Computer won't "stay on" and screen colors look hazy

woodstock

woodstock

Final Approach
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Hi

This just started recently. The computer isn't even two years old yet.

I never turn the computer off unless I'm going away for at least overnight.

Two weeks ago when I got home from visiting my parents (not the overnight panic trip) when I turned the computer back on I noticed the colors were just not vivid. The photo screensaver was a little too light and I guess I'd call it hazy. I thought it was just the monitor. After it had time to warm up the colors "settled" and were back to vivid.

This past week when I went away, I turned it off again. Since my return and re-boot, the computer just will not stay on by itself. When I get home at night, or wake up in the middle of night and wander to the office, it's off and the light (found in the on button) is blinking. When I press the button to turn it on again, it turns on BUT it wasn't "off", the stuff that was last on the monitor just slowly reappears. However, the same issue of "not very vivid, kind of hazy" persists for a while. Then it slowly gets back to vivid colors.

Is something wrong or is it going into standby for some reason (and could that reason be something is wrong). There's no cat hair on the front vents.

Thanks for any input.
 
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Take the side of the computer off and blow out everything on the inside with canned air or an aircompressor. Could be an overheating video card - which could be caused by a nice coating of dust.
 
woodstock said:
Flat screen. 24 inch Samsung.
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OK then, my idea is not your problem. I've seen the visual symptoms you describe (but not the turning off symptoms) caused by failing insulation on the high voltage line to the CRT. Moisture gets in, and the screen gets fuzzy. After a while, the heat generated by the monitor dries out the moisture, and the picture slowly returns to normal.

Again, with a flat screen, this isn't your problem.. Good luck with it!

-Skip
 
If I had to guess, it's either a video card, or a motherboard issue. If it's the video card, you can replace it. If it's the motherboard, you're pretty much looking at a new PC.

A bad video card can cause a motherboard to throw an error and not power up...but so can a bad motherboard.
 
Hi

It is powering up, it just won't stay on for more than a few hours.

This only started happening when I turned the computer off. It was fine before that. It was on continuously, but fine.
 
woodstock said:
Hi

It is powering up, it just won't stay on for more than a few hours.

This only started happening when I turned the computer off. It was fine before that. It was on continuously, but fine.
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Time to up grade before you loose it altogeather. Sorry!

I'm looking at a new Dell also.
 
Sounds to me like a video issue...is the screen "artifacting"?

10846d1237154236-9800gtx-artifacting-artifact2cassino.jpg
 
See if you can borrow a known good monitor. Hook it up and find out if the problem is the monitor or something in the computer.

-Skip
 
Hi

No, the screen isn't that bad. Really, it just looked kind of dull/a little too light. I thought it was my eyes at first. After a while the picture became vivid again and it was fine.
 
Is the cooling fan working on it? If not, its definitely overheating and shutting itself down. Easy enough to tell if you hold your hand over the fan grill on the back and you dont feel any air blowing.
 
Pull the mother board (and video board, if it is a separate one).

Carefully inspect the board for loose chips, pieces of solder, like that.

Remove and reseat the RAM.

Then, place the board in your dishwasher, and run it through two cycles; do not use dishwasher soap, as it contains minerals which are generally conductive, and could cause issues.

Be sure you allow plenty of drying time before reinstallation.
 
Open the box and see if there's any schmutz on the chipsets (main board and, if any, the video card), and that the fan(s) are spinning freely. They can be replaced (or sometimes lubricated) if they're not, but it's a slightly delicate procedure, and damage may already have been done.

Visually inspect the mobo for blown caps. Electrolytic caps may bulge, appear a bit convex on the top, or leak. (It's crude, but I doubt you have an ESR meter handy...)

Peer into the power supply with a penlight and see if you can see the capacitors, and see if any of them look blown. Sometimes you can see them, sometimes you can't.

If none of the above yield any joy, you may want to find an old computer tech (as in, one who still remembers something about actual electronics and carries a soldering iron around) and have him/her look at it.

-Rich
 
You might go into 'Control Panel' and take a look at the settings under 'Power Options'. Sometimes something will cause them to slip into a power saving semi-hibernated state like you're describing.
 
