Cirrus steps up to the plate

I have no issue and commend a manufacturer for training the pilot community.

That said, the accident rate made it a necessity for their business. I question a sales and marketing strategy that seemed to get some pilots in over their head as well. Same could be said of Beechcraft years ago... and probably others. Training and safety is a PIC responsibility, and if you are willing to seek it out, I believe most high performance types have excellent training available as well, often through type clubs. Someone should absolutely not need to be told that they need such transition and recurrent training, if we are making good pilots in the first place.


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I have nothing against Cirrus. They are cool machines. While I think any training is a good thing, and I'm glad Cirrus is providing some to it's customers, they know their planes have or are at least gaining a reputation of being somewhat crash prone. So it's partly about safety, and partly about improving perception before they become the new fork tailed doctor killer. Don't blame them a bit. Good for them.
 
The GA accident rate would probably go down if we did more recurrent training besides a BFR. This is a good thing.
 
My mind is blown. A company offers free training---even if you're buying a used product on which they make no money---and they get roasted by pilots. What a joke this place can be sometimes. Transition training is one of the best things you can do as a pilot. I agree with the OP: Cirrus is stepping up here. Sure, it makes good business sense, too (Go Capitalism!) but how often do you see companies actually do anything that costs them money in the short term---especially in aviation?

The video was typical of modern, reasonably well-produced videos. The whole "finish each others sentences" thing is hokey, but that's the current trend in video production (thank Hollywood PACs for that). The questions aren't stupid. Ideal fuel flows are a good question! Sure, the book will say one thing, but it's nice to have someone with experience talking about what actually is best in terms of engine longevity, LOP vs. ROP, etc. In my experience, engine management is generally poorly understood by pilots, especially those stepping up to high-performance aircraft after flying nothing but 172s at Rental Power ("uh yeah so that red knob is for shutting down the engine and doing something at cruise that the angry old man who owns the flight school told me never to touch in flight"). Why is the grass strip question dumb? There are guys I know with Aerostars who land on 2,500' grass strips. I don't. There's no right or wrong answer there, but having someone to ask those questions is great, especially when manufacturers don't want to provide that kind of information out of liability fear or because, frankly, "it depends." Maybe in another thousand hours, I'll feel comfortable on a <3k' grass strip in my plane. Sure is nice as a new owner to talk to someone about that stuff. Same thing with oil changes and a ton of other things that come up for first-time owners. A lot of that maintenance stuff isn't covered in any training.

Cirrus is practically the only company keeping light single-engine GA alive at this point. I'll concede that some of their marketing can be irresponsible, but they do actually seem like a company that tries to take care of their owners and do the right thing. Compare this with Diamond, who left their early DA-42 owners to roast (and they're still at it, even with their new engines!) or pieces of garbage like Textron who will sell you a freshly overhauled engine with off-spec conrods and then make you pay to fix it. As far as I know, Textron will happily toss a 100hr PPL the keys to a new TTx as long as the check clears.

/rant
 
My mind is blown. A company offers free training---even if you're buying a used product on which they make no money---and they get roasted by pilots. What a joke this place can be sometimes. Transition training is one of the best things you can do as a pilot. I agree with the OP: Cirrus is stepping up here. Sure, it makes good business sense, too (Go Capitalism!) but how often do you see companies actually do anything that costs them money in the short term---especially in aviation?

The video was typical of modern, reasonably well-produced videos. The whole "finish each others sentences" thing is hokey, but that's the current trend in video production (thank Hollywood PACs for that). The questions aren't stupid. Ideal fuel flows are a good question! Sure, the book will say one thing, but it's nice to have someone with experience talking about what actually is best in terms of engine longevity, LOP vs. ROP, etc. In my experience, engine management is generally poorly understood by pilots, especially those stepping up to high-performance aircraft after flying nothing but 172s at Rental Power ("uh yeah so that red knob is for shutting down the engine and doing something at cruise that the angry old man who owns the flight school told me never to touch in flight"). Why is the grass strip question dumb? There are guys I know with Aerostars who land on 2,500' grass strips. I don't. There's no right or wrong answer there, but having someone to ask those questions is great, especially when manufacturers don't want to provide that kind of information out of liability fear or because, frankly, "it depends." Maybe in another thousand hours, I'll feel comfortable on a <3k' grass strip in my plane. Sure is nice as a new owner to talk to someone about that stuff. Same thing with oil changes and a ton of other things that come up for first-time owners. A lot of that maintenance stuff isn't covered in any training.

