Considering flying cross county (OH to CA) VFR

Morne

Morne

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Morne
Flying cross county (OH to CA) VFR

I have to be in Malibu, CA in early November for some business. I arranged for my meetings to be on a Friday so that I have a couple of weekend days for the trip back if necessary.

My question is, how feasible is it for a PP (non-instrument rated) to fly from Ohio all the way to California?

Obviously, if the weather looks poor I'll punt and fly on the airlines.

A few factors to consider - I am a new pilot. So far my longest flight has been from Minneapolis to northeast Ohio (about 4.5 hours in my 182). This will be MUCH LONGER, like 14+ hours depending on winds. My bird does not have long range tanks, so I intend to stop every 3.5 hours for fuel/stretch/restroom break.

Is this being too ambitious? Should I get a co-pilot to come with and split the duties? Or perhaps bring an instructor buddy and log a bunch of under the hood time (which would also allow us to fly through IMC)? Something tells me that talking a pal into a weekend in Malibu on my dime won't be that tough.:idea:

I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew. At the same rate, I also like expanding my horizons a bit. A flight to California certainly does that.

Please, nobody argue the dollars of flying my 182 versus the airlines. I'm sure the airlines would be more cost effective - that's not the point. Since it is a business trip, I'll get reimbursed for my flying either way. Might as well let the company pay for my AvGas.:D
 
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To get to California and back flying I would plan two weeks at a minimum. Seriously, you will hit lots of weather delays on a trip of this magnitude this time of year. Depending on your route you may have to fly over high terrain, which involves a set of unique issues. Is it ambitious for a new pilot? Not at all. It is ambitious if you're only giving yourself a couple days to make it back.
 
DUH

go flying

plan well and allow yourself extra time for weather so you're not stressed to make a deadline.
 
A long cross-country VFR, is just like a whole bunch of shorter cross-countries... but over terrain you're not familiar with and maybe with local weather patterns you're not familiar with.

How comfortable do you feel reading weather maps and having a feel for what the weather is going to be like at some far-flung destination from your home?

You can play this game much easier today with the Internet than back when we had to wait for "AM Weather" the next morning on PBS. :) :) :)

The rest of it is stuff you know. Flight planning, tracking your course, getting from one place to another in one piece.

Just treat it as a series of XC's with a new go/no-go decision at each fuel stop, and you'll be fine if you can get a good big picture weather briefing at every stop or bring your own tools to do so.
 
That's a lot shorter than Michigan to Alaska. And a 182 is a lot faster than the Cessna 120 I flew.

So, is it feasible? Sure.

It's just a question of how much time it will take - basically how many days should you allow for sitting on the ground waiting for weather.

(Took us 2 weeks round trip)
 
denverpilot said:
A long cross-country VFR, is just like a whole bunch of shorter cross-countries... but over terrain you're not familiar with and maybe with local weather patterns you're not familiar with.
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Which means alot more opportunities for delays. It is doable, but like Steingar said, two days of flexibility may be a bit ambitious for a trip of that magnitude.

What airport near Malibu do you intend to fly into? If you aren't instrument rated, that alone could delay you 12 or more hours if you have to wait for the marine layer to clear.
 
There is very low probability of the marine layer being an obstacle this time of year. I think if weather should come into play it will be in the Ohio Valley until Nebraska or so.

I would suggest the southern route around the Rockies. I think structural icing will be your most likely adversary. I mean, air temps will be cold so avoid any visible moisture even though it will probably be isolated.

Again, getting out of the midwest will be the key.

SMO Santa Monica and CMA Camarillo are your closest airports. SMO makes better sense.
 
If you are interested in getting an instrument rating, and you bring an instructor that you've already started the basics with... by the end of the trip you will be a very well prepared candidate for the rating. It will also give you somewhat more certainty in the timing. Icing might be IFR's worst enemy.
 
Make it to Nebraska and pick me up. I can go with you and we can work on instrument training on the way there and back. If you're wanting to do trips like this on a regular basis you're going to need an instrument rating.
 
