Cirrus v Cessna 400?

Whats comical? That anyone has an opinion that disagrees? That I ask repeatedly if someone has time in a TTx and is ignored? I'm trying to contribute to a fair conversation, and I just get attitude. "Comical" "DBA". Let's be adults and pilots. We can agree to disagree and not be jerks. Just don't lie, and don't attack people...


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gsengle said:
More than an hour. My opinion, which I'm trying to withhold on this thread is just my opinion, and it is based on *far* more than my subjective flying experience.

But just curious how much TTx time do you have?


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Zero. But I'm not putting the TTx down. It doesn't fit my mission. Smaller useful load, less seats, no chute aren't subjective.
 
dennyleeb said:
Zero. But I'm not putting the TTx down. It doesn't fit my mission. Smaller useful load, less seats, no chute aren't subjective.
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Is a Cirrus really a 5-seater? Seems like a marketing ploy to me.
 
paflyer said:
Is a Cirrus really a 5-seater? Seems like a marketing ploy to me.
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bout as much as my V-tail is a 6 seater....even though it sez 6 seats on the TC.
N111FJ_Baggage.JPG
 
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Can you still buy the 350 version (NA)?
 
paflyer said:
Is a Cirrus really a 5-seater? Seems like a marketing ploy to me.
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Marketing ploy?

Yes. There are 3 seat belts in the back, three O2 ports, etc. I've had three people in the back.

You can't fit 3 linebackers back there, but it can and does work just fine.
 
dennyleeb said:
Not 5 adults. But my wife and I have 3 kids. So it's very real for us. No marketing needed.
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Mooney also offered at 3rd seat in back at one time but it was even to small for 3 kids. I'm sure they would still build one that way if you really wanted it on a new one.
 
dennyleeb said:
Not 5 adults. But my wife and I have 3 kids. So it's very real for us. No marketing needed.
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Yeah but it won't be a 5-seater for long in your case. What's your next step? SF50?

My PA28 is a "4 seater" but the only people being seated in back can weigh up 50 lbs.
 
paflyer said:
Yeah but it won't be a 5-seater for long in your case. What's your next step? SF50?

My PA28 is a "4 seater" but the only people being seated in back can weigh up 50 lbs.
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Would be awesome. But by the time my youngest gets big enough my oldest will be in college. So should be fine.
 
paflyer said:
Yeah but it won't be a 5-seater for long in your case
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Isn't that speculative? I thought we had to stick to facts in this thread. ;) Totally joking.... just being silly.

On the SR22T, there is no max weight specified for the back seat. Just fall within the useful load and within CG. There's 130 max allowable in baggage, which could affect CG / weight limits for the back.
 
citizen5000 said:
I have flown them and both are great planes. The TTx a bit more cramped in the cockpit but has a better panel IMHO. Both are side-sticks but the TTx has more 'feel' than the Cirrus which seems stiffer. The TTX has a separate prop control the Cirrus does not making the Cirrus a little simpler to operate.
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How did you like the touchscreen console between the seats? I haven't flown one, but I sat in one and I was wondering about the console placement. Basically, it means that every time you need to change frequency or do pretty much anything else with avionics, you need to spend some time heads down. And because it's touchscreen you can't do it by feel. Can be handful in turbulence when not flying on autopilot...

Cirrus is still more comfortable inside and has better ergonomics IMHO. You can see that they spent considerable amount of time polishing the UX. Also, overall fit and finish is better in Cirrus, but TTx is pretty nice too.

2017 Cessna TTx
IMG_1682.JPG

2017 Cirrus SR22T GTS G6:
IMG_1694.JPG
 
EugeneR said:
How did you like the touchscreen console between the seats?
Cirrus is still more comfortable inside and has better ergonomics IMHO. . Also, overall fit and finish is better in Cirrus, but TTx is pretty nice too.
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The Cirrus Perspective panel as you are showing is in about the same ergonomic position as the touch screens in the TTx so you have head down the same way working both. Radios/flight planning/A/C done in the interface (but the A/P is up on the panel versus on the console for the SR22T). The touch gives quicker entry with larger letters and numbers etc than the Perspective interface. Your hand spans the console to steady when touching in bumps and there is a bezel on the interface to anchor your hand.

The TTx has mixture, prop and vernier throttle up on the panel so you have to reach to manipulate them. The Cirrus has a more ergonomic combined throttle/prop control and your arm rests on the console as you manipulate the throttle and mixture control.

The Cirrus is roomier, I agree. The Cirrus specs don't detail how the seats are adjustable where as you pull them forward/back the seat rises/falls which anticipates a shorter/taller person both leg and seat height. And the 60/40 seat made for three (three sets of seat belts) though there are variables in people sizes that could affect comfort. Cirrus is famous for fit and finish true.

