Class B Airspace

[Snaggletooth]

What is the Floor of the Class B Airspace over KAXH??

Doing my Pre-solo test and it's one of my questions.

 

[RMCN172RG]

What is the Floor of the Class B Airspace over KAXH??

Doing my Pre-solo test and it's one of my questions.

Looking at the sectional appears there is a cut out around the airport with a floor of 2500.

You do have a sectional right?

 

[crash7]

http://skyvector.com/#51-111-3-1518-1926

 

[gismo]

What is the Floor of the Class B Airspace over KAXH??

Doing my Pre-solo test and it's one of my questions.

According to my data it's 2500 MSL directly over the runway and 2000 MSL a half mile east. You should be able to see this on the Houston Terminal Area Chart and IMO it's more important to know how to find this info than it is to remember it beyond any given flight.

 

[ScottM]

What is the Floor of the Class B Airspace over KAXH??

Doing my Pre-solo test and it's one of my questions.

No offense but this is a really basic question and if you cannot look at the chart and come up with that answer I am thinking you are not ready to solo. Now if you think you know and are asking us to verify your analysis that is another issue all together. But for that type of question I would have expected you to say what you think the floor of the bravo is.

 

[gismo]

No offense but this is a really basic question and if you cannot look at the chart and come up with that answer I am thinking you are not ready to solo. Now if you think oyu know and are asking us to verify your analysis that is another issue all together. But for that type of question I would have expected you to say what you think the floor of the bravo is.

I agree and I also think it's just as important to be able to locate the Class B boundaries on the chart and on the ground. There won't be any blue or magenta lines on the Earth for you to see but many times those lines follow visually identifiable terrain features like rivers and roads.

 

[MikePapa]

You do have a sectional right?

And also a Terminal Area Chart.

 

[ghayes]

No offense but this is a really basic question and if you cannot look at the chart and come up with that answer I am thinking you are not ready to solo. Now if you think oyu know and are asking us to verify your analysis that is another issue all together. But for that type of question I would have expected you to say what you think the floor of the bravo is.

I would disagree that this question was that simple, at least when looking on the sectional. It is much easier to see the boundaries on the TAC.

On the sectional, the little Class B boundary nearly overlays some other boundary and I find it very difficult to see (at least on sky vector, maybe the paper is different). The bigger clue, then, is the annotation pointing to the small section.

 

[ScottM]

I would disagree that this question was that simple, at least when looking on the sectional. It is much easier to see the boundaries on the TAC.

On the sectional, the little Class B boundary nearly overlays some other boundary and I find it very difficult to see. The bigger clue, then, is the annotation pointing to the small section.

A solo student should be able to identify the airspace boundaries around their airport. That is basic. If they cannot then more training is needed to be able to do so. If that training neglected to include looking at all available information when one source was not adequate then the training was not up to standards.

When one considers that in this case the tag for KAXH is printed right next to the airport and the blue lines of that cutout are plain and that there is a shelf just to the north I would have hoped that the CFI had been stressing the complexities of operation around that airport from day one. the chart has no tricks on it for this airport. It was pretty straight forward. Not at all like questions where you ahv eto go to the tabs of the chart to find and answer.

 

[BigAL]

Not a basic question to someone learning. Won't be long and he'll be tell'n you guys what ya don't know. Give'm a break, he's about to solo and I bet he's nervious and doesn't want to screw up.

I'm really happy for ya Snag! I want a pic and I want to know all about it!

Do ya think it will be tomorrow or in a week? Your parents must be so proud! I am and I don't even know ya!

Good luck Snag!!! I'll be think'n of ya!

 

[BigAL]

A solo student should be able to identify the airspace boundaries around their airport. That is basic. If they cannot then more training is needed to be able to do so. If that training neglected to include looking at all available information when one source was not adequate then the training was not up to standards.

deleted

 

[ghayes]

A solo student should be able to identify the airspace boundaries around their airport. That is basic. If they cannot then more training is needed to be able to do so. If that training neglected to include looking at all available information when one source was not adequate then the training was not up to standards.

When one considers that in this case the tag for KAXH is printed right next to the airport and the blue lines of that cutout are plain and that there is a shelf just to the north I would have hoped that the CFI had been stressing the complexities of operation around that airport from day one. the chart has no tricks on it for this airport. It was pretty straight forward. Not at all like questions where you ahv eto go to the tabs of the chart to find and answer.

Guess it's good to be as perfect as you.

 

[ScottM]

Not a basic question to someone learning. Won't be long and he'll be tell'n you guys what ya don't know. Give'm a break, he's about to solo and I bet he's nervious and doesn't want to screw up.

