Cirrus SR22

[jesse]

Funny thing:

Give me a narrow runway, i land in the middle.

Give me huge, jetport runway, and I am more often than not a little left of center (though less than I used to be).

Go figger.

I always had this problem. It cames down to me thinking about it on a narrow runway and knowing that if I'm off it'll be ugly.

The way I fixed this was if I landed off centerline I would taxi back, takeoff, and land again on the centerline. After doing this a few times I just don't have the problem anymore. It's something that I'm always aware of.

 

[tonycondon]

Yes, the range is wide. It's not likely I'd vary that far but it is a general rule and that's what the DE is looking at for me to base my judgment on. The DE used an IAS of 90 knots. That gave a resulting altitude of 318 feet. Whoever wants to go up against a DE during a checkride, let them knock themselves out. But, I wouldn't plan on walking away from that event with a new ticket.

i would worry a little more about following regulations and safety of flight over pleasing the DE. Im really confused by your posts. #1 says you wont go in wind that *could* give you an altitude of 500 AGL, but now you say you will go to 400 if the DE says so? who made him god? If you stay safe and follow regs on a checkride, the DE really doesnt have much to bust you on does he?

Silos and chicken barns rest on top of higher hills as do homes, towers, etc. Our practice area to the north and partly east is quite varied. Just about any direction stretching out from the lake will start to rise and all the higher terrain is taken advantage of. A bit further north, we have mountains or molehills as I call them. But, they still stick up in the way. To the east is under feeder routes down to as low as 5,000. Ya go south very far and there is that Class B issue as well as longer feeds into PDK.

do your turns around the chicken barns on the tops of the hills then. it is an AGL manuever, so thatll put you well above the houses and chicken barns, with even more room above the valleys.

Regarding simulated emergency landings, I wrote "usually." I've gone down to 200 a few times. The FSDO examiner let me descend to only 500 on my 709 ride. More recent practice attempts have been to 300 or 400. I'm depending on these guys to write a temporary ticket so I'm going to play by their rules. Given the fact they established these rules with good intent, I'm in no position to tell them they are wrong.

No doubt, actual off-field landings helps gain experience and proficiency. I've never done one and I hope to change that this year. Meanwhile, I have to "appease" those capable of putting me closer to that goal among many others.

im glad for you and your future passengers sake that you will be taking good training in this area.

Did you pass your checkride today?

 

[Richard]

How much of it is Cirrus selling to type A personalities who expect to be able to meet (or exceed) scheduled airline service regardless of weather? That is the real difference between an SR-22 and a 172. Most 172's are used as burger getters, while a lot of SR-22 class planes are bought for conducting business quickly.

Interesting point, Bill. Two things come to mind as I consider your words; 1) get thereitis, two) does Cirrus marketing strategy encourage choosing the wrong plane for the mission? (That assumes the buyer is not as well educated to what the right plane would be.)

 

[KennyFlys]

i would worry a little more about following regulations and safety of flight over pleasing the DE. I'm really confused by your posts. #1 says you wont go in wind that *could* give you an altitude of 500 AGL, but now you say you will go to 400 if the DE says so? who made him god? If you stay safe and follow regs on a checkride, the DE really doesn't have much to bust you on does he?

I didn't word that correctly. I've had practice attempts to lower altitudes with a CFI or on my own. But, I've never gone lower than 500 with an examiner. On the 709 ride, he specifically stated upon pulling power to recover at 500. I can't recall what happen on my PPL ride. That was a "few" years ago. As I said, it's a judgment call. I pick up what I can from him while reviewing what maneuvers he'll want to see. All indications were he wanted to maintain a fairly safe altitude. I'm all for that. Even in less wind, I'd still rather stay around the 800 foot level on the low side. Some of the terrain in that area varies just too much and you don't have a great view to right side while steeply banked to left.

do your turns around the chicken barns on the tops of the hills then. it is an AGL maneuver, so that'll put you well above the houses and chicken barns, with even more room above the valleys.

LOL You don't use chicken barns around here. We have chicken barns like Kansas has wheat fields. Gainesville and North Georgia is the chicken capital of the East Coast. Usually, my points are a home or other building on top of a higher point (Less usuable in warmer months). Occasionally, I'll luck out and get lined up to use a point of land sticking out into the lake for one and an island on the lake. We don't have valleys; just wide areas with trees turning to ravines headed toward the lake. Potential landing fields are scattered but relatively small. Often, a road is the better choice if you get a good straight stretch. The divided highways built in the last decade make good locations and have been used many times the last few years.

