Cloud Heights for Checkride

Bummer about the reschedule. I'll share that my check ride day was far from a nice day. The weather was marginal VFR all day and my rude was for 400pm. I actually called the flight school to ask for a new day. They agreed and said sure we can cancel only to call back an hour later saying the DPE was just up on a check ride and all was good. Clouds were still low and at one point during the hood work we flew into a few by mistake( got a break since I was taking off the foggels and the DPE said he was not even aware they were there until we were in them.). All worked well though an I passed so it just goes to show you that forecasts are just a educated prediction, to be respected for sure, but not always truly matching the conditions.

Good luck when your ride comes. When do you think you will reschedule?
 
Yep, just officially called it off. Looking at OVC023... not up to 3500 till 6. I talked to the DPE about it, and he said he'll only cash half the check, then I can see if I can get the ride done over spring break back home (where the skies aren't the color of death all the time). I just need to find an examiner who'll only charge me for the flight portion and will accept the oral form from my first DPE.
 
How does one cash half a check?
This ought to be worth enough to you to take a weekday off and get it done....or maybe it's not....or maybe you really cannot?
 
Well, I have Tuesdays and Thursdays off but am looking at terrible weather. Otherwise, my teachers don't take kindly to skipping without a doctors note--and I don't need to give my parents another reason to say that flying is interfering with other priorities... they would make me stop at the drop of a hat. So if I do poorly on a test it's automatically the fault of the flight I took the week before. Not gonna go there... as for cashing half a check I guess he would just ask for half the money?
 
ebykowsky said:
Well, I have Tuesdays and Thursdays off but am looking at terrible weather. Otherwise, my teachers don't take kindly to skipping without a doctors note--and I don't need to give my parents another reason to say that flying is interfering with other priorities... they would make me stop at the drop of a hat. So if I do poorly on a test it's automatically the fault of the flight I took the week before. Not gonna go there... as for cashing half a check I guess he would just ask for half the money?
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The semester I got my ppl I had my worst gpa ever, like a 2.7. It had nothing to do with flying. Last semester, during instrument training, I got a 3.75. Again, nothing to do with flying I just worked my butt off in class, flying and work and it showed. My parents are both pilots, so they knew what was flying related and what was me being lazy.

Good luck though. Hopefully you catch a break with the weather.
 
When obsessing about the checkride is preventing getting a paper done, it's pretty clear that flying IS interfering.
 
MAKG1 said:
When obsessing about the checkride is preventing getting a paper done, it's pretty clear that flying IS interfering.
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Haha, true. But this is special--i get all my other work done before I fly, but there's no pressure for those flights. This is akin to not getting a paper done because I have a math test I'm worried about. And I got the paper done this morning before I would have taken the check.
 
Everything happens for a reason--I'm over it :) Hopefully the DPE in SC will cooperate and accept the oral and only charge half.
 
You can give that DPE the other half of the check. ;)

Good luck to you!
 
I would reschedule and let the DPE know the conditions are best to avoid due to low clouds. It would make a good impression on the checkride.
 
skynewbie said:
I would reschedule and let the DPE know the conditions are best to avoid due to low clouds. It would make a good impression on the checkride.
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Not necessarily.

The ADM has to be prudent. If it's excessively cautious, that could be a problem. Like if you said you didn't want to fly around 6000 foot ceilings with a forecast to remain that way.

I've heard numerous examples for crosswinds. As student pilots, we may have been limited to something small like 5 knots crosswind, but the instructor will expect anything up to the aircraft's max demonstrated.

It's a red flag if you only want to fly on perfect days. What happens when the weather shifts to something less than perfect, but still well short of dangerous?
 
I don't think I'll be taking a test in 15kts direct xwind though. My instructor wouldn't fly in 20 straight down the centerline.
 
MAKG1 said:
Here's the problem. One of the "special emphasis areas" is ADM. It is a big problem that you're making decisions about what you want to be true, not what the conditions really are. I know it's easier said than done, but you must make a prudent go/no-go decision.
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Amen to that. Cutting it close on a checkride only encourages doing it again later, which only leads to an eventual mishap.
 
ebykowsky said:
So, with the check scheduled for Sunday at 1pm, the clouds here are looking like 2500AGL. All other weather will be fine. I really don't want to have to cancel this, because I may not be able to get another date lined up until a month from now since I'm going home for break and weather is looking bad the next week. So, I'll be fine for pattern work with those clouds, and the PTS calls for stalls and steep turns at 1500AGL or above, but those are minimums... I could get the checkride in, just within these fine margins... but do you guys think that will be doable, and do you think the examiner will go for it? As I said, I feel like tomorrow could be a make or break day for this--and I've already paid the check, so I don't feel like paying again back in SC when I go home for another examiner to do it.
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It's up to you, examiners will go for a lot of things. I left on my PP/ME ride SVFR, the fog never did clear so we had to discontinue the landings. Came back the next day and finished.
 
