Cold weather and engine care..

fiveoboy01

fiveoboy01

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Dirty B
It's getting cold here. What are come concerns and procedures used to keep the engine happy in the cold? Preheaters, operational procedures, etc???

As well, what if the engine is new? What about cold weather break in?

Engine builder will obviously give me advice.. but I like to gather info from different sources.

Additionally, I noticed that my CHT probes have 4 wires coming out of them, I suspect that they may also be heating probes? One of them spliced into a harness that I plug an extension cord into, and part of that harness goes into the oil pan(pan heater is my guess)... I thought it was a Tanis, but I think those use cylinder bands for heat. Input?
 
Move the airplane to Florida,or get a plug in cylinder and block heater,also heat the cockpit ,while doing the engine. With low temps,parked outside I would plug in the tanis heater and a portable heater for the cabin,and as. Another pre caution would use a combustion heater for twenty minutes. Never had a starting problem.
 
Preheat so CHTs are above 40.

I have a space heater with ductwork that I feed through the nose gear opening and will fire up the night before on low, and when I get there the next day, everything is 70 degrees in the cowl.

Or I put it on high and run if for 60-90 minutes the day of and get em up to 45 or so.

In both cases I throw a thick comforter over the cowl for insulation.
 
The second thread (sticky) in this forum pretty much provides a good place to start learning about pre-heat.
 
Reiff Preheat system..... 50 watt band heaters clamp around the cylinders and a 100 watt aluminum HotStrip element epoxies to the oil sump. Also added a switchbox so I can turn the system on from home. Adding a cabin heater that I can turn on remotely when we leave the house for the airport, helps the life of the gyros.
 
There are only substitutes for a warm hangar.
 
Wasn't this just a topic a few days ago?

I wouldn't worry about it unless it's under 20f.

If you do need to preheat do what the others said, also be sure to keep that battery and gyros warm (little safety space heater will work wonders).

Cheap engine preheater setup

image.jpg


Watch out for frost.

Make sure your crank case breather tube has a few holes / slits in it to prevent this.

image.jpg
 
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Tom-D said:
There are only substitutes for a warm hangar.
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My hangar is heated, but if I recall there's some minimum monthly charge to have the gas on which was some crazy number, whether you used the heater or not.

I'll look into it more. But it might not be an option. Hangar rent is up there already.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
My hangar is heated, but if I recall there's some minimum monthly charge to have the gas on which was some crazy number, whether you used the heater or not.

I'll look into it more. But it might not be an option. Hangar rent is up there already.
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Leave the engine cold until you are ready to fly it, then pre-heat. There's much debate about leaving the heater on all the time. The only thing that matters is the engine is above 40 degrees when it is cranked.
Don't forget to use your winterization kit to help keep the engine temps up during flight.
 
James331 said:
Make sure your crank case breather tube has a few holes / slits in it to prevent this.
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Lycoming has an AD for this, Continental has no such requirement.
 
Tom-D said:
Lycoming has an AD for this, Continental has no such requirement.
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As can be seen in the picture I posted, don't Barons have continentals?

Every aircraft I've owned had the breather mod done, I would be reluctant to fly a piston aircraft in freezing conditions without it.
 
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Tom-D said:
Leave the engine cold until you are ready to fly it, then pre-heat. There's much debate about leaving the heater on all the time. The only thing that matters is the engine is above 40 degrees when it is cranked.
Don't forget to use your winterization kit to help keep the engine temps up during flight.
Click to expand...

I have the oil cooler block-off plate installed. Not sure what else is needed or required, if anything.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
I have the oil cooler block-off plate installed. Not sure what else is needed or required, if anything.
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Your POH or owner's manual should tell you what should be done.
 
James331 said:
As can be seen in the picture I posted, don't Barons have continentals?

Every aircraft I've owned had the breather mod done, I would be reluctant to fly a piston aircraft in freezing conditions without it.
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Show me how many TCM engines have a problem with this issue of freezing of the vent.

This is simply your opinion of a problem that does not exist.
 
Tom-D said:
Your POH or owner's manual should tell you what should be done.
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Thanks, I will look in it. In the past I've rented so assumed everything would be done that's needed but now that I own, it's my responsibility.

I should read that thing more often:)
 
a873a8b5-b230-4893-b087-7f624551f50c_145.jpg


Might catch sheet for this....but honestly risk is minimal if your not blatantly stupid.

