Commercial Flight Training - Cherokee 140?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Hey guys,

I've got all my solo requirements done for the Commercial and I am ready to get going on my flight training now. Unfortunately, I do NOT have any complex time, so I will need the 10 hours in a complex (or a "technically advanced aircraft" I guess). I was originally hoping to fly with Wright Flight Training, as they had a 182T RG for basically ~165/hr. Unfortunately, I got an email stating he now works for Westwind, which I'll be honest - I'd like to avoid for various reasons.

I'm trying to find some independent instructors at KDVT who I could do the Commercial with, but I haven't found much. I could go with the instructor I did my IR with - my only gripe was that he was chronically late (15-30 minutes late). Other than that he was a decent instructor.

So at this point I am thinking I could get the 10 hours complex with an instructor and then transfer to my Cherokee 140 to do the maneuvers and checkride in. Here is my concern though - my AFM states that lazy eights and chandelles must be done in the Utility category. Even with my backseats removed, I can't get my Cherokee forward enough in the CG range for the Utility category.

I'm just not sure how viable it is to do the training in my Cherokee, especially with this CG issue.
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

I've got all my solo requirements done for the Commercial and I am ready to get going on my flight training now. Unfortunately, I do NOT have any complex time, so I will need the 10 hours in a complex (or a "technically advanced aircraft" I guess). I was originally hoping to fly with Wright Flight Training, as they had a 182T RG for basically ~165/hr. Unfortunately, I got an email stating he now works for Westwind, which I'll be honest - I'd like to avoid for various reasons.

I'm trying to find some independent instructors at KDVT who I could do the Commercial with, but I haven't found much. I could go with the instructor I did my IR with - my only gripe was that he was chronically late (15-30 minutes late). Other than that he was a decent instructor.

So at this point I am thinking I could get the 10 hours complex with an instructor and then transfer to my Cherokee 140 to do the maneuvers and checkride in. Here is my concern though - my AFM states that lazy eights and chandelles must be done in the Utility category. Even with my backseats removed, I can't get my Cherokee forward enough in the CG range for the Utility category.

I'm just not sure how viable it is to do the training in my Cherokee, especially with this CG issue.
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It’s a James move I know, but go get your initial CPL in a complex seaplane (CS prop and flaps) and get your land add on in your plane, waaaay more fun and you’ll learn more

https://www.seaplanepilotsassociation.org/resources/seaplane-schools/
 
Assuming you have met all the requirements of the commercial training except the usual stuff that needs to be covered, I see no reason an average pilot can’t learn the maneuvers and prep for a checkride in the 10 hours of complex time needed. I’d suggest just finding a place with a complex airplane and knock the checkride out in it rather than switch back to the Cherokee.
 
mondtster said:
Assuming you have met all the requirements of the commercial training except the usual stuff that needs to be covered, I see no reason an average pilot can’t learn the maneuvers and prep for a checkride in the 10 hours of complex time needed. I’d suggest just finding a place with a complex airplane and knock the checkride out in it rather than switch back to the Cherokee.
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Yea those were my original thoughts which is why I was going to do it in that 182 RG. Really bummed that option isn’t available anymore. You’d be suprised at how difficult it is to find a complex for rent around here. I do believe my IR instructor has access to a 172RG. Not sure what kind of shape it is in.
 
I am guessing that you haven't done chandelles and lazy eights because if you had you would see that, done the FAA PTS/ACS way, they are not aerobatic maneuvers. We're talking about 30 degree banks and maybe 15° of nose-up pitch at the most. A 45° level turn probably puts more g-load on the airplane. You don't need to be in the utility category. Numerous people have taken commercial checkrides in aircraft that don't even have a utility category, such as the 172RG.
 
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dmspilot said:
I am guessing that you haven't done chandelles and lazy eights because if you had you would see that, done the FAA PTS/ACS way, they are not aerobatic maneuvers. We're talking about 30 degree banks and maybe 15° of nose-up pitch at the most. A 45° level turn probably puts more g-load on the airplane. You don't need to be in the utility category. Numerous people have taken commercial checkrides in aircraft that don't even have a utility category, such as the 172RG.
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Your correct. I’m sorry. This is exactly the feedback I was looking for. That’s good news.
 
Complex time is going the way of the dodo. I'd just get your 10 hours and go back to the cheaper plane for the rest of your training and checkride.
 
Off topic, but how are you liking the Cherokee? Are you glad you bought it vs a 172? Is it IFR?
 
texasclouds said:
Off topic, but how are you liking the Cherokee? Are you glad you bought it vs a 172? Is it IFR?
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I love it...only complaint is lack of performance since it’s only a 140. 172s were wayyy out of our budget. We paid 29K for ours. Yes it is IFR. I got my IR in it.

AE2ED4A8-C893-45A2-9228-6E4B0045F775.jpeg 8CD5B7CD-E91C-4C1F-AE78-655E2B9813CE.jpeg
 
So are there any disadvantages to doing multi engine first?
 
mondtster said:
Assuming you have met all the requirements of the commercial training except the usual stuff that needs to be covered, I see no reason an average pilot can’t learn the maneuvers and prep for a checkride in the 10 hours of complex time needed. I’d suggest just finding a place with a complex airplane and knock the checkride out in it rather than switch back to the Cherokee.
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This.
 
Getting the 140 into utility may not be needed for all the maneuvers. But....only 2 of you, and less fuel, should be possible. Check which of the maneuvers need to be in utility.
 
murphey said:
Getting the 140 into utility may not be needed for all the maneuvers. But....only 2 of you, and less fuel, should be possible. Check which of the maneuvers need to be in utility.
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Trust me I’ve tried and tried. It’s possible with 2 people both my rear seats out and about 12 gallons of fuel lol
 
CC268 said:
Trust me I’ve tried and tried. It’s possible with 2 people both my rear seats out and about 12 gallons of fuel lol
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In my 180, the only way to get the airplane into utility is if I'm not in the airplane, and the pilot weighs less than 125 lbs.

Never thought about the back seats...
 
murphey said:
In my 180, the only way to get the airplane into utility is if I'm not in the airplane, and the pilot weighs less than 125 lbs.

Never thought about the back seats...
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Lol sounds about right. Idk it sounds like being in the Utility category may not be an issue as several others have taken their Commercial in a Cherokee.

Yea we actually had 3 W&Bs made - one with all 4 seats, one with one back seat removed (current configuration) and one with both back seats removed.
 
Rgbeard said:
Pardon me for not googleing this first, but didn’t they do away with the complex requirements? There’s a reason lots of Arrows are for sale.
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They only did away with having to do the check ride in the complex. You still have to have 10 hours of complex time for the rating. But you can do the check ride in a fixed gear plane.
 
BrianNC said:
They only did away with having to do the check ride in the complex. You still have to have 10 hours of complex time for the rating. But you can do the check ride in a fixed gear plane.
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Correct or do the 10 hours in a technically advanced airplane like a G1000 172
 
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