Cirrus is practically the only company keeping light single-engine GA alive at this point. I'll concede that some of their marketing can be irresponsible, but they do actually seem like a company that tries to take care of their owners and do the right thing. Compare this with Diamond, who left their early DA-42 owners to roast (and they're still at it, even with their new engines!) or pieces of garbage like Textron who will sell you a freshly overhauled engine with off-spec conrods and then make you pay to fix it. As far as I know, Textron will happily toss a 100hr PPL the keys to a new TTx as long as the check clears.

/rant
Clearly you didn't read the OP...YOU DONT HAVE ANY BUSINESS READING THIS THREAD!
For your Cirrus haters.
:D:p:D
 
Don't take it personally Starglider. Cirrus is the butt of many jokes here for a number of reasons but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of people on this forum would have one if they could afford one, myself included. I looked at the guy in that video and it reminded me of so many commercials with people living the "good life," or rather what the marketing department would want people to perceive as such. The guy in the Mercedes and the sweater represents a small percentage of GA pilots. I drive up in my 11 year old truck in shorts and a tee shirt and pre-flight my 47 year old Cherokee. I'm not trying to impress anyone.

The difference is that Cirrus and their marketing IS trying to impress people and they do it well. It's just funny to people who live in the real world, that's all. Nobody "hates" Cirrus or Cirrus owners.
 
Pros:

RE being defensive
The opening did strike me a little bit coming out "guns blazing" .. but there are a couple trigger words on POA and "Cirrus" is one of them, so I can't really blame the guy for showing up with his sword drawn
Exactly. When I bought my Cirrus there were some er not so nice people that gave me all sort of **** about Cirrus i.e. You're not a true pilot, how do you land...pull chute ya da ya da. So I really haven't posted much for two years. Preferred to spend time on other boards. FWIW I'm a CPA who has developed a specialty in aviation so those who have me grief lost out. But this program was too good not to post.
 
Exactly. When I bought my Cirrus there were some er not so nice people that gave me all sort of **** about Cirrus i.e. You're not a true pilot, how do you land...pull chute ya da ya da. So I really haven't posted much for two years. Preferred to spend time on other boards. FWIW I'm a CPA who has developed a specialty in aviation so those who have me grief lost out. But this program was too good not to post.

It's a good program. It was worth posting. My point was by coming our all defensive, you kinda reinforce exactly what you decry...


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Nobody "hates" Cirrus or Cirrus owners.
Try buying one and be all excited about it on this board. Then see if your opinion changes. All other boards I posted to when I bought it were 100% supportive. I encountered a few asshats that turned me off of this board. Hence my first comment.
 
Try buying one and be all excited about it on this board. Then see if your opinion changes. All other boards I posted to when I bought it were 100% supportive. I encountered a few asshats that turned me off of this board. Hence my first comment.
It was your second comment that I found funniest...
We take training seriously.
Apparently Cirrus buyers don't take training seriously, if the factory has to provide it for free.
 
I have never had anyone personally give me any attitude or anything about flying a Cirrus.
Just on the boards but I have that coming.

Also helps that I am more likely to be flying in sandals w/ socks and a shirt that says I **** on the first date than a purple sweater vest and some sort of meaningful watch.

I do frequently get people telling me myths about the plane.
My favorite was about 2 months ago a strapping young ramp dude says "Beautiful plane. Don't stall it though. I hear you can't recover."

