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Less than Physics or Engineering. More than Biology.
College degrees and flying
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Less than Physics or Engineering. More than Biology.
OkieAviator
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OkieAviator
In the US trade schools are vocational educations that revolve around some skill set, mechanics, wielding, culinary arts, medical record clerk ect. These types of education are very focused skill-sets and prepare you for an entry position into whatever industry it lines up with.
Post graduate schools such as a Juris Doctorate (Law), Medicine, Engineering, Architecture and Business fall under professional degrees. Wikipedia that if you want to know the nuances between the categorization of these things, but it's very specific.
The reality is unless it's a predecessor for one of these professional degrees it doesn't matter what you get your undergraduate in. The school you go to is more important than the degree you get and sometimes they don't even care about that. In my industry I'm able to use a 1-1 conversion ratio on experience for education, so if the job requires a bachelors but they have 4 more years experience than the required amount (The are based on contractual agreements) then I'm able to bring them on.
airdale
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airdale
You totally miss my point. Let me try again. There are two classes of bachelor/undergraduate degrees:
(1) "Trade school" degrees where the person graduates already equipped to do useful work. Engineering, teaching, criminal justice with cop qualfication, etc. There are lots of them.
(2) "Other"degrees where the graduate is basically a piece of raw meat ready to be baked into something useful by a corporate training program, by life experiences, or in graduate school. (What does a French Literature student say after graduation? ... "Would you like fries with that?") There are lots of these, too, like psychology, business, marketing, gender studies, literature, art, etc.
We may have to agree to disagree on this. It matters quite a bit in terms of opportunity and pay whether you get a degree in engineering or a degree in art history, for example. The point I was trying to make to the OP is that he should look for "trade school" degrees in fields that are of interest to him and avoid "other" degrees that do not directly equip him with marketable skills.
That's pretty weird; the kind of nutty thing that only unions and government would do IMO. Am I guessing right?
OkieAviator
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OkieAviator
I understood what you were saying, I just disagree based on definition and your concept of degree's falling under your two buckets. Calling a professional or focused degree as a 'trade' and everything else as 'other' is bizarre.
Yes if you have an Engineering degree from an accredited university and are working in a position that requires that professional degree then there is no way that someone with a degree in art history would be able to do that job. Same with an Attorney, Physician, ect.. And yes if you're going to go ahead and spend 4 years graduate school you should pick an area of study that relates directly to a post graduation job.
However once you're about 4-5 years into an industry or a particular job then the undergraduate degree you have really becomes a non-factor. This is especially true in IT where you have a mix of people, degree types all making different amounts based on experience or particular value. At one time before he left for another job I had a guy with 12 years focused IT experience and a high school degree making around $140K/year. No clue what he's making now but is still one of the brightest technical guys I know.
So Yes and No... the 1-1 ratio is the typical conversion rate on DoD contracts I manage. It will however vary based on location and customer... for example to meet TESA quals in Germany it can be vastly different like 4-1 ratio... or no conversion at all.
Internal company positions are different, I would have to check but I believe it's 7 years in lieu of a bachelors, 10 in lieu of a Master and 15 for a PhD. And then in reverse you can use the degrees to lower the experience years. When I was promoted to a Senior Project Manager in my early 30s they had to do that for me and count my MBA as years experience because the requirement was I think 12-15 years and I didn't have that, had 10 years I guess.
airdale
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airdale
I have an MSEE and the coursework and prelim exams for a PhD in Computer Science; I often refer to this as my trade school training. Call it something else if you like.
The fact is that separating bachelor's degrees into two categories is IMO a useful way to think about them, particularly when the OP is asking for advice on what degree would be the best backup in case he becomes not-a-pilot.
That is frequently the case; I agree. But the OP is not asking about what matters 4-5 years into a job; he is asking what degrees are best in order to get a job. And not, presumably, a job at Starbucks.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Actually I think the OP is looking for suggestions for a backup degree in case things don't work out as a pilot. If someone changes their mind more than about 10 years down the road, I think one degree is as good as the next. They might have the degree but no relevant experience.