You have a hangar....if switching on the gas is outrageous....than this could be a cost effective solution. Fire her up night before or 4-5 hrs before and should be toasty(relative) to outside.

Don't tell anyone....there will be safety police out there.;)
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Thanks, I will look in it. In the past I've rented so assumed everything would be done that's needed but now that I own, it's my responsibility.

I should read that thing more often:)
Click to expand...

Also, get the MM and IPC for your aircraft, and AD log and require your maintenance to review and comply with each and every AD.
 
GMascelli said:
Reiff Preheat system..... 50 watt band heaters clamp around the cylinders and a 100 watt aluminum HotStrip element epoxies to the oil sump. Also added a switchbox so I can turn the system on from home. Adding a cabin heater that I can turn on remotely when we leave the house for the airport, helps the life of the gyros.
Click to expand...

I did the Reiff kit above plus the 25 watt heater on the oil cooler. I don't have the switchbox, but I live on an airport so no issue to walk out and plug it in. Plug the cowl air inlets, throw a blanket over the cowl, and put gun socks over your prop blades. It is nice to be able to start with ease and have the temp come right up to the bottom of the green band.
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
a873a8b5-b230-4893-b087-7f624551f50c_145.jpg


Might catch sheet for this....but honestly risk is minimal if your not blatantly stupid.

You have a hangar....if switching on the gas is outrageous....than this could be a cost effective solution. Fire her up night before or 4-5 hrs before and should be toasty(relative) to outside.

Don't tell anyone....there will be safety police out there.;)
Click to expand...
My Hangar at BVS had overhead radiant gas heating, it did not have to be turned on at all times, we could turn it off and on by the thermostat, when I was working there I'd turn it on, let it heat the hangar to 65 degrees, then turn it off. It took about 15 minutes to warn the hangar.

Try this the day you would like to fly.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
I did the Reiff kit above plus the 25 watt heater on the oil cooler. I don't have the switchbox, but I live on an airport so no issue to walk out and plug it in. Plug the cowl air inlets, throw a blanket over the cowl, and put gun socks over your prop blades. It is nice to be able to start with ease and have the temp come right up to the bottom of the green band.
Click to expand...

I need to get the gun socks, that's a great idea. I have heavy padded moving blankets to cover the cowl and they hang just over the prop. With the plugs installed it keeps everything pretty toasty when I reach in to unplug. At start up I'm just below the green on my oil temps.
 
Tom-D said:
Show me how many TCM engines have a problem with this issue of freezing of the vent.

This is simply your opinion of a problem that does not exist.
Click to expand...


image.jpg



One snippet

Cubus Maximus
01-15-2009, 12:08 PM
Grant,

An example of a whistle hole save. Pulled this ice plug out of the breather tube after a flight from Brainerd to Warroad.

breather_tube_ice.jpg
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Here's some further discussion on it.
http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-34368.html




I didn't add in my first post, using split weight oil is also a smart idea in the cold.
 
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I went to the local VOA store and bought a couple of sleeping bags for $4 or $5 each and throw those over my cowl while preheating.
 
Multi weight oil is best in cold and hot climate. It's even better at hot temps than straight 50w. If the oil overheats to 250-300f the multi weight oil will be thicker at 300f as it thins less than straight. Straight weight oil should be a thing of the past. + 1 for Reiff 50w bands. Also dont but the 100w turbo bands unless you only plug in just before launch. They won't hold up to 24/7 operation as they get to hot and short out. The 50w are great . I went though 4 of the 100w. Now I just heat for a hour and go.


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Aaronk25 said:
Multi weight oil is best in cold and hot climate. It's even better at hot temps than straight 50w. If the oil overheats to 250-300f the multi weight oil will be thicker at 300f as it thins less than straight. Straight weight oil should be a thing of the past. + 1 for Reiff 50w bands. Also dont but the 100w turbo bands unless you only plug in just before launch. They won't hold up to 24/7 operation as they get to hot and short out. The 50w are great . I went though 4 of the 100w. Now I just heat for a hour and go.


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Got a reference for that opinion?

Shell and Phillips both disagree.
 