Did you pass your checkride today?

We never got off the ground. We went through preflight, on to run-up and the plug was fouled again. It's the same plug on the same cylinder every time. It was replaced about fifteen hours back but it still happens. The other plug on that cylinder is fine. Someone was suggesting a timing problem. I'm wondering about a spark problem off the magneto for that specific plug. I'm scheduled again for Wednesday afternoon.

 

[jesse]

We never got off the ground. We went through preflight, on to run-up and the plug was fouled again. It's the same plug on the same cylinder every time. It was replaced about fifteen hours back but it still happens. The other plug on that cylinder is fine. Someone was suggesting a timing problem. I'm wondering about a spark problem off the magneto for that specific plug. I'm scheduled again for Wednesday afternoon.

Have you ever considered that all of your check ride delays might just be a higher power trying to tell you something?

 

[tonycondon]

I didn't word that correctly. I've had practice attempts to lower altitudes with a CFI or on my own. But, I've never gone lower than 500 with an examiner. On the 709 ride, he specifically stated upon pulling power to recover at 500. I can't recall what happen on my PPL ride. That was a "few" years ago. As I said, it's a judgment call. I pick up what I can from him while reviewing what maneuvers he'll want to see. All indications were he wanted to maintain a fairly safe altitude. I'm all for that. Even in less wind, I'd still rather stay around the 800 foot level on the low side. Some of the terrain in that area varies just too much and you don't have a great view to right side while steeply banked to left.

this part of the discussion was aimed at eights on pylons, not emergency landings. please reread.

LOL You don't use chicken barns around here. We have chicken barns like Kansas has wheat fields. Gainesville and North Georgia is the chicken capital of the East Coast. Usually, my points are a home or other building on top of a higher point (Less usuable in warmer months). Occasionally, I'll luck out and get lined up to use a point of land sticking out into the lake for one and an island on the lake. We don't have valleys; just wide areas with trees turning to ravines headed toward the lake. Potential landing fields are scattered but relatively small. Often, a road is the better choice if you get a good straight stretch. The divided highways built in the last decade make good locations and have been used many times the last few years.

well im glad you have something on high ground to do your turns around.

We never got off the ground. We went through preflight, on to run-up and the plug was fouled again. It's the same plug on the same cylinder every time. It was replaced about fifteen hours back but it still happens. The other plug on that cylinder is fine. Someone was suggesting a timing problem. I'm wondering about a spark problem off the magneto for that specific plug. I'm scheduled again for Wednesday afternoon.

seems to be a recurring theme. good luck next time

 

[KennyFlys]

Have you ever considered that all of your check ride delays might just be a higher power trying to tell you something?

Yes, ignore apparent idiots on a message board and follow the advice of numerous, local CFII's at my disposal along with a couple DPE's followed by the FSDO examiners who will do any check rides beyond commercial.

Sorry, but I'm starting to get a little ****ed off that my attempt to handle matters in a safe manner is met with nothing but revolt and the concept that the PTS is nothing but BS. This is precisely why I didn't go into the chat room for a period of time.

 

[jesse]

Sorry, but I'm starting to get a little ****ed off that my attempt to handle matters in a safe manner is met with nothing but revolt and the concept that the PTS is nothing but BS. This is precisely why I didn't go into the chat room for a period of time.

The problem is increasing the margin of safety to the point to where you aren't safe. Not only that you also apply your extreme safety measures on the operations of other pilots and have the balls to say they aren't safe.

Only so long will someone listen to you telling them how unsafe they are before they respond and question your words of wisdom.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Best of luck in your eventual passing of the check ride.
A pilot may not be much anything if not persistant!

I didn't word that correctly. I've had practice attempts to lower altitudes with a CFI or on my own. But, I've never gone lower than 500 with an examiner. On the 709 ride, he specifically stated upon pulling power to recover at 500. I can't recall what happen on my PPL ride. That was a "few" years ago. As I said, it's a judgment call. I pick up what I can from him while reviewing what maneuvers he'll want to see. All indications were he wanted to maintain a fairly safe altitude. I'm all for that. Even in less wind, I'd still rather stay around the 800 foot level on the low side. Some of the terrain in that area varies just too much and you don't have a great view to right side while steeply banked to left.