Try another monitor first. It may be the power supply for the monitor or something in the monitor. Many of the newer flat-screen TVs have DVI or analog video inputs - you could try that and see.

Otherwise, it sounds like something is heating up on your video card. If it's just video that's affected, then it's most likely the video card.

Moving to a new computer is no fun. I'm in the middle of setting up a new Windows 7 box and moving stuff from my old computer (Also having to set up WinXP as a dual-boot to accomodate some older hardware/software). Two days in, and several more to go. Another 12 hours of copying data/photo files across my 100mb home network (500+ GB of files to copy). I'm hating Microsoft right now.

You want to avoid a new computer if you can.
 
I am going to try the compressed air first and see how it works. Heading out now to get some.

Is the video card easy to replace, and, is it easy enough to get an even better one and pop it in? Not sure if the sizes are uniform. This is for photos not gaming.
 
You may also try gpedit.msc. Launch the application, select Administrative > System > Templates > Ctrl+Alt+Del Options > Remove Lock Computer. Double-click and select Enabled. This turns off locking your computer with the screensaver, which some viruses lock into. It is a last-resort fix because it disables screensaver.
 
woodstock said:
I am going to try the compressed air first and see how it works. Heading out now to get some.

Is the video card easy to replace, and, is it easy enough to get an even better one and pop it in? Not sure if the sizes are uniform. This is for photos not gaming.
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Assuming it's not built in to the motherboard (in which case it cannot be replaced), it's no different from installing any other expansion card.

http://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble9.php

Just make sure to get a card that's compatible with whatever kind of video interface slot your motherboard has.

If you have an onboard video card that has gone bad, you may be able to disable it in BIOS and install an add-in card. (Sometimes merely installing the card will cause the onboard video to be disabled.) However, sometimes a failing onboard video "card" is just an early sign of a chipset that's failing.

-Rich
 
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I bought Dynex compressed gas duster. Anything I need to know before I do this? It looks dangerous.

I think the problems are more than the dust though - although I'll try and see what happens.

It's just weird that this only happened when I finally turned the computer off. It never goes off, and I turned it off to go away for the wkd and when I got back it was doing this. Wonder if something "clicked over" by turning the computer off - or broke loose, etc.
 
woodstock said:
I bought Dynex compressed gas duster. Anything I need to know before I do this? It looks dangerous.

I think the problems are more than the dust though - although I'll try and see what happens.

It's just weird that this only happened when I finally turned the computer off. It never goes off, and I turned it off to go away for the wkd and when I got back it was doing this. Wonder if something "clicked over" by turning the computer off - or broke loose, etc.
Click to expand...

That's not terribly unusual. I had to replace one of my own monitors a couple of days ago because I completely shut it off (for the first time in probably years) and it wouldn't turn on again. The power light came on, but nothing else; nor did the computer recognize that it was connected.

Many electronic problems have to do with heat. Fine cracks in traces -- microscopic, even -- can develop, that only affect operation when the substrate is at a particular temperature, because of thermal expansion.

Once upon a time, electronics and computer techs carried "freeze spray" around to isolate heat-related problems. Nowadays, most computer techs coming out of school have little or no training in actual electronics and wouldn't know how to troubleshoot a board-level problem even if their clients were willing to pay for them to do so. And frankly, the economics of doing so usually don't make sense, anyway, given how cheap components are these days.

As for danger of blowing dust out, wear a dust mask because that dust can be full of pathogens and allergens. Also, it's better to blow these things out while the equipment is turned off and has had time to cool to room temp. Even then, try to avoid directing the spray in such a way that it condenses on the component. In theory, that might cool it too rapidly. I have never heard of it actually happening, however, on a cold component.

Yeah, old-school electronics technicians sometimes ignore those rules and blow out hot equipment because we don't want to take a system offline just to blow schmutz out of it. But doing so safely is one of those things that comes with experience. As a general rule, it's better to have the machine powered down.

-Rich
 
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It's not just the heating - it's the heating and cooling. As you note, that causes cracking and other issues - something that acts up only when cool (or only when hot) is indication of a componant going bad, usually a capacitor.