As far as predicting what professions will be in demand in the future, no one knows. Most fields have had their ups and downs when you are considering a time span as long as someone's potential career.
petrolero
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+2 on all of the above. Don't just get a degree, train for a job. Psychology and poli sci don't train you for jack squat. Same with generic biz degrees (except accounting).
But if you put in all the work to get an engineering degree, just be an engineer and fly for fun. You'll make an assload more money (especially straight out of school) than you'd ever make as an 80th percentile pilot. I bought my first airplane at the ripe old age of 24. But then I've never flown anything faster than a Cessna.
If you really have the desire to fly big iron, don't let anything stop you. My instrument instructor was an example - he was on a mission to fly for the airlines.
Privately employable? Sure... I hope you enjoy working at Staples (if you're lucky).
Honestly there has been a ton written about these throw-away degrees. They're nigh useless by themselves and it is a scandal that colleges and nearly everyone else pushes kids to borrow big dollars (backed by taxpayers) to get a degree - any degree.
I don't get this. Why does a blow-off degree from some easy 13th grade community college or even a state university show more work ethic than borrowing money to get one's ratings? Or getting one's ratings while earning an aviation degree?
I've bitched about this before, but many fire departments require (not request or prefer) a bachelor's level degree to become a firefighter - even if it has nothing to do with the job (and how many degrees would anyway). Dumb.
Yes. Yes it is. Poli sci and psychology should be renamed as "Path of least resistance" which is what everyone knows they are.
Well, a bachelors in fire-science would have something to do with the job.
What seems to be common in FDs is that you need a degree (any degree) to rise to Lt or above. 15 years ago in Hartford, CT , someone looked at the degrees people had submitted for promotion in HFD and it turned out that a number of them had purchased their diploma from the same degree printer in FL.
I do see some value in requiring people who rise to leadership positions in fire departments to obtain formal education in emergency management or fire science. But submitting a bachelors in english composition from Arizona State obtained online between calls probably doesn't add much to the qualification as a firefighter or fire officer.
NoHeat
Final Approach
Nursing is a good major for those who want certainty of a decent job, but don't like math. If aviation doesn't work out, you can find a job literally anywhere, and it will pay at least as much as the median family income.
JB1842
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Radiology Tech if you want to be in the medical field. No poop, blood, or puke.
bnt83
Final Approach
Best degree on the planet is a philosophy, you can work at any coffee shop in the world with that.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Agreed with all above. As I said, get a degree that trains you for a job - fire science certainly would do that. I would see far more benefit from getting a paramedic cert than from a BS in psychology yet if all you have is the former, you're apparently SOL.
But the FDs I'm thinking of apparently require the degree for entry-level firefighters. Many of their senior LTs, captains and majors are grandfathered and weren't required to have degrees. So that tells me there is a lot more value to job experience. So they force guys to waste 4 years earning a degree - and 4 of the fittest years of their lives if they go to college right after HS. Seems counterproductive overall.
They use the degree requirement, among other things, as a way to cut down the number of applications they receive. Seems arbitrary to me.
I was going to suggest that earlier. As long as an RN maintains his certification and keeps up with continuing education requirements, there is always going to be a job waiting for him. Getting into nursing school isn't trivial and unless you really want to do it, it's a long 4 years just to get a backup degree.
That's more of an associates level or certificate level thing. As jobs with a 2 year training track go, few beat x-ray tech in money and job security. The thing to remember though is that you get hired for your experience, not the piece of paper. Also, many departments operate on seniority. So to get into the more interesting parts of the job, you have work at least a couple of years full-time to gain the experience to do things like CT or MRI. The good money comes either with sticking around long enough in a government job or by working things like overnight shifts. With your fresh X-ray degree in hand, you may not even be able to hire into clinical position right away. Our fresh hires out of x-ray school put in a couple of months working the overnight shift in the fileroom (there are no physical files, it is a computer and communications job to get the studies from outlying sites to the overnight radiologist).
Oh, completely arbitrary and makes no sense. So you are going to choose the 22 year old english major over a 20yo kid who has been running calls with his local VFD since he is 16 and already has FF2 and EMT-I certifications.
