Colorado fire

gkainz

Final Approach
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Greg Kainz
A fire started Sunday near Golden, CO - winds have been stupid strong here for the last couple of days. They're talking gusts up to 75MPH this afternoon.

http://jeffcosheriff1.blogspot.com/ update from 6:45am today:
Indian Gulch Fire Update
Fire updates:
Nearly 1,200 acres have burned
The fire is 15% contained
Fire officials expect two single-engine air tankers and two helicopters to be available to fight the fire this morning.
High winds are expected today, with gusts as high as 75 MPH
200 firefighters will be working the fire today, with hand crews arriving from out of state
A Type 1 incident management team will arrive this evening to take over fire management
 
9News reported yesterday that one of the Single Engine Air Tankers was grounded due to "communication problems". As a rated CAP Communications Unit Leader and ICS trained for same, it really has my curiosity up. What piece of trash comm gear screwed the "mission"?! I'm finding it hard to swallow that a workaround couldn't be found unless the ATC radio in the thing crapped out and it had to go to the avionics shop. For the Fire frequencies, a headset adapter and handheld would cut it. Lots of options for the FM or P25 radios too.

My guess, the "communications failure" was that someone didn't return an on-call page/notification. ;)
 
9News reported yesterday that one of the Single Engine Air Tankers was grounded due to "communication problems". As a rated CAP Communications Unit Leader and ICS trained for same, it really has my curiosity up. What piece of trash comm gear screwed the "mission"?! I'm finding it hard to swallow that a workaround couldn't be found unless the ATC radio in the thing crapped out and it had to go to the avionics shop. For the Fire frequencies, a headset adapter and handheld would cut it. Lots of options for the FM or P25 radios too.

My guess, the "communications failure" was that someone didn't return an on-call page/notification. ;)

He has to be able to talk to the Air Attack plane. My guess is he lost his AM radio or the ability to use it, audio panel etc. Those planes don't have an excess of avionics. At least the ones I've poked my head in. One is based at FNL. I know the guys that run the base. If I hear what happened, I'll post. He wouldn't need FM as Air Attack would be talking to ground.
 
With winds gusting to 75+, would they even be flying today? It's been very windy/gusty all day long....
 
With winds gusting to 75+, would they even be flying today? It's been very windy/gusty all day long....

No, I seem to remember the limit was somewhere around 30 knots depending on turbulence, gusts and direction. They like to try though. One of the FS P-Baron leadplanes bent a spar in turbulence around Glenwood a few years back.
 
The fire is 15% contained
I always laugh when I hear this. IMO a fire is either contained or it's not and until it's 100% contained it's 0% contained.

It's kinda like being 15% pregnant.
 
The "grounding" was yesterday. And if you're saying they'd not have a handheld and headset adapter around in case of loss of a single on-board Comm radio, hmmm. Sounds not "Boy Scoutish" enough for me. ;)

I thought the SEAT guys did their own spotting and only the "heavies" needed a scout aircraft/spotter?

They did say a couple of helos launched. Maybe the SEAT couldn't coordinate with the helos properly due to a busted Comm radio.

Lots of possibilities there, including that the oh-so-vigilant news media just got the story flat-wrong. It just piqued my interest.

I noticed that Channel 7 cornered a West Metro crew (Lieutenant, Engineer, and Firefighter) during their supposed "rest time" this morning and kept them doing interviews for hours early this morning and wondered, "Where the hell is the PIO?!" too. Those guys should have been getting some rest.

They reported that a Federal Type I team was enroute to take over today sometime. I doubt the media will get their hooks into anyone below the rank of Captain tonight for their air time, and it'll be with the PIO's approval. ;)
 
The "grounding" was yesterday. And if you're saying they'd not have a handheld and headset adapter around in case of loss of a single on-board Comm radio, hmmm. Sounds not "Boy Scoutish" enough for me. ;)

Some of the pilots might have a handheld in case of in flight failure. Can't say I ever discussed with them. I do remember that many of the pilots are long time ag pilots who don't do well with radios. Getting them to manage freqs on the FM sets was a challenge. Tone controls and such were outside their experience. I remember programming their panel radios and trying explain the freq plan. Usually just set it for the current fire and let'em go. But if the comm was out on the ground no way could they launch with a handheld. At least that's the way Federal contracts were. These are state but I assume they were similar since the Feds will use them.

I thought the SEAT guys did their own spotting and only the "heavies" needed a scout aircraft/spotter?

They are for initial attack but on a going fire with multiple aircraft there will be an airborne controller - the Air Attack. Keeps folks out of each others way and coordinates with ground on priorities. They'll pull the helios out of the was when the tankers are in bound. I think all SEATs are initial attack qualified, some heavys are some aren't. Lead planes may act as Air Attack until a dedicated plane arrives.

They did say a couple of helos launched. Maybe the SEAT couldn't coordinate with the helos properly due to a busted Comm radio.

Lots of possibilities there, including that the oh-so-vigilant news media just got the story flat-wrong. It just piqued my interest.

I'll bet there was an air attack in the middle. Helos and SEATs wouldn't coordinate with each other (and ground). Too much to do when they need to fly low in the windy mtns.

I've seen lots of stuff ground tankers or delay a runs.

I noticed that Channel 7 cornered a West Metro crew (Lieutenant, Engineer, and Firefighter) during their supposed "rest time" this morning and kept them doing interviews for hours early this morning and wondered, "Where the hell is the PIO?!" too. Those guys should have been getting some rest.

They reported that a Federal Type I team was enroute to take over today sometime. I doubt the media will get their hooks into anyone below the rank of Captain tonight for their air time, and it'll be with the PIO's approval. ;)

You're right there. The structure guys have come a long way in the last 20 years but still aren't wildland fire experts.


SEATs are amazing planes. Almost 800 gallons but they are effective in initial attack and grass fuel type. Plus they don't move quickly between fires. One reason they're scattered all over the west.

Edit: Just saw a picture of the FS base at Metro. There is a P2V and a Aerocommander (the air attack platform) on the ramp. Grounded due to winds.
 
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