I know. It just so sounded like a request for us to do his homework. That is why I suggested it would have beetter for him to say something like:

I got asked to state where the base of the bravo is around KAXH, from the chart it appears to be 2500MSL, is that right?

That would have shown me he at least looked at the problem first and was attempting to synthesis what he had been taught.

I do a lot of online math tutoring for high school kids. I often get asked for the answers and generally do not respond to those as that fails the person asking the question by robbing them of learning process.

I'm really happy for ya Snag! I want a pic and I want to know all about it!

Do ya think it will be tomorrow or in a week? Your parents must be so proud! I am and I don't even know ya!

Good luck Snag!!! I'll be think'n of ya!

Ditto

 

[ScottM]

Guess it's good to be as perfect as you.

Whatever.

If you think you did him a favor by giving him the answer then you are just wrong. He learned nothing but the answer to a single problem. That is a poor substitution for actually learning how to read the chart. Making a mistake when reading it is part of the learning process and is to be expected of someone just starting out. The purpose of the pre-solo test is to see what you know and don't know. Not how fast you can get someone else to give you the right answer. If you do not understand that then I am sad for you.

Snaggle now knows that he needs to spend a little more time with understanding the airspace depiction on the charts. Better to find out now as opposed to getting a bravo bust on his first solo.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Guess it's good to be as perfect as you.

I'm not sure I understand the comment. A student pilot being able to point to the Class B boundary in the airspace in which he will be doing his solo flights is a sign of "perfection" and not basic knowledge to keep his (and his CFI's) ticket intact? I must be missing something.

Now I'm curious. Would you say the same for KFTG where you can bust the B by simply flying a large pattern?

http://skyvector.com/#51-109-3-1880-1432

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I do a lot of online math tutoring for high school kids. I often get asked for the answers and generally do not respond to those as that fails the person asking the question by not getting by robbing them of learning process.

Ditto

When I was a Chem TA, the main rule for my Q&A sessions was that you had to try to solve the problem before coming in. I didn't care if they had the right answer coming in, but that they tried. Most of the time, they did solve the problem correctly and just wanted to see if they were right. If they didn't have the right answer it was easy to see where they went wrong and get them back on track.

 

[ScottM]

When I was a Chem TA, the main rule for my Q&A sessions was that you had to try to solve the problem before coming in. I didn't care if they had the right answer coming in, but that they tried. Most of the time, they did solve the problem correctly and just wanted to see if they were right. If they didn't have the right answer it was easy to see where they went wrong and get them back on track.

I am the same way and do the same thing. If they come in with nothing we do not ignore them. But we will lead them to attempt a solution. We will not just give an answer.

 

[Snaggletooth]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

 

[dmccormack]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

You need/must/have-to learn how to read sectionals.<<---- period.

You will likely not have SkyVector handy in the C152 when you have to divert due to weather ahead.

 

[MikePapa]

Not a basic question to someone learning.

Nevertheless it's a very important question that a student pilot needs to learn prior to solo, particularly if their airport falls close or under the class B veil. There's no fault in not knowing the answer, but just in not wanting to find out. I don't think that's the case with the OP, but the importance of figuring that one out on your own needs to be stressed. Soon, he won't have someone next to him giving him the answer and it's a fairly common thing for student pilots to bust the class B. Not only is that dangerous, it can get the instructor and/or the student in a lot of trouble which is not a good way to start out your aviation adventure.

 

[poadeleted20]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

Your CFI shouldn't be asking you questions the answers to which he hasn't yet taught you to find, nor the source material provided. Go get a current sectional and/or TAC chart, and a copy of the A/FD ("green book") -- no Student Pilot should be without them.

 

[ScottM]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.),

You need/must/have-to learn how to read sectionals.<<---- period.

You will likely not have SkyVector handy in the C152 when you have to divert due to weather ahead.

Dan is absolutely correct. Get the charts.

nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

Then you are also unable to read skyvector as those are just fancy pictures of the charts. You need to learn how to read them. Your CFI is doing a disservice if he is not teaching you how to read them. Demand that he spend the time teaching you how to read a chart.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

When you are solo Skyvector will not be in the seat next to you, nor will you have an Internet connection to ask people on PoA. I also do not think your CFI meant for you to get someone to take the quiz for you either. I expect he meant for you to learn using any method and then answer the questions.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

There is no need to rush, you are just starting and have plenty of time. Enjoy what you learn and learn as much as you can.

 

[EppyGA]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

Time to dig in the pocket and buy a sectional and the TAC while you're at it. As has been mentioned skyvector won't do you any good in the ockpit when the examiner diverts you.