LOL You don't use chicken barns around here. We have chicken barns like Kansas has wheat fields. Gainesville and North Georgia is the chicken capital of the East Coast. Usually, my points are a home or other building on top of a higher point (Less usuable in warmer months). Occasionally, I'll luck out and get lined up to use a point of land sticking out into the lake for one and an island on the lake. We don't have valleys; just wide areas with trees turning to ravines headed toward the lake. Potential landing fields are scattered but relatively small. Often, a road is the better choice if you get a good straight stretch. The divided highways built in the last decade make good locations and have been used many times the last few years.


We never got off the ground. We went through preflight, on to run-up and the plug was fouled again. It's the same plug on the same cylinder every time. It was replaced about fifteen hours back but it still happens. The other plug on that cylinder is fine. Someone was suggesting a timing problem. I'm wondering about a spark problem off the magneto for that specific plug. I'm scheduled again for Wednesday afternoon.

 

[KennyFlys]

The problem is increasing the margin of safety to the point to where you aren't safe. Not only that you also apply your extreme safety measures on the operations of other pilots and have the balls to say they aren't safe.

Only so long will someone listen to you telling them how unsafe they are before they respond and question your words of wisdom.

Whatever.

 

[Bill]

two) does Cirrus marketing strategy encourage choosing the wrong plane for the mission? (That assumes the buyer is not as well educated to what the right plane would be.)

I can't quote their ad vertbatim, but, I have seen Cirrus ads that say words to the effect:

"Beat the airlines door to door without even having to take off your shoes"

Ads like that attract type A's like stink to a ****wagon.

 

[Bill]

(actually, I went to a motorcycle--Yamaha R-1--believe me, it wasn't meant to go slow).

Dave, I never imagined you as an R-1 type guy, cool! I had to give up the full on sportbikes. I know my personality, sportbikes and pain free life seem to be mutually exclusive. I like my sport tourer, but it could use some more steam, especially passing long lines of cars.

 

[AirBaker]

Dave, I never imagined you as an R-1 type guy, cool! I had to give up the full on sportbikes. I know my personality, sportbikes and pain free life seem to be mutually exclusive. I like my sport tourer, but it could use some more steam, especially passing long lines of cars.

Well he is flying a P-Baron and not a Caravan.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Dave, I never imagined you as an R-1 type guy, cool! I had to give up the full on sportbikes. I know my personality, sportbikes and pain free life seem to be mutually exclusive. I like my sport tourer, but it could use some more steam, especially passing long lines of cars.

Yea Bill, at one time I was pretty aggressive in some areas . The R-1 just flat got me in trouble! I believe the horsepower to weight ratio was pretty close to a Nascar vehicle and I was drivin it on the street. Light would change to green--zip, I was over the speed limit. Looked into the rearview mirror and the row of inattentive drivers I had been at the ligth with were still parked when I was 1/4 mile or more ahead. Problem was I would stop 5 to 10 mph above the speed limit, after the other folks got their little steel boxes going, they would speed until they caught up or passed and here I am riding a horse among trucks. I could accelerate, turn, and stop faster and I was paying attention, but they were going faster, changing lanes, reading while driving, talking on the cell phone, putting on make up, etc. The odds just weren't good! After the second incident where someone didn't see me, even though they pulled out in front of me on a thorough fare and I got to check the abrasiveness of the pavement on my Jergins soft skin, I got back in my own steel box.

That critter sure was fast. At the track down in College Station, I had it wide open 1/4 mile after the last turn onto the straightaway! Most bikes couldn't wind all the way out. Had it geared down. Only did 156, but got there very quickly

Now, I only go that fast in the air!

Looking forward to your visit.

Best,

Dave

 

[Steve]

I've signed up to do a demo ride in a -22 when the roadshow stops at MBO next week. If I get a slot I'll try flying the whole time w/o autopilot, 1)to see how it handles hand flying and 2) to see how they market the plane without using it.

I may be asked to leave after they see the IAR.....

 

[bbchien]

How about just making proficiency requirements more strict? Perhaps, for all pilots?

I think i've been saying that for some time.....or maybe I forgot to.

Did I mention we need to increase proficiency requirements?
Did I forget to mention that GA pilots spend amazingly little time on proficiency?

sigh.

 

[KennyFlys]

I think I've been saying that for some time.....or maybe I forgot to.

Did I mention we need to increase proficiency requirements?
Did I forget to mention that GA pilots spend amazingly little time on proficiency?