I just go "yup". I didn't have the energy.
 
Keep in mind that it was your second comment that I found funniest...

Apparently Cirrus buyers don't take training seriously, if the factory has to provide it for free.
Some don't unfortunately. I had to teach a DPE with tens of 1,000s of hours about having to sump under the cowl or correct speeds at different points in the pattern. Many policies will require 5 hour transition training; far too little imo for a plane like this. I spoke to some folks at Cirrus - they want to encourage proper training. And imo if it helps with marketing and improving the reputation what's the harm?
 
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I have never had anyone personally give me any attitude or anything about flying a Cirrus.
Just on the boards but I have that coming.

Also helps that I am more likely to be flying in sandals w/ socks and a shirt that says I **** on the first date than a purple sweater vest and some sort of meaningful watch.

I do frequently get people telling me myths about the plane.
My favorite was about 2 months ago a strapping young ramp dude says "Beautiful plane. Don't stall it though. I hear you can't recover."

I just go "yup". I didn't have the energy.
Ya Bryan but you gave me encouragement not to listen to the asshats a couple of years ago if you remember.
 
Try buying one and be all excited about it on this board. Then see if your opinion changes. All other boards I posted to when I bought it were 100% supportive. I encountered a few asshats that turned me off of this board. Hence my first comment.

Just because not everyone shares your excitement is no reason to leave. Inversely nobody shares your pain when your annual turns South. I think you expect too much from anonymous people on a public forum. Lighten up man.

But...I'll try buying one.......(opens wallet, moths fly out) um...nope, still not happenin' for me. ;)
 
Just because not everyone shares your excitement is no reason to leave. Inversely nobody shares your pain when your annual turns South. I think you expect too much from anonymous people on a public forum. Lighten up man.

But...I'll try buying one.......(opens wallet, moths fly out) um...nope, still not happenin' for me. ;)
Keep an eye on those moths...they're probably headed for your shirts! :D
 
Try buying one and be all excited about it on this board. Then see if your opinion changes. All other boards I posted to when I bought it were 100% supportive. I encountered a few asshats that turned me off of this board. Hence my first comment.

The ding on Cirrus owners is they aren't well informed. I have no problem with someone choosing a Cirrus. We all have different purchase criteria.

But being a pilot is about being informed. What stuns me is a pilot that buys a six figure airplane without even knowing and flying all the types in the price range that fit the mission. Before I went M20, I'd flown an Arrow, a Bonanza and a Cirrus in addition to the Mooney. Read lots about the TTx and sat in one, and thought about Commanders and Socatas too. Already had Cessna time.

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but if a pilot sees Cirrus marketing, and then just goes Cirrus because it's slick, without doing the homework, flying other types, many of us think that's like a flight without a weather briefing... that's kind of the dig. And I've met a couple of pilots that went from training to purchase without trying multiple types, and I don't get it. (I know that's not all of ya or even most of ya)


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Ya Bryan but you gave me encouragement not to listen to the asshats a couple of years ago if you remember.

I remember now... I am not sure why but I recall you getting into your plane and getting a ton of flak on here.
Even before you pulled the trigger and were considering it there was a lot of piling on.

Never listen to asshats. I read a meme somewhere that said something like. There will always be some people you **** off.
Those aren't your people. I don't like memes but I like that one.
 
Just because not everyone shares your excitement is no reason to leave. Inversely nobody shares your pain when your annual turns South. I think you expect too much from anonymous people on a public forum. Lighten up man.

But...I'll try buying one.......(opens wallet, moths fly out) um...nope, still not happenin' for me. ;)
These forums imo are for learning, sharing experiences and having fun. If you're not having fun why bother? Much rather go some where else where you get all three? Agree?
 
I have never had anyone personally give me any attitude or anything about flying a Cirrus.
Just on the boards but I have that coming.

Also helps that I am more likely to be flying in sandals w/ socks and a shirt that says I **** on the first date than a purple sweater vest and some sort of meaningful watch.