Here is a TTx test ride by AVWeb:
 
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citizen5000 said:
The Cirrus is roomier, I agree. The specs don't detail how the seats are adjustable where as you pull them forward/back the seat rises/falls which anticipates a shorter/taller person both leg and seat height.
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As far as I remember, the seat height is not adjustable in TTx, the seat just slides forward and back...
 
gsengle said:
Yep people have chosen both, Cirrus is winning in this comparison in the market. You think it's the better choice.

But what's helpful to the poster is comparing different attributes so he/she can weigh them and come to their own conclusion.

So there is no winner for the title of "best", it's ultimately subjective. Best in what way?


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Best value. This is the only thing that market determines. It also uniquely determines it exceptionally well. Ferrari 458 may be the best sports car out there, but that does't make it a "good buy" for 99.99% of drivers because it is a terrible value compared to something more pedestrian like a Miata. There are a lot of examples of "best" products that fail. Why? Because they do not offer good value. It is somewhat subjective, hence people do chose different planes or cars. In the end, however, if one product outsells another in a same category 15x1, there is no doubt which one is perceived to be best value...

McD $2 hamburger is definitely not better than Five Guy's $5 hamburger, but you can have a full hamburger meal at McD for under $5 and the "same" thing in Five Guys is $10+. McD is better value.
 
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FastEddieB said:
The fit and finish on my 2003 SR22 was nothing to write home about.

I'll stipulate (hope) that newer ones are better.
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Ive owned a G2 and a G3 and have flown every generation (G1, 2, 3, 5, 6) and can confirm major improvements in quality of materials, interior design elements and fit and finish over time. The G5s and G6s are very nice inside!
 
RudyP said:
Ive owned a G2 and a G3 and have flown every generation (G1, 2, 3, 5, 6) and can confirm major improvements in quality of materials, interior design elements and fit and finish over time. The G5s and G6s are very nice inside!
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Do newer Cirri fly substantially different from older generations. I know there have been incremental upgrades in avionics and the big useful load increase for the G5 but other than that, are they essentially the same airplane?

When looking at used Cirri there are quite a few early models that are reasonable.
 
Not very differently (other than SR20 -> SR22 -> SR22TN/T performance differences). Main change was G2->G3 where the aileron/rudder bungie interconnect went away. But even that isn't a major difference in feel (you can tell though).

Oh and autopilots are pretty different too. The 55X while competent isn't as good as the GF700 (2007/08+) and the 700 usually has yaw damper too.
 
RudyP said:
the 700 usually has yaw damper too.
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Yaw damper (optional), and GFC 700 with blue level button, ESP, Hypoxia check, and stall protection. ADS-B In/Out, Digital backups, new doors/key fob and GMA350c 3D audio were added in 2016. 2017 has the upgraded G1000 NXi.
 
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labbadabba said:
are they essentially the same airplane?

When looking at used Cirri there are quite a few early models that are reasonable.
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Performance is the same.

You can spend 4X more new vs used and you will fly the same speed.

Safety is mostly the same as well.

The chute is the same, except for the bigger chute in later models (which has minor pros (slower descent so less chance of injury) and minor cons (needs 100' more altitude to deploy, which matters some because a lot of deployments are at low altitudes.)

Avionics and airbags can vary.
 
NoHeat said:
You can spend 4X more new vs used and you will fly the same speed.
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There's used and there is used. There are 2 big cliffs on the used model prices:

a) Avadine to Garmin (late 2008 G3) -> All things being equal, it adds $100k
b) Useful load + 200lbs (G5 SR22) -> All things being equal, adds another $100k

When you're comparing new vs. used with the same useful load (thus the same mission) & same avionics, the prices are not that far apart. Maybe 30%. In some cases (tax scenarios) it makes more sense buying new over e.g. a used 2015 G5.
 
dennyleeb said:
Can you still buy the 350 version (NA)?
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Cessna stopped making them. There are substantial differences in in the airframe between the 350 and the 400, to continue making them came with more cost than you would think at first glance. I think its a loss.
 
There's a flight school/rental place in the DC suburbs/exburbs that has both Cirrus and a 400 on the line. The 400 rents for 395 per hour. Try 'em both.
 
A guy with a 2002 SR22 Cirrus just rented one of the empty hangars across from me. I walked over to chat a bit and he told me he has had the plane since new. Its #152. He says he's nearing TBO on his third engine! He has a construction business and flys about 10 hours per week. Except for the aging interior and some of the headliner coming off the plane looks nearly new.
 
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