Commander - it's over

Yes yes yes, my prior thoughts are right on. We have no real proof of what happened. Like so many threads on poa , it's all based on very few facts, but on a lot of supposition and BS. He didn't get to be the commander of his squadron by being a total blivet. During his career, He probably flew combat in the right seat and was well liked. As to where he is , neither I nor you know exactly where he is. I doubt if he will charged and probably will wind up as I mentioned previously. He definitely was not a quartermaster type drone. Flying right seat in that aircraft is no walk in the park.
 
35 AoA said:
....... It is a cleaner way to give a bad Sailor that we don't want the boot, than to ruin the rest of their life with an other than honorable discharge. ........
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I am having a hard time grasping the thought process of dumping a "bad sailor".. In the private sector, if you *uck up,, you are shown the door without regard to your future since YOU screwed the pooch....

In the guvmint sector there seems to be a implied protocol on letting the "bad sailor" down easy and not hurt his/her feeling or future... Why is there such a huge difference in dealing with bad employees vs sailors.. Who died and gave them a free pass because they screwed up.:dunno:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Yes yes yes, my prior thoughts are right on. We have no real proof of what happened. Like so many threads on poa , it's all based on very few facts, but on a lot of supposition and BS. He didn't get to be the commander of his squadron by being a total blivet. During his career, He probably flew combat in the right seat and was well liked. As to where he is , neither I nor you know exactly where he is. I doubt if he will charged and probably will wind up as I mentioned previously. He definitely was not a quartermaster type drone. Flying right seat in that aircraft is no walk in the park.
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Once upon a time he had his Chit together, doesn't mean he still does.
I spent from 1974-1981 in that community, I know where the office at the end of the hall is. He's not the first to go there and wait. Some are exonerated but never go back to their commands, others get discharged.
 
N801BH said:
I am having a hard time grasping the thought process of dumping a "bad sailor"
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It is not an easy process, in some cases it requires a lot of time to gather all the facts and make a decision, simply because by the time a officer makes full commander (0-5) the Navy has a huge amount of time and training money investigated in that officer they hate to loose them to a few bad decisions.
 
N801BH said:
In the guvmint sector there seems to be a implied protocol on letting the "bad sailor" down easy and not hurt his/her feeling or future... Why is there such a huge difference in dealing with bad employees vs sailors.. Who died and gave them a free pass because they screwed up.:dunno:
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I don't know where you get the idea they get a free pass. We have the UCMJ, and a code of conduct and the military will abide by it.
 
N801BH said:
I am having a hard time grasping the thought process of dumping a "bad sailor".. In the private sector, if you *uck up,, you are shown the door without regard to your future since YOU screwed the pooch....

In the guvmint sector there seems to be a implied protocol on letting the "bad sailor" down easy and not hurt his/her feeling or future... Why is there such a huge difference in dealing with bad employees vs sailors.. Who died and gave them a free pass because they screwed up.:dunno:
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There is a difference between a bad sailor that is bad because they are useless/unmotivated/cause consistent problems and one who has actually committed a major crime/violation of UCMJ, or screwed something up professionally that was major. We will soft kill the first category because it just isn't worth anyone's time to take the thing to a CM, try and develop a case, etc. You take them to mast, no judge, no jury, and without much trouble you can have a person out of the Navy pretty quickly. Remember that on the command level, we don't own the sailor....the Navy and the Bureau of Personnel does...so that is where the red tape comes into play. We can kick them out of the command tomorrow, no questions asked, but that doesn't mean they leave the Navy, unless we do the right things in the right order prior to showing them our door.

As an aside, I've never seen anyone's feelings be spared in any NJP or formal counseling/board event. Don't worry....the Navy still has a lot of angry crusty old senior Chiefs to make life exceedingly painful for those who screw the pooch.
 
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35 AoA said:
There is a difference between a bad sailor that is bad because they are useless/unmotivated/cause consistent problems and one who has actually committed a major crime/violation of UCMJ, or screwed something up professionally that was major. We will soft kill the first category because it just isn't worth anyone's time to take the thing to a CM, try and develop a case, etc. You take them to mast, no judge, no jury, and without much trouble you can have a person out of the Navy pretty quickly. Remember that on the command level, we don't own the sailor....the Navy and the Bureau of Personnel does...so that is where the red tape comes into play. We can kick them out of the command tomorrow, no questions asked, but that doesn't mean they leave the Navy, unless we do the right things in the right order prior to showing them our door.

As an aside, I've never seen anyone's feelings be spared in any NJP or formal counseling/board event. Don't worry....the Navy still has a lot of angry crusty old senior Chiefs to make life exceedingly painful for those who screw the pooch.
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Your point may be true for a enlisted sailor, but a senior officer, not so much. the navy won't throw this guy away with out just cause.
 
Tom-D said:
Your point may be true for a enlisted sailor, but a senior officer, not so much. the navy won't throw this guy away with out just cause.
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Yeah, that was exactly my point.......this was in reference to your mention of "reduction in rank" in the original post wrt to the CDR in question, which got us onto the thread jack of admin seps and other such NJP, and why they wouldn't apply in this case. Sounds like we are in agreement though
 
Noah Werka said:
Agenda politics guys...destruction of the US Military. Just look at how many high ranking men and women of all ranks and services have been sacked since oh eight.

Noah W
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Total BS.

I have served under the last 3 Presidents. I am no fan of the current administration, but can say this has nothing to do with who POTUS is. If the charges are correct, this guy would have been sacked under W just as quickly. That sort of behaviour may have been looked over during the 80s, but alot has changed since then.

It isn't a matter of who the President is. The fact is that what is acceptable to society in general has changed.
 
Tom-D said:
Once upon a time he had his Chit together, doesn't mean he still does.
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Part of the problem that we are having these days with all of the CO/XO firings due to personal conduct is that these guys (and sometimes gals) didn't just become turds overnight. They often exhibited these behaviors early in their careers but they performed well enough professionally that no one caught it or their folks chose to overlook the early signs. So, consequently, when the record goes into the tank, the selection board only sees an officer that on paper walks on water.

And the further they get, the more invincible they feel....until it blows up in their face.
 
Yellowbird said:
I'd be interested in seeing what he actually did, rather than jsut how the charges were classified. What instructions were ignored and how were they ignored? What racial remarks did he make? What innacurate information was submitted on fitness reports?
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+1 for the entertainment value if nothing else.
 
From the insider info I got today, this 05 may be the victim, of an disgruntled 04, who got a bad fitness report.
And in todays NAVY of zero tolerance found them selves under the microscope.
 
Tom-D said:
From the insider info I got today, this 05 may be the victim, of an disgruntled 04, who got a bad fitness report.
And in todays NAVY of zero tolerance found them selves under the microscope.
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Pretty much what I expected to hear from this

The racism charge seems pretty rich, as this guy himself, is obviously not white. Not that I haven't experienced reverse racism while living in the dirty south, but I'd imagine a guy with an education, a career on the line, and many years in the great and fantastic melting pot that is our Navy, would probably not be ignorant enough to be "that guy" (or gal). Just sayin. I personally don't believe it.
 
35 AoA said:
Pretty much what I expected to hear from this

The racism charge seems pretty rich, as this guy himself, is obviously not white. Not that I haven't experienced reverse racism while living in the dirty south, but I'd imagine a guy with an education, a career on the line, and many years in the great and fantastic melting pot that is our Navy, would probably not be ignorant enough to be "that guy" (or gal). Just sayin. I personally don't believe it.
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either way this 05 was relieved of command, his career is over.
 
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