I recently had one of my monitors go out - it was the power supply. While I did replace it with a wide-screen unit, I also found that a standard 18 v laptop power supply worked just fine with the monitor. I had one lying around, bingo, problem solved (all I did was make a little adaptor for the low voltage coaxial plug - 5 minutes with a soldering iron).
 
wsuffa said:
It's not just the heating - it's the heating and cooling. As you note, that causes cracking and other issues - something that acts up only when cool (or only when hot) is indication of a componant going bad, usually a capacitor.

I recently had one of my monitors go out - it was the power supply. While I did replace it with a wide-screen unit, I also found that a standard 18 v laptop power supply worked just fine with the monitor. I had one lying around, bingo, problem solved (all I did was make a little adaptor for the low voltage coaxial plug - 5 minutes with a soldering iron).
Click to expand...

This one has an internal power supply. I have the monitor sitting under my workbench and eventually will open it up and fix it, as it's probably a simple problem. I just didn't have time to fart around with it when it blew, and Staples is five minutes away and had a very nice 23" Acer on sale for $179.00, so...

Also, I've been meaning to replace the ancient CRT monitor in my guest room with an LCD, anyway, so I figgered I'd just buy a new one, and then fix the old one at my leisure and put it in the guest room.

-Rich
 
Thanks for all the input! I think I'm just going to take it in. It's probably something more than just dust given that the vid quality is off until it warms up sufficiently.
 
woodstock said:
Thanks for all the input! I think I'm just going to take it in. It's probably something more than just dust given that the vid quality is off until it warms up sufficiently.
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I would wager that the problem is your monitor, not anything on the PC. What you are describing sounds like a monitor issue.

That said, if you take it in, prepare for the most expensive repair to occur first, followed by "Huh, I guess it was just your monitor."

Trust me, most computer repair "professionals" aren't that professional. You're better off diagnosing yourself or having a friend do it. Its like taking your car to the dealer for repair.
 
SkyHog said:
I would wager that the problem is your monitor, not anything on the PC. What you are describing sounds like a monitor issue.

That said, if you take it in, prepare for the most expensive repair to occur first, followed by "Huh, I guess it was just your monitor."

Trust me, most computer repair "professionals" aren't that professional. You're better off diagnosing yourself or having a friend do it. Its like taking your car to the dealer for repair.
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Well, I can also ask my IT guy at work if he'd like to make some money on the side, too. Sigh!

Would a monitor cause my computer to shut off frequently?

Thanks for all the advice but I don't know squat about these things. I'll ask my friend Derrick (IT guy) if he could take a look first.
 
woodstock said:
Well, I can also ask my IT guy at work if he'd like to make some money on the side, too. Sigh!

Would a monitor cause my computer to shut off frequently?

Thanks for all the advice but I don't know squat about these things. I'll ask my friend Derrick (IT guy) if he could take a look first.
Click to expand...

Derrick would be your best option, seriously.

But, aside from some weird issue, no, I'd not think that a faulty monitor would cause the computer to shut off randomly. Generally, that is an overheating issue caused by dust, cat hair, or covered vents on the case. You may have 2 separate issues...or, if you do have clogged/covered vents, you may have 1 issue with 2 symptoms.

But avoid the "professional" repairmen. There are exceptions, but really, they're far and few between. They're usually some dude, without any formal knowledge of computers, that is supporting himself out of mommy's basement. Their resume will list "Best Buy Geek Squad" as their crowning achievement.

And their answer will be "You need a new MoBo." Honestly, a new MoBo will probably fix the problem, that doesn't necessarily mean it was the issue to begin with.

Go with Derrick. You know him, and he'll not try to screw ya.
 
Thanks Nick. Already communicated with Derrick and we're set.

I did buy the dusting stuff but frankly it scares me a little. That gas can do serious **** to you. I took the box downstairs (IE near my front door, in anticipation of taking it to be fixed) - how safe is it to spray that outside? Should I get wraparound glasses as well as the dust mask I was going to get anyway?

I think my neighbor has an air compressor - honest to God air compressor. Would that be safe or would that unhinge parts of my computer?
 
woodstock said:
Thanks Nick. Already communicated with Derrick and we're set.