 

[MikePapa]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

Skyvector is a great tool, but you really need to buy either a sectional or terminal area chart for your area and I would suggest you buy the Houston Terminal Area Chart(TAC) to start with. If your instructor is having you take the pre-solo test, you're probably a lot closer to soloing than you think. Initially you'll be just flying around the pattern, but you'll probably be venturing off solo into the practice area within a few days. While it's debateable whether you need a current chart if you're just staying in the pattern(although a very good idea), you definitely need one for going any farther. Getting one now and learning it just puts you ahead of the game and that's what aviation is all about.

I never fly without having a current chart open to the right area and either in my lap or within arm's reach.

 

[gprellwitz]

Your CFI shouldn't be asking you questions the answers to which he hasn't yet taught you to find, nor the source material provided. Go get a current sectional and/or TAC chart, and a copy of the A/FD ("green book") -- no pilot, including a Student Pilot should be without them.

Fixed that for you!

Sounds like Snag's CFI isn't much on teaching ground lessons, if he isn't going over airspace and how to read a sectional.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Wow. For a minute I thought this was the RED board.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Fixed that for you!

Sounds like Snag's CFI isn't much on teaching ground lessons, if he isn't going over airspace and how to read a sectional.

We don't really have enough information to make a judgment here. Other than a pre solo exam may be a bit premature.

 

[gprellwitz]

Wow. For a minute I thought this was the RED board.

Yeah, I can understand that perception, but I think Scott's right. We must encourage actual learning and investigation. Just giving a student pilot an answer does everyone a disservice. (And that's a general comment, not intended as a slam at Snag or anyone else.)

 

[Greg Bockelman]

Yeah, I can understand that perception, but I think Scott's right. We must encourage actual learning and investigation.

I agree 100%, and I would hope that my posts would back me up.

Just giving a student pilot an answer does everyone a disservice. (And that's a general comment, not intended as a slam at Snag or anyone else.)

That is true, too. But a lot of comments in this thread went way beyond that. The only thing that I think we REALLY know for sure is that a pre solo test is a bit premature.

 

[wsuffa]

I'm not sure I understand the comment. A student pilot being able to point to the Class B boundary in the airspace in which he will be doing his solo flights is a sign of "perfection" and not basic knowledge to keep his (and his CFI's) ticket intact? I must be missing something.

Now I'm curious. Would you say the same for KFTG where you can bust the B by simply flying a large pattern?

http://skyvector.com/#51-109-3-1880-1432

Or KHEF, which has another kettle 'o complication:
http://skyvector.com/#51-109-3-1880-1432

 

[mikea]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

Time to dig in the pocket and buy a sectional and the TAC while you're at it. As has been mentioned skyvector won't do you any good in the ockpit when the examiner diverts you.

BUT, but, but that costs like SEVEN DOLLARS!

IARC, the ground schoool kit came with at least sampel sectionals. I know for sure that I always had current Sectional and VFR TErminal chart.

Unbreereveable. We have the unteached teaching.

 

[gprellwitz]

Or KHEF, which has another kettle 'o complication:
http://skyvector.com/#51-109-3-1880-1432

Doesn't actually look that complicated to me. 1200' pattern altitude, 1500' Class B floor to the northeast, 1900' Class B floor to the northwest, restricted area to the south, towered airport within the SFRA, and terrain to the west. What could be easier?

 

[Doggtyred]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

Snag.. Skyvectors are sectional charts that are just bundled and sold in a different package. If you can read one you can read the other. And you should know how to read a sectional, terminal or WAC at any given time because if you lose or mess up your ability to use skyvector while on a trip, guess whats available to buy? the government charts.

The point that may or may not be being made here is.. when you fly in/around a Terminal Airspace as a VFR guy its VERY VERY helpful to have the Terminal Area Chart.

Its worth the money. The detail allows you to see the airspace superimposed over land features that just aren't as prominent on the sectional.

Most of my hours are in the Houston terminal area, and it comes in handy for getting around the class B surface area - knowing to stay south of Nasa Rd1 to avoid ellingtons Class D, knowing to stay west of the tracks to avoid IAH's surface area on the way to Hooks.. knowing that you can pass between the antenna farm and the Beltway over near you and still remain outside the hobby surface area.. that detail isn't there on the sectional.

Who are you flying with? Dutch? Success or the taildragger girls?

 

[Doggtyred]

There is no need to rush, you are just starting and have plenty of time. Enjoy what you learn and learn as much as you can.

Agreed..

it took me nearly 17 hrs to solo.. it just didn't come together until all of a sudden.. the landings clicked...

And while I solo'd late in my mind, I passed my checkride before I had 45 hrs.

 

[t0r0nad0]

Agreed..

it took me nearly 17 hrs to solo.. it just didn't come together until all of a sudden.. the landings clicked...

And while I solo'd late in my mind, I passed my checkride before I had 45 hrs.