ebykowsky said:
My instructor wouldn't fly in 20 straight down the centerline.
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Hmm, why? That doesn't make sense to me. Crosswind components needs to be respected when landing, of course - absolutely. But a head wind of 20? My private training included landings in 30G35 winds straight down the centerline of one airport. Took a while to make forward progress, but it was a good learning experience, and perfectly safe. The patter turns were a great lesson that day. Some airports if you can't manage those conditions you pretty much never get to fly.
 
ebykowsky said:
I don't think I'll be taking a test in 15kts direct xwind though. My instructor wouldn't fly in 20 straight down the centerline.
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That wouldn't work around here. My checkride problems were winds and not clouds. Told DPE I would "no-go" based on winds. He said let's taxi to the run-up and wait for a "lull" in the winds. Departed at plane max crosswind component and did entire ride that way. Am positive two of the landings were above the limit. Had no problems whatsoever. Was told full stop at end and then given a last second go-around ... DPE said I was doing so well he forgot to ask for one - I think he was joking (I forgot as well thinking one of my landings might end up as one anyway with those winds). He was also going to show me a couple maneuvers, but couldn't due to inbound traffic.
 
Yeah, I thought that was odd as well. I really have very little xwind experience, and whenever I try to get some, the winds either aren't very crossy or we've had to cancel because of them :(
 
ebykowsky said:
I found this amazing thing online last week called DUATS... Not sure how it took me half a year of flying to find it--I think my CFI and all the other pilots were in a conspiracy to make me struggle to get my weather.
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So I'm curious, did your instructor have you call for a briefing before every flight? Mine had me do it a few times to feel comfortable talking with a briefer, but then showed me how to do an official briefing just using DUATS (note that there are two different services: DUAT.com and DUATS.com). We still used aviationweather.gov or similar sites to get the textual metars, tafs, winds aloft, area forecasts, and charts when planning.

I still use DUATS to register the official briefing and check for NOTAMS and TFRs, but for the weather itself I've found more use from a variety of other free sites out there. If you haven't already, check out maps.avnwx.com (I love the graphical depictions of AIRMETs SIGMETs PIREPs and TFRs), weather.aero (I like the colorized prog charts), aviationweather.gov (All the textual forecasts) as a bare minimum. Lately I've been checking the computer model forecasts to monitor long term forecasts and note the trends.
 
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Yeah, I've called in every xc briefing, but local used avnwx.com or my smartphone app with all the decoded METARS and TAFs.
 
ebykowsky said:
Yeah, I've called in every xc briefing, but local used avnwx.com or my smartphone app with all the decoded METARS and TAFs.
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Gotcha. There's certainly nothing wrong with calling a briefer, especially since it's all on tape that way. I'm the type that would prefer to look over the information myself and digest it rather than have somebody else run through it quickly, so these days I only talk with a briefer if there's something unusual or a special TFR I want to get clarification on (I fly around DC).

Incidentally I grew up in Columbia and fly down to KCUB semi-often.... best of luck!
 
greghughes said:
Hmm, why? That doesn't make sense to me. Crosswind components needs to be respected when landing, of course - absolutely. But a head wind of 20? My private training included landings in 30G35 winds straight down the centerline of one airport. Took a while to make forward progress, but it was a good learning experience, and perfectly safe. The patter turns were a great lesson that day. Some airports if you can't manage those conditions you pretty much never get to fly.
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I agree get a new instructor. I have had my CFI(I) cancel a flight for a 25 kt direct crosswind, but I have done less than that with her a number of times. As for a 20 or even 25 kt crosswind directly or within 20 degrees of the runway heading, that landing is probably going to be as easy as it gets. They are slow in progress but whereas your airspeed is above stall and reasonable your groundspeed is 20 knts less and you will grease it everytime. In fact I prefer wind over calm conditions. My landings in calm winds are good, my landings in mild to moderate winds are okay, my landings in moderate to strong winds are typically my best.
 
douglas393 said:
As for a 20 or even 25 kt crosswind directly or within 20 degrees of the runway heading, that landing is probably going to be as easy as it gets.
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So long as it's a nice sustained wind that's true. I hate landing with gusty winds straight down the runway more than landing with a sustained crosswind. 12G15 at a 50 degree angle is not a big deal, but 7G22 straight down the runway sucks right when you're trying to flair.
 
ebykowsky said:
I don't think I'll be taking a test in 15kts direct xwind though. My instructor wouldn't fly in 20 straight down the centerline.
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What flight school is this?
 
Eagle Aviation in SC. The school in pa never had any winds to deal with while I was flying.
 
I've actually never dealt with more than 8 kts xwind.
 
greghughes said:
Hmm, why? That doesn't make sense to me. Crosswind components needs to be respected when landing, of course - absolutely. But a head wind of 20? My private training included landings in 30G35 winds straight down the centerline of one airport. Took a while to make forward progress, but it was a good learning experience, and perfectly safe. The patter turns were a great lesson that day. Some airports if you can't manage those conditions you pretty much never get to fly.
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And more importantly, what if you arrive at a destination after a long cross-country approaching the 30 minute reserve, and there are unforecast winds like that. Whatcha gonna do? You can divert, but odds are, everything close by has similar weather. And unforecast headwinds have a way of making those reserves matter more, so you may be landing at an unfamiliar field short of your destination.