I did buy the dusting stuff but frankly it scares me a little. That gas can do serious **** to you. I took the box downstairs (IE near my front door, in anticipation of taking it to be fixed) - how safe is it to spray that outside? Should I get wraparound glasses as well as the dust mask I was going to get anyway?

I think my neighbor has an air compressor - honest to God air compressor. Would that be safe or would that unhinge parts of my computer?
Click to expand...

The potential problem with an air compressor is that it often carries moisture in the air, so if you use it, be sure to give it a while to allow all parts to dry just in case. I can't speak with any authority or certainty, but most likely, you won't see any damage from the pressure from a compressed air tank.

Just don't put the air nozzle right up to the MoBo or any capacitors :)
 
Thanks Nick!

Not that I have the slightest clue what those things look like, that you mention. Maybe I should just stick a hose on the whole thing and leave it in the sun to dry? LOL
 
woodstock said:
Thanks Nick. Already communicated with Derrick and we're set.

I did buy the dusting stuff but frankly it scares me a little. That gas can do serious **** to you. I took the box downstairs (IE near my front door, in anticipation of taking it to be fixed) - how safe is it to spray that outside? Should I get wraparound glasses as well as the dust mask I was going to get anyway?

I think my neighbor has an air compressor - honest to God air compressor. Would that be safe or would that unhinge parts of my computer?
Click to expand...

Beth,

Don't worry about the compressed gas dusters. I use it on film, in the house, before I scan pictures. As long as you don't spray it into your face and breath it you will be OK.

If your computer is full of dust, you'll want to spray outside or wear a dust mask - you're more likely to react to the dust than you are to the gas. I blow my computers out regularly with compressed gas (6 cans for under $10 at Costco).

Unplug the computer, open the cover, take it outside or down to the basement, and use the can to spray the dust out. You can use a vacuum or a Swiffer to pick up the large dust before you spray - but be gentle with the vacuum. The compressed gas will loosen most of the dust - make sure you get around all the fans as well as the holes in the power supply. There will be a fan on the CPU, possibly one on the case, and one in the power supply. All of them will build up dust. If the computer's shutting down, I'd bet on either the fan on the CPU or the vent holes in the power supply being clogged & causing an overheat. The power supply can also cause color changes if it's not properly regulating the power.

DON'T use water (some folks use that with keyboards.... but don't even attempt it with the computer itself... besides' there's no sun tody). Yeah, I caught your LOL... but I can just see somebody pick this up from a search engine and.... ;)
 
woodstock said:
Well, I can also ask my IT guy at work if he'd like to make some money on the side, too. Sigh!

Would a monitor cause my computer to shut off frequently?

Thanks for all the advice but I don't know squat about these things. I'll ask my friend Derrick (IT guy) if he could take a look first.
Click to expand...

It was the shutting off part that got me thinking that it probably isn't the monitor. Also, LCD monitors usually just quit, as there's not much to warm up on them. I suppose in theory a dying cap or something else not-quite-dead in an LCD monitor could cause symptoms that resolve after the monitor "warms up," but I haven't come across it, and it wouldn't cause the computer itself to shut down. Not in my experience, anyway.

-Rich
 
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SkyHog said:
Derrick would be your best option, seriously.

But, aside from some weird issue, no, I'd not think that a faulty monitor would cause the computer to shut off randomly. Generally, that is an overheating issue caused by dust, cat hair, or covered vents on the case. You may have 2 separate issues...or, if you do have clogged/covered vents, you may have 1 issue with 2 symptoms.

But avoid the "professional" repairmen. There are exceptions, but really, they're far and few between. They're usually some dude, without any formal knowledge of computers, that is supporting himself out of mommy's basement. Their resume will list "Best Buy Geek Squad" as their crowning achievement.

And their answer will be "You need a new MoBo." Honestly, a new MoBo will probably fix the problem, that doesn't necessarily mean it was the issue to begin with.

Go with Derrick. You know him, and he'll not try to screw ya.
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I kinda resent your characterization a little. At least the "few and far between" part. Yeah, there are crooks in this business. But I don't think they're the majority. At least not based on my experience.

Specifically, I don't think most independent professional repairmen are crooks. I think some of them are incompetent when it comes to hardware (especially the younger ones, many of whom know absolutely nothing about electronics and wouldn't know which end of a soldering iron gets hot), and others are jaded by too many schnorrers who don't want to pay for diagnostic time. But in my experience, most of the independent guys and small shops I know in the business are reasonably honest.