Not so late... took me 21 hours to solo. Granted, a lot of that was various discovery flights and a false start on my lessons before running out of money.

Snag, I'll echo what has been said here... get yourself a current sectional, TAC, and A/FD. All together, that will run you about 15 bucks. If you can't get them from your school at LBX, you can get them from Dutch or Success at AXH, Anson at SGR, Main Terminal at West Houston Airport, or Flying Tigers at Ellington. They're basically the same price everywhere. Then, if you'd like, I'll be glad to sit down with you and give you a quick ground school lesson on them if your CFI hasn't done so already. If you come to our event at the museum at Hobby on August 15, I'll be glad to do it then.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I don't have a sectional for my area (I do have a old DFW I forgot I had.), nor do I know how to read them. I just use Sky Vector.

My CFI told me to get the answers anyway I could.

I don't think Solo will happen soon. I feel I need to get my landings better, but maybe my CFI see different.

Let's just hope your CFI is testing to see whether you can come up with an answer on your own.

Your CFI shouldn't be asking you questions the answers to which he hasn't yet taught you to find, nor the source material provided. Go get a current sectional and/or TAC chart, and a copy of the A/FD ("green book") -- no Student Pilot should be without them.

Not so late... took me 21 hours to solo. Granted, a lot of that was various discovery flights and a false start on my lessons before running out of money.

Snag, I'll echo what has been said here... get yourself a current sectional, TAC, and A/FD. All together, that will run you about 15 bucks. If you can't get them from your school at LBX, you can get them from Dutch or Success at AXH, Anson at SGR, Main Terminal at West Houston Airport, or Flying Tigers at Ellington. They're basically the same price everywhere. Then, if you'd like, I'll be glad to sit down with you and give you a quick ground school lesson on them if your CFI hasn't done so already. If you come to our event at the museum at Hobby on August 15, I'll be glad to do it then.

Get the local sectional. You should have gotten one the day you took your first real lesson. Read the legends. Find the stuff on the chart. Read the chart. When you find stuff you don't understand, look on the legend. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Move on to the TAC after you feel comfortable with the sectional. Same routine.

The AF/D is harder to work with because it is denser. Tells you everything you need to know about airports. Get your CFI to go over it with you. You can put it off for a little while, but be sure you know how to read it before your first cross-country.

By all means, take up PJ on his offer whether your instructor has helped you or not. You'll get another perspective and more experience.

 

[rottydaddy]

It's already been said, but it bears repeating... get the charts you need, and learn how to use them.
The main reason why is not so you can become some sort of "chart whiz"- nobody expects you to memorize all that, or the A/FD, or everything else in the FAR/AIM. And let's face it, nobody likes people who can do that.

IMHO, the single most important skill you will need to demonstrate to solo, to pass a stage check, to pass the PP check ride (or any other flight test or oral exam) is the ability to know how to find and interpret the information you need, on a timely basis. Secondary to that is having the info handy.
An instructor, or just some pilot you know, will not be doing you a favor by feeding you answers... you need to learn how to get by on your own, with the right tools in your toolbox.

I'll put it this way: if you happened to meet me outside the school after your last lesson and asked me that same question, if I knew, I wouldn't just tell you... I'd say "Where's your chart? Let's have a look."

 

[bobmrg]

Let's just hope your CFI is testing to see whether you can come up with an answer on your own.



Get the local sectional. You should have gotten one the day you took your first real lesson. Read the legends. Find the stuff on the chart. Read the chart. When you find stuff you don't understand, look on the legend. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

Move on to the TAC after you feel comfortable with the sectional. Same routine.

The AF/D is harder to work with because it is denser. Tells you everything you need to know about airports. Get your CFI to go over it with you. You can put it off for a little while, but be sure you know how to read it before your first cross-country.

By all means, take up PJ on his offer whether your instructor has helped you or not. You'll get another perspective and more experience.

I'll second Aunt Peggy's advice and add to it "Read the entire A/FD legend!!!
Many times the answer to a question posed in a forum can be answere by simply going the the legend. Reading the Communications segment is mandatory....no more "what is the frequency?" questions.

Bob Gardner

 

[Everskyward]

But a lot of comments in this thread went way beyond that.

I agree. We will make people paranoid about asking questions it we jump on them with both feet. And if people don't ask questions what will we talk about?

 

[gprellwitz]

I'll second Aunt Peggy's advice and add to it "Read the entire A/FD legend!!!
Many times the answer to a question posed in a forum can be answere by simply going the the legend. Reading the Communications segment is mandatory....no more "what is the frequency?" questions.

Bob Gardner

And I'll add a recommendation to buy and study the NACO Aeronautical Chart User's Guide. While it's available as a PDF, don't print it yourself; it's cheap at $4.55.