Commercial standards and instructor ratings

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4RNB

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4RNB
I expect that the target audience for this question is flight instructors and those that have recently gotten commercial license. Others welcome to chime in. As you answer, please explain your perspective or background so I can judge the merits of what you say.

My flying has been intermittent of late with numerous upgrades, the last of which should be completed by the end of February. This month I expect to complete commercial online ground school, then use some test prep to polish up and take the written test. I will likely fly a couple months for fun, then focus on the commercial practical test. I've had little exposure to commercial maneuvers. My plane is TAA.

When I start flying again, I'd like to have intentional focus on those things that I ought improve upon, suspect this list is a good place to start:
hand flying to commercial standards-altitude/airspeed/heading
better stabilized landings to commercial standards.
Feet off brakes for takeoff and landings
Centerline control
accurate landing location
I expect other things will be found going through the ACS

I have a sense that my commercial instruction will need to be self guided, I've had numerous instructors for PPL and IR. I hope this changes for commercial.

So question one for this crew: What should I focus or be mindful of? What helped you or challenged you or your students?

Q2: Is the subject material such that I ought seek complex/HP endorsement first or also to better understand things?

Q3: I came across one guy that in a short period of time got commercial/CFI/ and CFII, perhaps all in the same week. Considering the expected dedication to learning required, this seems like a reasonable thing to undertake. And feedback on this? I need to find the guy on youtube that talked about that. I expect that being prepared to teach the material means I could pass the commercial oral test.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.
 
You can do a lot of self study for the knowledge test and oral. Much of it is the same as the private. The main differences are deeper systems knowledge and understanding commercial privileges and (especially) limitations.

For the flight, you'll definitely need instruction in the commercial maneuvers but the bulk of your practice will be on your own.

To me, aside from the special maneuver's, the commercial is mostly an attitude.

The private certificate is about basic safety when flying alone or with family and friends.​
The instrument rating is about working within a system in which your actions can have an immediate impact on those around you.​
The commercial certificate is about not scaring the passengers.​
 
midlifeflyer said:
The commercial certificate is about not scaring the passengers.
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That was one of the bigger debriefing items from my Commercial-ASEL checkride years ago…I needed to be a lot smoother.

Most pilots would agree that an idle descent at short field approach speed, then yanking back on the stick to get an accelerated stall that places you firmly on your aiming point (the way I did it on my checkride) doesn’t meet the definition of “smooth.” Carrying a little bit of power and/or speed to float down the runway for a few thousand feet for a smooth touchdown on a normal landing isn’t acceptable, either. You need to be able to put the airplane on your desired spot smoothly, whether it’s a short field or normal landing.
 
I understand the need for flying, just trying to adapt best habits and awareness ASAP
 
The commercial standards aren't really higher than private (except for slow flight, short field landing, and bank angle for steep turns), but probably should be. I remember my first commercial lesson, also my first flight in a hershey-bar Piper Arrow, I lost 100 feet every time I made a normal turn. Within tolerance, I got scolded pretty harshly that I needed to fly better than that. (Too bad a certain deceased YouTube wasn't held to such a strict standard.)

I once inherited a CFI candidate who just passed their commercial checkride. Couldn't level off precisely, altitude on downwind was +/- 200, left the constant speed prop at full because he liked to pretend it was fixed pitch. Was worried about a 15 knot crosswind. "I was going to call and cancel but figured we could at least do groundschool." We flew. Don't understand how people pass with skills at that level.
 
I was scolded harshly for letting the button on the flap handle make a clicking sound in an Arrow.
 
I tried to do a Lance checkout with a guy once (commercial, instrument rated) who departed the IAF almost 90 degrees off the outbound course on an approach, and when we were doing VFR patterns was +/- 500 feet, and liked to add drag about the time he decided to make a climb back to pattern altitude, resulting in power settings varying from idle to full throttle in the pattern.
 
@4RNB remember that commercial check ride is a VFR check ride not an IFR check ride. Be comfortable flying looking out the window and be comfortable with VFR Navigation.
 
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dmspilot said:
The commercial standards aren't really higher than private (except for slow flight, short field landing, and bank angle for steep turns), but probably should be. I remember my first commercial lesson, also my first flight in a hershey-bar Piper Arrow, I lost 100 feet every time I made a normal turn. Within tolerance, I got scolded pretty harshly that I needed to fly better than that. (Too bad a certain deceased YouTube wasn't held to such a strict standard.)

I once inherited a CFI candidate who just passed their commercial checkride. Couldn't level off precisely, altitude on downwind was +/- 200, left the constant speed prop at full because he liked to pretend it was fixed pitch. Was worried about a 15 knot crosswind. "I was going to call and cancel but figured we could at least do groundschool." We flew. Don't understand how people pass with skills at that level.
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Easy. You especially see it these day in instrument training.
 
4RNB said:
. . .

I have a sense that my commercial instruction will need to be self guided, I've had numerous instructors for PPL and IR. I hope this changes for commercial.

. . .
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This is one area that a newer CFI can help you. They have likely gone through through the commercial maneuvers recently and repeated them from the right seat for the CFI checkride. Plus - this new CFI also to two oral exams with a DPE and has some insight into areas of emphasis the DPEs are stressing.
As mentioned in this thread - the commercial is all about being smooth in every aspect of the flight. Good luck.
 
Jim_CAK said:
As mentioned in this thread - the commercial is all about being smooth in every aspect of the flight. Good luck.
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Agree, and part of being smooth is being relaxed, which comes from being confident. The DPE will recognize all of those.
 
Even before you take your commercial written, study up some of the commercial maneuvers and fly a couple lessons covering the newer material. Then every time you fly, practice some of those maneuvers, polish and smooth out when preparing for the checkride. Make all your landings from here on out short, soft, or power off 180s. I loved the commercial maneuvers and still do them when I fly for fun. Be sharp on all questions about legal privileges of the commercial certificate. This one is tied with the multi-engine for funnest rating.
 
ateamer said:
DPE: “What privileges does the commercial certificate give you? What can you do with it?”
Me: “People can pay me to fly their planes.”
DPE: “Great! Let’s move on.”
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Not a flight instructor but i like to do things the hard way took commercial single 4 years ago and the multi 2 years ago and I have been thinking maybe seaplane. Read the ACS airman certification standards every DPE i have tested with has gone down this list. No curve balls except one for spot landing. He had me emergency decent at 4k above the field enter the pattern and land on a point two tasks rolled into one. If u can comfortably complete all the applicable tasks to standard you are ready. All the best
 
simple, never settle for good enough. strive for +_ 0 on everything. i have found that as i get more and more complacent in an airplane i naturally tend to get sloppy. even on a taco tuesday run, i force myshelf to shoot for +-0.
 
Not too much more to it, just practice and keep practicing up until your checkride.
 
ateamer said:
DPE: “What privileges does the commercial certificate give you? What can you do with it?”
Me: “People can pay me to fly their planes.”
DPE: “Great! Let’s move on.”
Click to expand...
LOL! I hope there was a little more than that since privileges and limitations is the only significant regulatory difference between private and commercial.
 
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