I've done more than half the trip a few times vfr myself. With good planing and decision making its possible, just avoid get-there-itis
 
> If you are interested in getting an instrument rating, and you bring an instructor that
> you've already started the basics with... by the end of the trip you will be a very well
> prepared candidate for the rating.

+1

Field Morey used to offer this training. A buddy did his program and loved it.
 
Richard said:
There is very low probability of the marine layer being an obstacle this time of year. I think if weather should come into play it will be in the Ohio Valley until Nebraska or so.
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I agree that the weather in the midwest will be the most challenging, but we've had a pretty good marine layer here in San Diego just about everyday this week.
 
Wow, Morne- I think you just got an offer that would be hard to refuse! I've flown from Ohio to California a dozen times, some of them in a C-172 and some of them in a Mooney. It's a glorious trip and a 182 would be a comfortable bird to travel in. As others have pointed out, icing is a real consideration this time of year, but thunderstorms aren't so much of a problem. So you stay out of clouds. And make sure, since you're crossing high terrain, you understand what you'll be dealing with weather-wise. Go through AOPA's winter flying and mountain flying on-line courses just to give yourself some good background. Pack a set of warm clothes and sturdy shoes. The air is likely to be clear and smooth, with great visibility. But you must be prepared to sit it out in some seedy no-tell motel if you find yourself on the wrong side of a slow-moving front, but hey, if you have a CFII with you, it's uninterrupted ground school time! Seriously, it's a heck of an adventure, every mile of the way is a learning opportunity, real-world flying unlike the hours you spent in the pattern back home. And the view-- oh, my, the view! Glorious. Just make sure you've taken care of or postponed anything really vital back home, so that if you run into weather problems, you can call in and delay your return. More good news is that winter tailwinds coming eastbound can be spectacular. Oh, I wish I needed to make that trip again- it's a long way, but just fabulous. Do it!
 
Allow plenty of time for the trip out (like five days or more) so there's no pressure, and be prepared to drop back to Plan B halfway there if necessary. OTOH, if the meeting ends late Friday and you have to be back in the office at 0800 Monday morning, just forget the whole thing unless you're willing to abandon the airplane for the airlines halfway home and go back and get the plane later.

That said, if the time is available, ther can be no more exhilerating trip than the one you describe for a new pilot. How do I know? I left Ann Arbor MI for Bozeman MT two hours after the DPE signed my PP ticket, and made it all the way there and back. The biggest difference is I did it in May when the weather is great and you're doing it in mid-late fall when the weather in the Rockies can be very dynamic and very bad, hence my caution about eliminating time pressures.
 
Pilawt said:
There might be better odds weather-wise if you take the lower-elevation southern route via NM and AZ rather than trying to tackle the tall rocks head-on.
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Good point -- Malibu is SoCal, not NorCal. The detour to take the I-10 route is a lot smaller if your destination is SoCal.
 
I saw CA and thought you were flying here. I was going to offer to show you around my neck of CA but you are going to Malibu - nowhere near me.

Blue Skies to you.....

Kimberly
 
IFR, it's easily doable in a day. Done it many times - granted, in a plane faster than a 182, but it won't make more than 4-5 hrs difference.

VFR, it's also easily doable in a day if the weather cooperates. If it doesn't cooperate - and it's likely that at some point it won't - you'll have to plan for 1-2 extra days to wait out the weather. This is especially true as a new pilot since you are better off waiting for the wx to clear than to push it.
 
jesse said:
Make it to Nebraska and pick me up. I can go with you and we can work on instrument training on the way there and back. If you're wanting to do trips like this on a regular basis you're going to need an instrument rating.
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How can you pass up an offer like that!

Seriously, go for it. You will figure it out. Get a portable 02 tank, a finger O2 saturation meter and go for it. 2 weeks? No way. This time of year weather moves quickly. You will do fine. Looking ahead at the weather here in NE dry and flyable for the next 2 weeks. Perfect harvest, football, and flying weather.
 
steingar said:
To get to California and back flying I would plan two weeks at a minimum. Seriously, you will hit lots of weather delays on a trip of this magnitude this time of year. Depending on your route you may have to fly over high terrain, which involves a set of unique issues. Is it ambitious for a new pilot? Not at all. It is ambitious if you're only giving yourself a couple days to make it back.
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I went from Las Vegas NV to Augusta Maine and back in less than 2 weeks. 46 hrs of flying. Most days were two 3 - 3.5 hr legs, only one day had 3 flights.