I do frequently get people telling me myths about the plane.
My favorite was about 2 months ago a strapping young ramp dude says "Beautiful plane. Don't stall it though. I hear you can't recover."

I just go "yup". I didn't have the energy.
You swallow on the first date? Wow dude.
 
These forums imo are for learning, sharing experiences and having fun. If you're not having fun why bother? Much rather go some where else where you get all three? Agree?

Dude you gotta just sort through the BS here...I do it all the time with some of the curmudgeons on here
 
The ding on Cirrus owners is they aren't well informed. I have no problem with someone choosing a Cirrus. We all have different purchase criteria.

But being a pilot is about being informed. What stuns me is a pilot that buys a six figure airplane without even knowing and flying all the types in the price range that fit the mission. Before I went M20, I'd flown an Arrow, a Bonanza and a Cirrus in addition to the Mooney. Read lots about the TTx and sat in one, and thought about Commanders and Socatas too. Already had Cessna time.

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but if a pilot sees Cirrus marketing, and then just goes Cirrus because it's slick, without doing the homework, flying other types, many of us think that's like a flight without a weather briefing... that's kind of the dig. And I've met a couple of pilots that went from training to purchase without trying multiple types, and I don't get it. (I know that's not all of ya or even most of ya)


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I looked at Companches, F33s, Dakotas and others. I loved the Cirrus SR22 the best - speed, useful load, community, training, parachute, comfort for my body size, etc. For me it was the whole deal. I frankly thought he marketing was over the top. But you go to their events, and partake in the training and meet great people that's what it's about for me.
 
Wow - I'm surprised by the negativity (maybe I shouldn't be...)

How can anyone view this as anything but a good thing? Especially when we know that the pilot is consistently the most likely cause for accidents rather than the machine?

And remember guys, that Cirrus is providing this service for anyone buying any used Cirrus (not just their certified used planes) and will pay third party CFIs for 3 days of training despite not getting a single $ from many of these used transactions. If someone on this board were to buy my plane from me tomorrow, Cirrus wouldn't get a dime of your money but they'd happily pay for 3 days of training for you. No matter how you slice it, that is a good thing and will lead to safety improvements which we should all be in favor of. And this is especially the case since many of the recent Cirrus fatals have been in recently bought used SR22s where the new owners did minimal transition training and got behind the airplane.

This^.

I will make fun of Cirrus owners with the best of them, but it's in good fun. If I'm being serious, there is nothing but upside to this program. It's a smart business move by Cirrus as well, since any incident with a Cirrus (used or new) gets associated with the company, even if it's the fault of a low-hour pilot buying a used one, then doing the bare minimum (or worse, pencil-whipped) transition training.

Before anyone accuses me of being in Cirrus' pocket, let's be clear. I own a 182 (and old one with an old panel). Short of a miracle (or advance notice of the powerball numbers), I will never own a Cirrus. But I am more than willing to give credit where credit is due.
 
The ding on Cirrus owners is they aren't well informed. I have no problem with someone choosing a Cirrus. We all have different purchase criteria.

But being a pilot is about being informed. What stuns me is a pilot that buys a six figure airplane without even knowing and flying all the types in the price range that fit the mission. Before I went M20, I'd flown an Arrow, a Bonanza and a Cirrus in addition to the Mooney. Read lots about the TTx and sat in one, and thought about Commanders and Socatas too. Already had Cessna time.

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but if a pilot sees Cirrus marketing, and then just goes Cirrus because it's slick, without doing the homework, flying other types, many of us think that's like a flight without a weather briefing... that's kind of the dig. And I've met a couple of pilots that went from training to purchase without trying multiple types, and I don't get it. (I know that's not all of ya or even most of ya)


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To be fair Cirrus is a plane w/o my name on the title but the decision process for us was joint and had nothing to do with marketing.
We (Dad and I) flew several planes. We had a TB9 so the 20 was the next logical choice. We flew it and looked at 3 or 4 of them.
We flew Pipers, a commander, Dad even flew a skymaster (I missed that one). I sat in a Mooney and that was all I needed (not a dig, just reality). We put an excel spreadsheet together w/ a bunch of planes on it and went down the list of pros and cons.