Of course the right answer is to keep a bigger reserve, but that may be limited by gross weight or a high altitude romp in the mountains (which may be why the winds suck).

Any instructor that would give a 20 knot direct headwind a second look needs to find a new line of work. I was doing that right after my checkride. Now, a 20 knot crosswind in a 172 might give you pause, but that's not what was going on. It's apparently not at all impossible, but I haven't landed in a crosswind that big yet.

If anything, landing in a big steady headwind is easier than "calm winds."
 
ebykowsky said:
I don't think I'll be taking a test in 15kts direct xwind though. My instructor wouldn't fly in 20 straight down the centerline.
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My first solo was in 18-20 down the center line. Started at 15kt and by the last landing it was 15g20.

Unless there is some type of insurance regulation or its a light sport that seems odd.
 
Both places I rent from have student limitations of 10 knots total wind and 5 kts cross wind, which can be increased by CFI endorsement immediately prior to the flight. I think they then go up to 15 total winds and 8 cross wind component maximum.

Anyway, point being it isn't at all unheard of for solo students to have substantial limitations. With the limited amount of x-wind experience I had during training I was clueless almost until the end. I then worked with a instructor who uses a cross wind simulator to teach the techniques in the ground. Also helpful was during my checkride, stage check and during a checkout I had some significant winds as well. It was fortunate that I was able to get cross winds figured out, because a couple weeks ago coming back from KRAP the winds rolled in faster than the TAF anticipated and I landed in 23G30. I handed that with no trouble. Getting the plane back to the ramp was tougher than the landing!
 
dukeblue219 said:
So long as it's a nice sustained wind that's true. I hate landing with gusty winds straight down the runway more than landing with a sustained crosswind. 12G15 at a 50 degree angle is not a big deal, but 7G22 straight down the runway sucks right when you're trying to flair.
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True if the gust is that much of a difference it is not going to be an easy landing, but it is doable, and I would rather do a 7g22 straight down the runway than a 7g22 direct crosswind. Then again until I learn to control the wind I have no choice but to deal appropriately with what nature dishes out.
 
MAKG1 said:
And more importantly, what if you arrive at a destination after a long cross-country approaching the 30 minute reserve, and there are unforecast winds like that. Whatcha gonna do? You can divert, but odds are, everything close by has similar weather. And unforecast headwinds have a way of making those reserves matter more, so you may be landing at an unfamiliar field short of your destination.

Of course the right answer is to keep a bigger reserve, but that may be limited by gross weight or a high altitude romp in the mountains (which may be why the winds suck).

Any instructor that would give a 20 knot direct headwind a second look needs to find a new line of work. I was doing that right after my checkride. Now, a 20 knot crosswind in a 172 might give you pause, but that's not what was going on. It's apparently not at all impossible, but I haven't landed in a crosswind that big yet.

If anything, landing in a big steady headwind is easier than "calm winds."
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Did a 22 kt direct in the 172 in training, and a number of similar winds in my 182. I will not say they were greasers but they were certainly passable. In fact when I can I will search out airports on windy days that have crosswind runways available. Unfortunately, the nice airports by me are towered and the towers rarely allow you to do crosswind landings, so I go to some of the smaller airports with relatively shorter(though not too short) strips, and join the rest of the guys with the same idea.
 
GauzeGuy said:
Both places I rent from have student limitations of 10 knots total wind and 5 kts cross wind, which can be increased by CFI endorsement immediately prior to the flight. I think they then go up to 15 total winds and 8 cross wind component maximum.

Anyway, point being it isn't at all unheard of for solo students to have substantial limitations. With the limited amount of x-wind experience I had during training I was clueless almost until the end. I then worked with a instructor who uses a cross wind simulator to teach the techniques in the ground. Also helpful was during my checkride, stage check and during a checkout I had some significant winds as well. It was fortunate that I was able to get cross winds figured out, because a couple weeks ago coming back from KRAP the winds rolled in faster than the TAF anticipated and I landed in 23G30. I handed that with no trouble. Getting the plane back to the ramp was tougher than the landing!
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You're based at KAPA right? I came into KRAP from... Gosh I don't remember the identifier now .. Sheridan, WY, one day and it was 35g45. Talk about An adventure. Flying out of KRAP for a couple months taught me more about winds than I'd learn in 5 years here. I am looking forward to going back! Both times I went to KAPA it was wonderful there but yucky in KRAP. It's always KRAP and KRAP.
 
The day of my scary old checkride, I had to cancel after the oral. It was just way too windy. DPE was proud of my decision and I pretty much passed based on that...




...and my extraordinary flying skills.
 
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