Class B transition.

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evapilotaz

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Is it best to contact Class B approach even if you are transitioning below or above Class B? I think its a good Idea just to let them know your out there. Is it best to remain silent to not congest the frequency?

Thanks.
 
Sure contact them. Might as well get flight following for the whole trip if your at it.
 
evapilotaz said:
Is it best to contact Class B approach even if you are transitioning below or above Class B? I think its a good Idea just to let them know your out there. Is it best to remain silent to not congest the frequency?

Thanks.
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They are the same people that give flight following.

Get flight following anywhere near Class B.
 
If its busy AND I'm below or above their airspace, I generally won't make the call. If the frequency dies down and is not too busy I'll give them a friendly heads up
 
MachFly said:
Sure contact them. Might as well get flight following for the whole trip if your at it.
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That is what we do all the time. PIT cleared me through 5 nm prior without asking. Hardly ever get dropped, especially from 10.5-17.5.
 
RV10flyer said:
That is what we do all the time. PIT cleared me through 5 nm prior without asking. Hardly ever get dropped, especially from 10.5-17.5.
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PIT is a pretty benign Class B. But even with the NY Bravo, I've always been cleared through and the controllers are usually helpful
 
I was cleared thru boston yesterday. Had more trouble with Indy. Man when those fed ex planes are taking off looks like the runway is shooting off fireworks.
 
The thing is, if you're not getting flight following and don't want to ask for it, the guys at the busy Bravos (BOS, ATL, DC, etc) aren't going to want to talk to you unless you're doing something particularly egregious like circling 50 feet below the ceiling directly on the approach path. If you're just flying past they don't care because you're not in their space.

If you are at a slower Bravo (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, etc), then you might as well just ask for the transition or flight following because they'll have plenty of time to talk to you.
 
evapilotaz said:
Is it best to contact Class B approach even if you are transitioning below or above Class B? I think its a good Idea just to let them know your out there. Is it best to remain silent to not congest the frequency?

Thanks.
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Depends on the Bravo. Some are more VFR friendly than others. For example, SoCal is pretty accommodating whereas Phoenix has somewhat of a negative reputation for dealing with the VFR crowd (although I have heard it has improved since the Superstition Mountains crash). Doesn't hurt to ask them. If they don't want to deal with you, they will tell you.
 
evapilotaz said:
Is it best to contact Class B approach even if you are transitioning below or above Class B? I think its a good Idea just to let them know your out there. Is it best to remain silent to not congest the frequency?

Thanks.
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You can't transition a class Bravo without permission. If you try it you can get your rear tackled at the ramp.

Many Bravos have corridors you can use, or if you are trying to fly over them, you better ask for permission.
 
Find most class Bravos very accommodating ,as long as you don't want to cross the final approach course at a low altitude. You can always ask for clearance through a class B without requesting flight following.
 
evapilotaz said:
I think it would be less stressful to get flight following then trying to avoid busting Class B airspace.
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Don't get confused and think that talking with approach is an automatic bravo clearance. Talking to them and getting radar advisories may give you a better shot at getting them to give you one though.

One thing I've found when flying near high traffic metro areas with multiple airports is that unless I'm transitioning their whole area or working my way into some complex airspace I don't typically bother calling approach. They're just going to dump you off on whatever tower or CTAF for the airport you're landing at within a minute or two anyway so why bother?
 
I dodge under the PHX B all the time, especially if I'm going from CHD to FFZ or IWA. I ask for the transition if I'm headed to SDL, DVT or of course PHX though. They're nice controllers.
 
PHX Bravo is notorious for being "busy" when getting VFR calls. Not usually for the transition, but other calls often get the "try back in 10 minutes" routine. Nice enough, but busy. They'be even dumped me when ABQ flight following tries to transfer me to them. Or wouldn't setup flight following for me as I was leaving the Phoenix area.
As I brush by the numerous Ds in Phoenix, I'll call the towers and just let them know whether or not I'm intending to enter their space. They seem to like the FYI.
 
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CT4ME said:
PHX Bravo is notorious for being "busy" when getting VFR calls. Not usually for the transition, but other calls often get the "try back in 10 minutes" routine. Nice enough, but busy.
As I brush by the numerous Ds in Phoenix, I'll call the towers and just let them know whether or not I'm intending to enter their space. They seem to like the FYI.
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CT4ME. They don't make you call approach control? I fly around a class C all the time, gotta talk to NORCAL approach to transition.
 
Case by case, really. When I flew near PHL, I almost always talked to them to get a transition. Heading up to NYC if I wasn't handed off from Philly it was maybe 50/50 at best.

I don't think SoCal has ever declined near SAN, but that may be different as you get up toward LA.

Until you know the area, it never hurts to ask. Think about where you're going and what the Bravo guys want you to do - it isn't always a very efficient route, its just the one that's easier for them to manage.
 
Yes, all contact done through Phoenix Approach, several freqs depending on ALT and direction. 'Just saying they have a reputation of not wanting to deal with the mosquitoes.
 
CT4ME said:
Yes, all contact done through Phoenix Approach, several freqs depending on ALT and direction. 'Just saying they have a reputation of not wanting to deal with the mosquitoes.
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A big part of the problem is the high volume of tin going into PHX mixed with the exceptionally high volume of student traffic, much of which is foreign and English can be a challenge. Over the years PHX TRACON learned that it was easier to just say 'NO' to VFR requests.
 