His goal is far shorter.

This time of year I would stay away from really high terrain. Go SW and pick up I-40 westbound around the south end of the high Rockies. Farther north route, there is a whole lot of nothing between Pueblo CO, Page to LAS.

Night flying in the open desert is not advisable for a novice VFR pilot.

Have FUN!
 
BillTIZ said:
I went from Las Vegas NV to Augusta Maine and back in less than 2 weeks. 46 hrs of flying. Most days were two 3 - 3.5 hr legs, only one day had 3 flights.
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Didn't say it couldn't be done. I wouldn't be surprised if I've flown more VFR than anyone on this board save the Alaskans. The one thing I know is you have to be ready for big delays this time of year. For example, we just had three days of solid IFR weather here, at his starting point. Hence, his trip didn't happen at all if he only gave himself three days. Given two weeks, he can launch and probably make the whole trip out in a day or two, depending on his endurance.

The trip can likely be done in a far shorter time. But if you don't budget that kind of time, you will probably wind up flying through something you shouldn't, or abandoning the aircraft for a tube.
 
jesse said:
Make it to Nebraska and pick me up. I can go with you and we can work on instrument training on the way there and back. If you're wanting to do trips like this on a regular basis you're going to need an instrument rating.
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Jesse, I already have messages into 2 of my pals who are instructors (one local, one I'd pick up about 1.5 hours into the trip). Should they not pan out, I will be in touch. Thank you!

The more I think about it, planning to go IFR with an instructor and using the time as IFR training time makes the best sense. It helps keep the schedule intact and advances my skills. Yes, I do intend to get my instrument rating; a local club holds an instrument ground school in the winter that I will be taking.
 
I agree that IFR is necessary to do the trip on a regular basis, but just be aware that it gets you through low level IMC which you may encounter over the majority of the trip. I won't fly IFR over the mountains due to icing. If you take the suggested Southern route you can avoid most of the nasty terrain, but you still have to get over some low mountains to get in to the LA basin.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I won't fly IFR over the mountains due to icing.
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Not saying it can't be done but this is a valid point. I was in CO last summer (Aug) and the day we planned to head home was solid IFR. The Valley was just socked in and I was left mad I hadn't gotten my IFR already.

Then I check freezing levels and saw I wasn't going anywhere anyway. So having left three days to make the day long ride home we jumped in the rental car and drove all over norther CO for the day. The next morning it was clear enough to pick our way south clearer weather and head east.
 
It's the best way to become an experienced pilot - go. But be sensible and allow for possible weather delays. Plan a southerly route that has plenty of places to stop if you need to and get VFR flight following. Should be great fun.
 
Skylane81E said:
Then I check freezing levels and saw I wasn't going anywhere anyway.
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You've just described why I've been farting around with my Instrument for so many years. We have "severe clear" and "icing" here. Heh.

The number of flyable IMC days here is ridiculously small in anything not equipped for FIKI.
 
Even though it is cool in Ohio, remember that you will have lots of sun going southwestward. Sunscreen and appropriate clothing are a good idea. I hope you make the trip. It sounds like an adventure.
When I bought the mighty Apache, I had to fly it back from Dallas. That was pretty exciting. Fortunately, I had good weather.
 
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Pilawt said:
There might be better odds weather-wise if you take the lower-elevation southern route via NM and AZ rather than trying to tackle the tall rocks head-on.
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I was looking at this - Albuquerque to Prescott to Sedona...something like that?
 
Morne said:
I was looking at this - Albuquerque to Prescott to Sedona...something like that?
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If you go ABQ to PRC and then SEZ.....you are back tracking.

Prescott and Sedona are pretty close to each other, but SEZ is east of PRC.

If you want scenery, stop at Sedona.