Checkout_my_Six
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Yes, it does work that way. The guy doing the screening and interviewing most likely picks who they like.....and if he has the paper from big U.....guess who he's hiring?
Big U grads.....
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
LOL. That and art history and many other liberal arts degrees. Degrees with little job prospects but large student loan debt and a bunch of whining punks crying about how the system is unfairly stacked against them. They fail to grasp that they made a bad choice.
Checkout_my_Six
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RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
Okay, but...
Look, at some point you have to be pragmatic. It's really not so much about what "interests you" as it is about what will be useful to you in terms of making a living. That doesn't mean majoring in something you hate. But the usefulness of the degree really should be one of your highest priorities.
My admittedly unflattering opinion of American undergraduate notwithstanding, If you're going to
If you have a "hatred" of math, then that leaves out engineering and physics. Chemistry or biology are less math-intensive, but also don't provide as many good employment opportunities at the Bachelor's level. You probably could get a job as a technician of some sort, but certainly not as a scientist in those disciplines, with a B.S.
Bachelor's degrees in psychology are useless for anything other than attending grad school. Don't waste your time unless you really think you would like to be a psychologist. Seriously. It's an utterly useless degree.
Sociology is slightly better (and anthropology better yet if the degree program is carefully crafted) because there actually are some entry-level social research-related jobs for which a B.A. in sociology or anthropology would qualify a person. Marketing companies, government agencies, and others who want to understand the workings of society are the usual employers.
For a sociology or anthropology degree to be useful, however, it has to include some pretty serious statistics courses. For employability purposes, a sociology or anthropology degree should include, at a minimum, courses in computational, analytical, multivariate, and inferential statistics. These are usually upper-division courses, so you'll also need their prerequisites.
Another Bachelor's degree that's actually marginally useful is a Bachelor of Social Work degree from a school that's accredited by the Council on Social Work Education. An accredited B.S.W. qualifies you for a lot of low-paying, usually depressing, and therefore easy-to-get social welfare jobs. But it also means you can earn an M.S.W. in one year, which in most states qualifies you to be licensed as a therapist after a relatively brief internship. A Master's in psychology, on the other hand, qualifies you for nothing in most states.
A B.S.W. also will qualify you for grad school in psychology just as well as a B.A. in psychology will. So if helping people sort out their lives is what interests you, I'd say a B.S.W. is a much better way to start than a B.A. in psych.
If you are one hundred percent sure that you want to spend the rest of your life in aviation (but not necessarily as a pilot), then I'd suggest an aviation-related degree toward which your FAA certs will have value. This can be done "traditionally" at an aviation college, or non-traditionally through a school like Thomas Edison State College. But be aware that either way, an aviation degree will have little usefulness outside of aviation. It may satisfy the requirements of non-aviation employers who merely want some evidence that you're not a moron, but that's about it.
Finally, if being an airline pilot is all you ever want to do, and if you're willing to roll the dice, then just take a major in whatever you enjoy. If the history of basket weaving in Lower Slobovia is your passion, then hey, go for it. The airlines won't care. They mainly want proof that you were able to successfully endure four years in an environment characterized by enforced regimentation, deference, ass-kissing, and unthinking conformity, and are therefore more likely to fit into their own corporate culture.
Rich
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FloridaPilot
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I respectfully disagree,
When I obtained my Computer Science Degree, (In the mid 90's) Technology was starting to change very rapidly. Once I got out of School Pascal and Cobol wasn't used as much and Visual Basic just started to become popular in the Mid 90's With C++. I learned those programming languages but as a self study, I didn't need a degree for that. In fact, the people that I was employed with didn't go to school at all to learn these languages. A degree that teaches you just the basics is NOT going to get you hired anywhere. It's about the market for your skills and what proven value you can bring and in technology that changes very quickly.
Business is different, it's a subject that will NEVER go away. As long as humans are on this earth there will be someone buying something and selling something. Computers and Technology changes VERY quickly, (Sometimes year to year). If I could do it all over again I would've gotten into business.
But that is just me!
My point
FloridaPilot
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Cosign!!