That's not to say they won't upsell. So will I when it will benefit the consumer. For example, I'll push hard for someone still running XP on 256 MB of RAM to upgrade to 1 GB or 2 GB because I know they'll see an improvement. So what? The consumer wants a better user experience. If a stick of RAM or two can accomplish that and I'm not raping them on the price, what have I done wrong?

And yeah, I've replaced motherboards that I probably could have fixed if the replacement costs less than the time I would have to charge to fix it. Ditto if I didn't feel comfortable warrantying the repair, or if the mobo model had a history of problems. But I wouldn't swap out a mobo whose only problem was, say, a bad NIC. I'd disable it and install a PCI NIC.

But on the other hand, I might recommend swapping out a mobo with a bad video controller if the video was integrated into the Northbridge. Why? Because I would lack confidence in the chipset's overall integrity. But if the customer insisted, I would install an add-on video card and disable the onboard one. But I would also require them to sign an "against advice" form and would disclaim the warranty.

As for guys working for big companies like Geek Squad, they're under such pressure to upsell useless crap that I feel sorry for them. Most of the good ones get out as soon as they can, or are fired for not upselling useless crap.

In any case, I'm sorry that your experiences with computer techs has been so bad. But I can't agree that honest ones are "few and far between." Yeah, we have our share of crooks and nincompoops, like any other profession. No argument there. But I don't think they're anywhere near the majority.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
In any case, I'm sorry that your experiences with computer techs has been so bad. But I can't agree that honest ones are "few and far between." Yeah, we have our share of crooks and nincompoops, like any other profession. No argument there. But I don't think they're anywhere near the majority.

-Rich
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You forget that I did this for a living myself, through my own business. I also saw first hand what exists, and to what level.

I did, however, mention there being exceptions. I have no doubt that you are one of the exceptions (as was I).

If you don't think the majority of Independent "Professionals" are not sleaze-bags that are out to stick the customer you're either in a very different place that I am, or you're blinded by something.

Computer repairmen are nearly equal to used car salesmen and dealer mechanics.

FWIW - I also would replace a MoBo before diagnosing a problem IF, and only IF I knew it would be cheaper for the customer to just replace the MoBo.
 
SkyHog said:
You forget that I did this for a living myself, through my own business. I also saw first hand what exists, and to what level.

I did, however, mention there being exceptions. I have no doubt that you are one of the exceptions (as was I).

If you don't think the majority of Independent "Professionals" are not sleaze-bags that are out to stick the customer you're either in a very different place that I am, or you're blinded by something.

Computer repairmen are nearly equal to used car salesmen and dealer mechanics.

FWIW - I also would replace a MoBo before diagnosing a problem IF, and only IF I knew it would be cheaper for the customer to just replace the MoBo.
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Maybe it's a matter of association. Ethical people in any profession tend to associate with others who think similarly. Birds of a feather and all that.

I've only known a handful of people in the business that I'd categorize as true sleazebags, and most of them have gone out of business. My own core group of colleagues has always been composed of good, honest, decent people. (Maybe that's why we also tend to always be struggling all the time: because we won't rip people off.)

I also know well-meaning young people who are woefully under-trained in electronics, but who tend to be open to learning. They're also quite good at skills that have become important during their youth, such as malware removal; and I've learned from them, as well. (My formal training was in electronics back in the 1970's, as an extension of my training in Aviation Maintenance, back when we thought that was the future.)

Then again, there's a whole tech subculture that seems based in Flushing, NY that I avoid dealing with altogether. Collectively, they probably haven't installed a single legal installation of Windows or Office in the past decade or two. I run across their work quite often when their former clients' machines fail validation, and the technicians' "companies" have gone out of business. Their clients wind up having to pay me to pay Microsoft what they thought they already paid when they bought their "custom" computers.

So yeah, there's a whole gaggle of crooks out there, but I studiously avoid dealing with them.

So maybe you're right about the crooks, and maybe it's just my choice to ignore their presence.

