Cirrus Transition - fiscally logical?

gkainz

gkainz

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Greg Kainz
So, the club I'm hanging out at now has 3 Cirrus ... Cirruses ... Cirri? An SR-20 Cirrus /G2, an SR-20 Cirrus /GTS/G2, and an SR-22 Cirrus /GTS/G2 that require "Completion of the SR 20 Cirrus Transition Training Program with a CSIP" for rental. Rates for the 20 are about $50-$60/hr more than the C-172s available.

Conversation with one of the instructors reveal that the program is typically a minimum of 10 hrs; a self-study course, 2 hrs powered, on the ground, cockpit familiarization session, and 8 hrs of dual.

I'm weighing the pros and cons of additional cash outlay for "go faster in a modern cockpit" vs "keep flying what I'm currently checked out in"

thoughts?
 
totally depends on what your typical flight would be after you got checked out. if you will just be doing the same old thing as you have been doing, it would likely not be worth the extra dough.
 
my typical XC is 500nm R/T once a month or so.

C-172 is 4 hrs at $~100/hr for $400 or
SR-20 is 3.3 hrs (they're advertising 150kts - realistic?) at $150 is $500

So, doesn't fiscally make sense even without the transition training ... but sure looks cool inside!
 
My question would be: Would the Cirrus open up doors to destinations you wouldn't otherwise attempt in a 172? Some things are hard to quantify.
 
probably not in the forseeable future ... my wife will NOT fly GA - tried it a couple of times and terrified her. She's a white-knuckle commercial flyer and just can't handle small planes, for whatever reason. My flying is simply recreational, and my XC are to visit my parents, who's health is declining. So, if I fly myself, I go alone.
 
Then it isn't worth it. If the Cirrus would put the color of your wife's knuckles back (look at how nice inside the airplane is, it even has cupholders! If course it's safe, did I mention it has a parachute?) it might be worth it. If the mission changes such that it saves you real time then it would also be worth it.
 
gkainz said:
my typical XC is 500nm R/T once a month or so.

C-172 is 4 hrs at $~100/hr for $400 or
SR-20 is 3.3 hrs (they're advertising 150kts - realistic?) at $150 is $500

So, doesn't fiscally make sense even without the transition training ... but sure looks cool inside!
Click to expand...


Hmmm...

...a friend of mine (yes, a physician) was bragging to me about how his SR-20 was as fast as a Bonanza. Maybe, an SR-22...

...when I did a Flightaware check of SR-20 aircraft in flight, I find three- and of these three, all three have filed estimated speeds which are substantially higher than that which they are actually getting. Maybe all three have bad wind- but did the wind change that much between flight plan filing and takeoff, or are we just drinking bad Kool-Aid?

140 / 125
150 / 129
140 / 130

SR-20 is an efficient airframe, but I would not rely upon 150 knots. Maybe I am full of.... it. Happens.
 
While it's all well and good to think about fiscal logic...would you mind taking the time to 'splain to me what part of personal general aviation is based on saving money?

I mean, the cheapest thing for me to do is sell the aircraft and take up knitting or something. I do it for fun, not to save money.

If the Cirrus has a higher fun factor then by all means go for it. Just think, you can go looking for 30 kt crosswinds to land in. Try that in the ole' Skyhawk!
 
Its the fun factor. I'm taking the Cirrus transition training now. I love the airplane, I'm challenged by 'the system' and the check book is in agony. It was not an economic decision, it was about having fun learning to fly a new airplane. If you can't enjoy the journey, don't take the trip.
 
I would do it just for the training and experience, if funds were not really tight.
One of my fears when it comes to aviating is: 10 years from now thinking "dang I had a chance to (fly this/get that rating), but didn't"!
("and now, I can't")
 
Many thanks for the "what the HECK are you THINKING?" posts ... and e-slaps to bring back my aviation non-logic!

I was contemplating a sea plane rating last year "just for fun" (circumstances beyond my control put that on severe back burner) but that rating has much less utility for me here in CO than glass cockpit, Cirrus training would ... ok, the thought's still percolating around my little pea brain again. :)
 
Does it really take 10 hours to learn a 2-tube EFIS?
 
deltafox said:
Its the fun factor. I'm taking the Cirrus transition training now. I love the airplane, I'm challenged by 'the system' and the check book is in agony. It was not an economic decision, it was about having fun learning to fly a new airplane. If you can't enjoy the journey, don't take the trip.
Click to expand...

Well spoken! Frankly, anything aviation is expensive and we all have a short time on terra firma. Hell, go fly the Cirrus and the grin from ear to ear will be priceless!
:rofl:

Ask yourself this "If not now, when?"
 
wabower said:
Does it really take 10 hours to learn a 2-tube EFIS?
Click to expand...

That's two hours to learn the airspeed tape is on the left and the altitude tape is on the right. And eight hours instruction in how to pull the big red handle!

You see, CD has noted a problem with timely 'chute deployment and has instituted technological fixes and training standards in an attempt to rectify the situation. The tech fix is the blue button. Recovery from unusual attitudes or circumstances is now a two step process: 1) push the blue button 2) if that didn't work pull the red handle.

Obviously such a complicated procedure requires ardous and rigorous training and I'm sure that you now understand the ten hour training requirement.
 
spike - FWIW I usually file my planned true airspeed, not expected groundspeed. could easily be the case in the examples you posted.
 