Sure do Ed Collins, who brought cam guard to the market. He gave a presentation at this years mooney summit and he asked the question "if the engine get hot, really hot, as in oil temps at 300f which oil will protect better a multi weight or a single straight weight"? I thought a straight weight cause it wouldn't be as thin at higher temps but actually he said that the multi vis oil has viscosity modifiers in it which keep the oil from thinning as fast as straight weight oil. Almost everyone in the room got the answer wrong. He is a chemist and worked for a couple of the aviation oil company in a lead chemist role.

So it makes sense but in my own thoughts as I understand it and if someone knows more about it please re-explain it. But basically a 20w-50w oil isn't a blend of 2 different weight oils it really is a 20w oil with viscosity modifiers which means it doesn't thin as fast as a straight 20w oil. So it's a 20w oil when at a cold temp and it thins at a slower rate so when the oil gets to 212f or 100c, it's the same viscosity or thickness as what a straight weight 50w oil would be offering similar protection. The difference is that the straight 50w when heated even higher continues to thin at a faster rate than the oil containing the viscosity modifiers.

Ed compared the viscosity modifiers to round balls such as tennis balls that continue to grow in size as temperate increases and they never stop growing.

Pretty interesting discussion.


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Aaronk25 said:
Straight weight oil should be a thing of the past.
Click to expand...

Multi-viscosity has advantages, but straight weight oil still has its place.

Multi-viscosity is great as long as the engine is getting regular use. If the engine sits for lengthy periods, particularly in a moist environment, straight weight IS better because it costs/sticks to the internals better.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Multi-viscosity has advantages, but straight weight oil still has its place.

Multi-viscosity is great as long as the engine is getting regular use. If the engine sits for lengthy periods, particularly in a moist environment, straight weight IS better because it costs/sticks to the internals better.
Click to expand...


I'd agree with that why we pulled my engine apart that had 50w, it had sat for 2 weeks and it still had a oil drop clinging to the cam. Good point.


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Aaronk25 said:
Sure do Ed Collins, who brought cam guard to the market. He gave a presentation at this years mooney summit and he asked the question "if the engine get hot, really hot, as in oil temps at 300f which oil will protect better a multi weight or a single straight weight"? I thought a straight weight cause it wouldn't be as thin at higher temps but actually he said that the multi vis oil has viscosity modifiers in it which keep the oil from thinning as fast as straight weight oil. Almost everyone in the room got the answer wrong. He is a chemist and worked for a couple of the aviation oil company in a lead chemist role.

So it makes sense but in my own thoughts as I understand it and if someone knows more about it please re-explain it. But basically a 20w-50w oil isn't a blend of 2 different weight oils it really is a 20w oil with viscosity modifiers which means it doesn't thin as fast as a straight 20w oil. So it's a 20w oil when at a cold temp and it thins at a slower rate so when the oil gets to 212f or 100c, it's the same viscosity or thickness as what a straight weight 50w oil would be offering similar protection. The difference is that the straight 50w when heated even higher continues to thin at a faster rate than the oil containing the viscosity modifiers.

Ed compared the viscosity modifiers to round balls such as tennis balls that continue to grow in size as temperate increases and they never stop growing.

Pretty interesting discussion.


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Have you ever stopped to think? Ed sells a remedy in a can?
Yes, he is very smart on oils.
 
Not sure what a remedy in a can has to do with a oil expert that has no financial interest which oil is used with his product.

Did what I said make any sense to you?


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Aaronk25 said:
Not sure what a remedy in a can has to do with a oil expert that has no financial interest which oil is used with his product.

Did what I said make any sense to you?
Click to expand...

In as much as any oil is better with his stuff in it.

Do you deny Ed is a sales man?
 
I think we've crossed wires here. I dont dispute he is selling a product the reason I believe he is neutral is his product can go in any avaition oil (ex brand, single weight ect). So as far as what a person pours in the sump, he doesn't have a dog in that race.




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Tom-D said:
all of which have a Lycoming. and is required.

That plug, Lycoming ?

That plug, on a TCM engine would have been blown out or never formed, due to HOT air being discharged.
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I put firesleeve over the portion of the crankcase vents that run across the top of my Baron engines to keep the hot air from cooling down in really cold (e.g. -40 or below) air.
 
gismo said:
I put firesleeve over the portion of the crankcase vents that run across the top of my Baron engines to keep the hot air from cooling down in really cold (e.g. -40 or below) air.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty good idea, most folks are afraid of the water condensing in the tube, freezing, and blocking the venting.
 
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