-Rich
 
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And as far as replacing a mobo that has a bad component, the decision involves some guesswork and fortune-telling. With so much stuff integrated into motherboards these days, it's not always easy to predict when the failure of one integrated component is just the first in what will be a string of failures. Some boards are lemons.

I tend to look at how "integrated" the component actually is, and how prone to failure components of that type in general are, when making a decision. NICs, modems, and audio controllers are failure-prone components in general, and usually when they fail as integrated parts of a mobo, they can be safely disabled and replaced by PCI cards. But a failing integrated video controller (or any problem with a low-level I/O controller) is more likely to represent a faulty chipset that's going to continue to cause instability, and possibly data loss.

What the consumer wants is a trouble-free experience. They don't want to call me back next month after having thought the problem "fixed." They also don't want to spend more than they have to, however. I just try to weigh whether or not the failure is indicative of a deeper problem, and proceed accordingly. Given the luxury of time, I could do more diagnostics. But I do most of my work on-site, and it doesn't take much poking and probing before clients lose their fascination with the squiggly lines and start tapping their wristwatches.

So if I honestly lack confidence in the mobo and am being rushed through my diagnostics, I'll recommend swapping out the mobo. If they just want the component replaced, that's fine. I'll do that instead. But like I said earlier, they'll have to sign off on it being against my advice. I'm not trying to rip them off, but neither am I going to put a warranty on a job if I think the mobo might be flaky.

It's not always black and white, is what I'm saying.

-Rich
 
woodstock said:
Thanks Nick. Already communicated with Derrick and we're set.

I did buy the dusting stuff but frankly it scares me a little. That gas can do serious **** to you. I took the box downstairs (IE near my front door, in anticipation of taking it to be fixed) - how safe is it to spray that outside? Should I get wraparound glasses as well as the dust mask I was going to get anyway?

I think my neighbor has an air compressor - honest to God air compressor. Would that be safe or would that unhinge parts of my computer?
Click to expand...

"Canned air" is non-toxic, but I don't really like it for 2 reasons:
1) It's weak. If you have real gunk buildup (contaminants seen or not seen on the outside of the case, even on intakes, does not tell the whole story, you gotta look inside), it's pretty useless, in my experience.

2) Most air cans produce a very cold stream of air, which often leaves condensation or even frost on things. No biggie if you wait until it's all perfectly dry before booting, but...

Air compressors are OK if there is a dryer (a vessel that collects moisture) in the system, and the tank is drained regularly. They will give you more psi, but dial it down to "below workshop levels" before pointing the nozzle at your computer's innards. Also, let it flow for a few seconds before pointing it at your computer, to allow any moisture in there to come out first.

Also, FWIW,I clean delicate electronics, including computer guts, all the time on the job with a small vacuum cleaner- first blow, to blast junk out of tight spots, then suck to clean it all up. Obviously you want to empty out the bag or whatever and remove the filter and make sure it and the area it covers are pretty clean, before blowing- even with a filter, something might come out. Again, a simple way to check for cleanliness of the air coming out of a vacuum, or to clear out anything in there, is to point it away from the computer and see what comes out. :D

But I've had great success with vacuum cleaners, and swear by it for my computers at home. I clean them out a few times a year, and never had a problem with contamination or static.

As far as what's really wrong with your system goes:
Best way to troubleshoot a monitor is to either connect it to another machine or try a different monitor on your machine. Could save a lot of time grief, and money that way.

I agree about LCDs "getting sick"- they usually drop pixels or burn up their power supplies, then die.

But next I'd check the computer's power supply... clean it out well, and if you can do so confidently (although it's not rocket science, honest), take a voltage reading on one of its sockets. This is particularly important if you have an outboard graphics card that gets its juice directly from the power supply, not the mobo.

After that, suspect the video card. Again, try cleaning it thoroughly- removing it is the best way. Graphics cards can do all sorts of weird things when they are dirty, and dust sometimes gets in around the mobo sockets where the cards plug in. True, dust will usually make things worse as it warms up, but not if the dust is somehow inhibiting its ability to get power.

Next culprit would be the mobo...

Anyway, a little cleaning is easy to do without breaking anything, and costs nothing... I'd try that before going any further. You may be surprised how much crap is in there, even if it looks OK on the outside.
 
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