A friend of a friend that knew we were looking to get into something a little less of a trainer said "lets go for a spin in my Cirrus"
Dad and I got in it and couldn't find a thing wrong with it. Ergonomic, Roomy, Useful load, 2 doors, no retracts, no smacking your head on the ceiling like in the TBs, and the list goes on.

We landed and talked through our list and I said "The only thing missing is a canopy that can be opened in flight but you can't have everything". That's not true but I feel like a lot of the marketing talk is thrown around almost as if to suggest that Cirrus somehow tricks people into buying their planes through fancy smoke and mirrors or because the wives will love the chutes.

Maybe that is true for some subset of the population. I know a number of pilots that fly these things and I only know one that repeatedly says "I just love knowing I have that extra out if things go south" I hear many times more chute and marketing talk from non Cirrus pilots than I do from those that fly them. It would be like me saying "Blue Knob" every time I meet a 182 pilot. He never thinks about that knob but I look at it like it is from a space ship because it's not a part of my flying.

Anyway, the marketing and chute thing could really be given a rest. I suspect most pilots buy them because you get a very simplified machine capable of flying like more complicated planes and there is no denying it is a luxurious experience which is important to a certain population.

So much trying to justify why they sell a lot of planes. They are, to many, a remarkable aircraft.
But hey, there are Nickelback fans too so who knows why people choose what they choose?
 
These forums imo are for learning, sharing experiences and having fun. If you're not having fun why bother? Much rather go some where else where you get all three? Agree?


I agree. However there are a lot of people who do not have an on deck circle for their thoughts and will say whatever comes to mind behind the anonymity of a forum. You have to have a thick skin on this and every other forum I've been a member of. People say things on forums that they never would say to another person's face. The video posted just tees up comments from people. Can I land on a grass strip? How much oil do I add? Really? I think the asshats other than the ones who take pot shots at others behind their computer screen of course, are the people who want to fly, have enough money to afford almost a million dollar aircraft and don't take the time to understand how it works. If I made enough money to toss my keys to the mechanic and tell him to give me a call when the annual is done, I would STILL want to know how the thing works and what to do when it doesn't. I'm not saying that you're that guy either.

Having said that, if you're not having fun then come on over to mine, Briany, Cajunchick (sorry Des), IRPhoenix, CC268 and eman's table. I'll buy the first round. ;)
 
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I dunno, when mulligan got his cirrus I think people were pretty stoked for him. Then there's that other dude who uses videos to poke fun at the cirrus stereotypes. But I guess somehow u got pretty butt hurt. I don't recall what happened but I guess everyone handles it differently.
 
With the state of General Aviation today, I'm surprised people aren't welcoming new Cirrus drivers with open arms.
 
Wow - I'm surprised by the negativity (maybe I shouldn't be...)

How can anyone view this as anything but a good thing? Especially when we know that the pilot is consistently the most likely cause for accidents rather than the machine?

And remember guys, that Cirrus is providing this service for anyone buying any used Cirrus (not just their certified used planes) and will pay third party CFIs for 3 days of training despite not getting a single $ from many of these used transactions. If someone on this board were to buy my plane from me tomorrow, Cirrus wouldn't get a dime of your money but they'd happily pay for 3 days of training for you. No matter how you slice it, that is a good thing and will lead to safety improvements which we should all be in favor of. And this is especially the case since many of the recent Cirrus fatals have been in recently bought used SR22s where the new owners did minimal transition training and got behind the airplane.
The liability cost savings alone will more Han make up the difference.
 
Ya know, I've never figured out the Nickleback-hate thing. The drummer is a pilot and I like their music. Is it because they're Canadian?
 
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