitudes. Lol. Any chance I’ll get you or Jamie on the air next Wednesday or Thursday? (I have no idea what areas you cover or which day weather-wise will be better)

Thank you! I'm pretty sure I'm off on Wed/Thur but Jaime will be there on Thursday afternoon (think 2-10pm). If you hear a chick voice, good chance it's her and say hey. We are checked out full room (ATC term for every position in the building) so at any given time she could be working the ORD/MDW finals, departure or the Satellite traffic (small airports/VFR's). Hope the wx is nice and you can get your flight in.