Definitely. A friend's daughter got her four year art history degree in five years at U Wisconsin (aka People's Republic of Madison). She's been a barista for going on seven years now. Early seniority, I guess.
docmirror
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Cowboy - yeehah!
1. If you hate math, forget any of the engineering disciplines.
2. Keep your college costs to a minimum.
3. Get a degree in anything you like, but don't plan on it being useful after you graduate.
4. No borrowing for school.
5. Plan to have a job in a semi-skill trade while you work toward your comm aviation goals.
6. No loans! You need to graduate with no debt so you can work for peanuts while you gain hours as a CFI or banner tow pilot.
2. Keep your college costs to a minimum.
3. Get a degree in anything you like, but don't plan on it being useful after you graduate.
4. No borrowing for school.
5. Plan to have a job in a semi-skill trade while you work toward your comm aviation goals.
6. No loans! You need to graduate with no debt so you can work for peanuts while you gain hours as a CFI or banner tow pilot.
JB1842
En-Route
It's my understanding it epends on the state whether it's a 2 year program, certificate, or 4 year degree. My friends wife said it made more sense for her to get the 4 year degree for money reasons and that it opens up more doors.
Sure, you can get a 4 year degree, but that degree has couresework that goes beyond what is required for registration as RT. If the goal is to have any bachelors degree AND a non-aviation fallback job that will always put food on the table, that can be a good option.
But as I mentioned, just like in pretty much any other career, 5 years out, nobody will hire you for your degree, they will hire you for having x years experience in a particular area. Lots of 'travel tech' jobs out there working in a small hospital to fill a temporary staffing need. Pays well but requires experience on the common equipment platforms (Siemens/GE/Phillips/Toshi).
Another good fallback degree is ultrasound tech.
JB1842
En-Route
I won't argue experience is important. Other friend wife also go the 4 year degree (both wives were friends in the same college, ended up setting up the first wife with her husband), took 6 years off because of kids, and is now the lunch lady at the school.
weirdjim
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weirdjim
It is quite obvious that you didn't need to take a hell of a lot of English comp courses to get your degree.
Jim
Lol, the revenge of the english majors.
FloridaPilot
Pattern Altitude
Touche,
Although English is not my first language it would be wise to judge less and try to understand more!
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
They did make a poor choice, but the system is to blame also. Those protestors are just shouting at the wrong villains.
Banks are not there to lose money in general and yet they lend collectively billions to kids who major in things that will likely never enable them to pay back their loans. Why would banks do that? Well because those loans are guaranteed. And when the kids default... well they don't default because they can have their loans modified or deferred until basically forever.
And universities know all this and keep raising their tuition and adding more useless majors and adding staff and administrators and building new buildings and on and on and on.
And we keep telling kids that education is always a good thing! Go to college!
So there is an enormous racket in the college business. But still I wouldn't advise a kid to major in poli sci or psych. Wasting your time and money. If you must go to college, use the time wisely to get a degree that trains you for something.
FloridaPilot
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I agree!!
weirdjim
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RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
Jimmy cooper
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Math is important especially in modern day applications which would include airline pilot. If your not competent in math and good English you may never be lead dog anywhere. Remember what Dirty Harry said.............? A college degree which includes these subjects is essential to a decent well paying job.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
someone hasta make my coffee.....
Jimmy cooper
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Seen on the back of a plumbers van in baltimore ...." Be true to your philosophers and your plumbers or neither your ideas nor your pipes will hold water."
weirdjim
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weirdjim
Doctor calls out a plumber for a leaky pipe. Plumber fixes the pipe in ten minutes, gives the doctor a $200 bill. "Wow", says the doctor, "I don't make that much as a surgeon." "I know", says the plumber, "I didn't make that much when I was a surgeon either."
Jim
skylanerg
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harpo
Think aerospace industry sales. I've had a freakin blast for 40 years.
Still always wanted to call a Mulligans and go the airport management/operations route.
The airline industry just sucks stanky ass.
Whatever your academic path it's the job interview that's make it/break it time. Piece o' cake with the right attitude! (Barring required minimal credentials).
Good luck. Remember, hard work creates opportunities.