The controllers from DTW that I talked to specifically said that they would rather be talking to you so they know your intentions. And, "stay clear of bravo does not mean we don't don't want to talk to you." Chances of getting clearance into the B depends on how busy they are at the moment.
 
Keep in mind that traffic count is important to controllers and facility managers...if the traffic count goes up, everybody gets brownie points. You don't do ATC any favors by not talking to them.

Bob Gardner
 
Memphis controllers want to talk to you. Very friendly. Heck, right now they're asking for us little guys to come practice on the big runways at KMEM (outside of FedEx pushes).
 
I fly through the Denver class B all the time. I find it funny when I hear other pilots telling me they can never go through. I ask if they ask for it and they say well no. I have even had Denver give me B clearance on multiple occasions when just on flight following with them.

For me it is simple. If you are going to fly below or above busy airspace like that, get flight following. If it is easier to go through, ask, they will likely let you if it doesn't conflict with busy times at the airport.

Carl
 
Ok I was wrong in my terminology when I said transition through Class B. What I want to do is fly below.

I too have flown to FFZ, SDL and IWA without contacting PHX approach. I want to fly to GEU, GYR and DVT without have to contact PHX approach. I will be taking off from CHD.

See Map for my planned routes.
 

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Atlanta controllers are very nice IMO, but it's rare to get clearance through the bravo. going N-S and S-N, I usually get vectored around. When they do give the route overflying the airport, I feel like it's my birthday. :lol:
 
Very easy and done often. No PHX approach needed. Just watch for the "to the ground" areas and keep track of the shelf. Over on the west side you need to stay West of the "tank farms" and lower than 3,000 feet. I usually fly about 59th ave for N/S (below 3k). You'll easily see the stadium, which is just East of GEU.
A fun flight around Phoenix is circling the valley... FFZ, IWA, CHD, GYR, GEU, DVT, and SDL. It'll keep you on your toes, but fun.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The controllers from DTW that I talked to specifically said that they would rather be talking to you so they know your intentions. And, "stay clear of bravo does not mean we don't don't want to talk to you." Chances of getting clearance into the B depends on how busy they are at the moment.
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I've found Detroit to be very accommodating. I've asked for the transition probably 5ish times leaving ARB southbound and approaching northbound, and I've never been denied. This all since the B was expanded up there. I'm not sure what it was like before because I never tried for the transition, but apparently the controllers were going to try to be good about letting people in.
 
CT4ME said:
Very easy and done often. No PHX approach needed. Just watch for the "to the ground" areas and keep track of the shelf. Over on the west side you need to stay West of the "tank farms" and lower than 3,000 feet. I usually fly about 59th ave for N/S (below 3k). You'll easily see the stadium, which is just East of GEU.
A fun flight around Phoenix is circling the valley... FFZ, IWA, CHD, GYR, GEU, DVT, and SDL. It'll keep you on your toes, but fun.
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That is a lot of Class D tower talking hitting all those airports. Thanks for the tips.
 
I don't usually get flight following underflying class B unless I actually intend on flying through it. But - there is one downside for me. SFO class B is surrounded by OAK and SJC class C outer areas. So if I do get FF, I'm actually receiving class C services within the outer area and I will get vectors and altitude restrictions. One of these deals where I don't have to talk to them, but if I do, I need to do what they say.

That's not really a big enough issue not to talk to them of course, it's just one consequence to think about.
 
David, I live in Gilbert and have a plane. If you want to do some flying and work in and around Bravo send me a PM I love to fly and you can get some time in a practically all new AA-5 while we are at it.
 
evapilotaz said:
PM sent to Tony
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I am based sdl, and use the vfr transition all the time. It's a lot faster than going around. Just contact approach and ask for vectors for the vfr transition.
 
evapilotaz said:
I think it would be less stressful to get flight following then trying to avoid busting Class B airspace.

Thanks Mach and Mak.
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Flight following doesn't keep you from busting class B.
 
frcabot said:
Flight following doesn't keep you from busting class B.
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Sometimes flight following does help avoiding, but it's not really their responsibility and shouldn't be relied upon.

Or sometimes they even give clearances without even being asked.
 
I tried to make contact in Atlanta's Bravo the other day. Couldn't get a word in - so stayed below the shelf and continued onwards... and I tried 3 or 4 different freqs. CRAZY out there :)
 
MAKG1 said:
Sometimes flight following does help avoiding, but it's not really their responsibility and shouldn't be relied upon.

Or sometimes they even give clearances without even being asked.
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Yes. I've flown FRG to ACY dozens of times and when I'm VFR I'll usually get FF. When I get handed off to NY coming back, they'll usually clear me into the Bravo without asking.
 
jordane93 said:
Yes. I've flown FRG to ACY dozens of times and when I'm VFR I'll usually get FF. When I get handed off to NY coming back, they'll usually clear me into the Bravo without asking.
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Ya you may get cleared without asking. My point is just getting flight following doesn't automatically clear you (like it does for Class C) nor does it tell you where the Class B is. With an ifr flight plan, however, you don't have to worry about any of it.
 
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