I had the chance to spend 3 hours in an SR20 Sunday, it was a blast! (added flight info to my blog) We have three potential pilots (counting me) that want in on a Cirrus partnership. It's in the beginning stages right now and taking baby steps but I'm hooked. I'm going to look into the transition training and get started as soon as I take the instrument checkride (next few weeks). I'm still knocking off the rust from my three months off after hip surgery.

I would say go for it if finances allow. Any chance to fly something new or different is worth it to me, but that's just my opinion. Heck the speed increase, better ride and great IFR platform seal the deal.
 
As a newly minted CSIP, the transition training is a well thought out curriculum in my opinion. It helps if the student has prior G1000 experience or GNS430/530 experience. The PFD is not difficult to master, but there is a lot of information that goes beyond the airspeed and altitude tape that should be learned, particularly with SVT. The course is scenario based and most of the material is integrated into short cross country flights. There are a lot of failure modes to expose the newbie pilot to and the autopilot operation also has a lot of features to learn. One example of many is how to recognize and recover from an autopilot induced stall. One still does the full stall series and the various types of takeoff and landings, full flap, no flap, crosswind, soft field, short field. What seems to take the most time is learning how to use the MFD functions and the FMS functions in particular. If you are transitioning to a Turbo, there are more subjects as well including LOP operations.
 
Thanks for the explanation, John. That's about what the CSIP I talked to yesterday told me on the phone, which I would not have been able to recall enough to write down as nicely as you did. So, "yup! What he said!" :)
 
tonycondon said:
spike - FWIW I usually file my planned true airspeed, not expected groundspeed. could easily be the case in the examples you posted.
Click to expand...

Don't we all?

Point is, they all were like that, regardless of the direction of travel.

Or, does the wind always find the Cirri?
 
SCCutler said:
Don't we all?

Point is, they all were like that, regardless of the direction of travel.

Or, does the wind always find the Cirri?
Click to expand...

I found one filed for 145 getting 151 up at 12,000 feet enroute from Oakland to Hillsboro...

Remember that, whatever your true airspeed or direction of flight, on average your groundspeed will be less than your true airspeed. :yes:
 
I went to go rent an SR22 locally... they said I needed 10 hours with their instructor? I looked at them again and said What? I have More then 300 Hours and more then 5 Ocean crossings in SR22's! They gave me a blank look!!! I told them the cirrus factory check out was about 1 hour that was with no time in type why is yours 10? The instructor that reviewed my log book said aloud because it's not over gross... hahahaha


The following week or so later I took this to Hawaii!!!

l_be277bf31b938c65c4fb39d6402bfeda.jpg
 
Well, I changed my mind - not doing the Cirrus training; I bought a Bonanza instead.

And a Saratoga.

And an Archer.

Ok, 1/45 share in each, to be technically correct. I joined an ownership club that owns these 3 aircraft last night.
 
Congrats! Sounds like a good mix of planes. How do you guys handle currency in the individual models?
 
wabower said:
In a money clip, doh. How do you handle it in a 210?
Click to expand...

We have 60 days on the 210, 90 days on planes "before" it. They go 152 - 172 - 182 - T182 - T210, and each type covers all those before it. Not sure exactly where the Champ or Archer fit in, or the order of the helicopters. The G1000 has a separate currency requirement.

And if you're trying to be funny, you forgot the smilie:fingerwag:! See definition 1c from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/currency:

1 a : circulation as a medium of exchange b : general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency> c : the quality or state of being current : currentness
 
Just yanking.;)

Did they figure out the gear-door problem?


gprellwitz said:
We have 60 days on the 210, 90 days on planes "before" it. They go 152 - 172 - 182 - T182 - T210, and each type covers all those before it. Not sure exactly where the Champ or Archer fit in, or the order of the helicopters. The G1000 has a separate currency requirement.

And if you're trying to be funny, you forgot the smilie:fingerwag:! See definition 1c from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/currency:

1 a : circulation as a medium of exchange b : general use, acceptance, or prevalence <a story gaining currency> c : the quality or state of being current : currentness
Click to expand...
 
photos of the planes here http://www.tenhiflyers.com/Aircraft.htm

Last night the club voted to replace the Archer with a Dakota. Since I've got time in a Dakota, that was fine with me.

Proficiency/currency is
A . RECENT EXPERIENCE:
90 DAY RULE: Fly at least .75 hours with 3 landings within 90 days prior to each make and
model flight, or: complete a club proficiency check within 30 days prior to flight in that aircraft.
Complex currency maintains fixed gear currency for twelve months. If fixed gear currency lapses, a
proficiency check in that aircraft is required.
12 MONTH RULE: Complete a club proficiency check within 12 months prior to each make and model
flight. A complex checkride satisfies the requirement for fixed gear. Any checkride can be completed in
conjunction with a Flight Review or training for any other purpose.
 
Your a dirty dog Greg! Looks great! But, I'd rather have a cherokee6/300 than the saratoga. But then again, why not a matrix, or heck, go king air. Doesn't hurt to dream. I'm look'n for a cherokee 6/300 so I can haul the family, plenty of brisket/pulled pork/ribs/beer to...:dunno:anywhere.:D

Nice planes Greg!:thumbsup:

BTW, dove season is come'n up, don't forget pix.:thumbsup:
 
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