If you want a fuel stop with Class D/ATC services, and short drive to town for lots of food options, try Prescott or Flagstaff.

If you just want the most efficient fuel stop in and out, go to Winslow.
 
Buy two sets of sectionals. One for planning, one when you are going to depart. Fly down the Ohio River to STL, divert south around the Bravo, pick up I 40 at Joplin and roughly follow it out. Leave two extra days each way.

B.
 
I bought a 172 in Maine and flew it home to west Texas VFR. Spent 3 days doing it so I wouldn't be in a hurry and could deal with whatever weather happened, but yeah it's entirely feasible.

Figure out your "Plan A" route, then get all your charts including any territory within about 300 miles of your Plan A route. Plan A will probably be scrapped about 2 hours after initial departure as you figure out what actual winds/weather are versus forecast, keep the charts handy for making up several versions of Plan B on the fly. When the only requirement for your destination is a bathroom and a fuel pump and generally located "thataway", your destination is subject to frequent change.
 
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airguy said:
...then get all your charts...
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My iPad2 has downloaded everything I'll need.:D

But the advice about taking 3 days is solid. I'm actually thinking that leaving Tuesday evening would be good - make the first tank's worth of progress and then sleep.
 
Morne said:
My iPad2 has downloaded everything I'll need.:D
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Great, that's a good first step. Now you need a Plan B for when the iPad2 goes dark.

Remember - no good plan survives contact with the enemy. Don't be afraid - just be prepared.
 
airguy said:
Great, that's a good first step. Now you need a Plan B for when the iPad2 goes dark.

Remember - no good plan survives contact with the enemy. Don't be afraid - just be prepared.
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Garmin 195 on the right yoke mount.:D

Yes, I usually even keep current sectionals in my flight bag despite having these 2 digital wonders.
 
This I think what Dr. Bruce suggested, is your best bet. I've flown CA to KS a few times, and once on to IL, VFR everytime, on this route (along the 40 fwy).

I always use Flight Following, and I have a 696 w/XM WX. I have landed short and also have waited an extra day for wx. I am IR, but prefer the flexiblity of VFR. I also fly a Comanche 260B, which cruises at 165 TAS, and I have O2 available and have used it on one trip.

I say do the trip and have fun. Be smart and think ahead. It would be great to knock out your IR at the same time. It will prevent mild wx from cancelling an otherwise easy IFR flight and it will make any actual IFR flights all the more educational/valuable.

Fly safe.


bbchien said:
Buy two sets of sectionals. One for planning, one when you are going to depart. Fly down the Ohio River to STL, divert south around the Bravo, pick up I 40 at Joplin and roughly follow it out. Leave two extra days each way.

B.
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Have fun, just don't be in a hurry. The old adage is, "if in a hurry, drive". I'm jealous. Been flying a decade and I haven't done this. One of these days...
 
Whoa, do you have XM Weather in the cockpit? Don't leave home without it. Buy, beg, borrow, or steal one. 396, 496, etc.
 
Geico266 said:
Whoa, do you have XM Weather in the cockpit? Don't leave home without it. Buy, beg, borrow, or steal one. 396, 496, etc.
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Y'know, after dodging T-storms on the way to the show without it, I say a VFR pilot really doesn't need it. You have the Mark II eyeballs, and Flightwatch for the stuff you can't see over the horizon. Seriously. I had it, but now that I don't, I don't miss it anywhere near as much as I thought I would.
 
I liked my one long XC with it, but really all it allowed me to do was fly *closer* to the thunderstorm line, instead of deviating 200-300 miles around it.

Knowing where the line of cells was 5 minutes ago, its speed and direction, and tossing in a fudge factor -- allowed an "along the line" run that otherwise would have been a 50-100 mile deviation, land, check weather, see where it went and whether any new lines had formed, another 100 miles back...

In the world of flying for recreation, wouldn't have been a down-side, really. More flying for me is a Good Thing(TM).

In the world of getting paid to fly, in-cockpit weather is a must-have.

I'm sitting squarely on the fence about adding XM WX to the iPad via Foreflight right now.
 
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