Preach it, brother!

I mean... Doc!

Constantly saying something to people is the only way it will change. Perhaps, sometimes having to refuse to fly with someone you believe to be unsafe.

 

[colomtnflyer]

It seems this thread has meandered a bit to various subjects.

When it comes to training a student pilot for emergency descents and landings, I ask the student to tell me quickly where he is going to TOUCH DOWN. To have a student generally say 'in that field' is unacceptable.

I want them to be as specific as possible. Then we take it down.... and down.... and down.... Usually the student starts getting a bit concerned under 200'AGL. They get down right worried at 100'. But when they hit 50' they are about to scream.... At some point below 50' I have them go around.
From there, several things are learned.
First- did they even get close to the spot they had selected for touch down, and how good was their initial judgement of the landing site.
Second- how much time they had to perform their entire checklists, and which items had they forgotten (if any).
Third- if getting that close to the ground with a perfectly running airplane bothers them, then what will be their emotional/ pyschological state if they have to do it for real.

Before anyone jumps on me, allow me to say that I do not bust the 500' rule, regarding structure, vehicle, vessel, or person. (but we have scared the daylights out of some coyotes stalking a herd of antelopes ) And before a simulated emergency landing is taken to this degree, the student WILL show competency in go around procedures and the memory items on the emergency landing checklist. Only then is this exercise done.

As for a comment made earlier regarding having no place to land in the mtns. If this is the case, then you have already violated the PRIMARY RULE of mtn flying- "ALWAYS HAVE AN OUT". With experience in the mtns, you begin to see places to land which are reasonable, but escape the eye of the untrained. Even in the most rugged of terrain, there is almost always someplace to put it down on YOUR terms, not gravity's. You just have to be creative!

 

[Richard]

Colomtnflyer, that is a very good exercise and a good description of the task.

 

[lsimonds]

Lisa:

The Cirrus is a great plane if one wants a four seat sports car

Best,

Dave

Oh yes, that was exactly the appeal! I wanted it - come to Mama!

I found a Comanche 250 for rent up the road (LUD). Haven't confirmed it's still available or seen what kind of shape it's in. If it's in good shape I think I'll get my high performance sign off in it. I've been reading up and the Comanche 250 resembles the 1960's version of Cirrus. I'm flying a Cherokee 180C regularly now and like it alot. Almost all of my complex time is in Arrows, which I also like very much. I hope this Comanche works out.

I'm a safety girl - it's my line of work - so risk mitigation is important (number 1 right in front of having fun!)

Thanks!

Lisa

 

[lsimonds]

I never said teenage driver

The Columbia isn't selling nearly as many planes. I don't know what the percentage of the fleet is when it comes to accidents. Do you have any figures on that?

The same kind of thing happened years ago with the V-tail Bonanza. Big engine in a slicker, faster plane. Guys without a lot of time purchased them and the plane got away from them (rudder elevator issues aside).

Lots of guys step up from a mild mannered sedan to a powerful sports car and get in trouble on the street--yours truly included (actually, I went to a motorcycle--Yamaha R-1--believe me, it wasn't meant to go slow).

You don't have to buy it! I think they can be rented

Another point is fractional ownership. A lot of these planes are being placed through fractional ownership programs. That puts a lot of planes in the hands of a person which might not be able to purchase one.

Best,

Dave

Dave, I wouldn't be surprised of Columbia and Lancair had similar stats. I remember a rash of Lancairs crashing last year.

I checked out that fractional ownership - Maybe when I retire. Right now, the pay as I go (rental) route is best for me. I'm on the road all the time and only get to fly a half dozen times or so a month - most of that is devoted to instrument training or "burger getting".

It sure was sweet to fly state of the art after a regular diet of 1965! I love the 180C I fly though. There was about 600 lbs of us on board the other night and 40 gallons of gas and that little machine still climbed at 1200 fpm. It's fun to fly.

Lisa

 

[lsimonds]

I've signed up to do a demo ride in a -22 when the roadshow stops at MBO next week. If I get a slot I'll try flying the whole time w/o autopilot, 1)to see how it handles hand flying and 2) to see how they market the plane without using it.

I may be asked to leave after they see the IAR.....

Have fun with that. They will want to run that autopilot the whole time to show it off. Let us know what you think of hand-flying it. I expected it to be a little touchy like a DA-40, but it wasn't at all. Very stable and I thought nice for IFR.

Lisa