Cirrus SR20 down at KFNL (Fort Collins/Loveland, CO)

V1-Vr-V2

V1-Vr-V2

Pre-Flight
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
95
Location
Longmont, CO
Display Name
Display name:
V1-Vr-V2
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...irport-pilot-suffers-serious-injuries12052014


Well crap. Hope the pilot is on his way toward a speedy recovery. N407ND was available through Leading Edge Flight Training out of FNL (Ft. Collins / Loveland airport - known locally as "Fort Love"). It looks pretty balled-up but the cockpit is intact which seems like good news.

I've flown her once before and was hoping to get checked out starting in January... Guess that's not going to happen now. At $153/hr it was cheapest Cirrus in the area by about $50+/hr. Prayers to the pilot for a speedy recovery.

This is the second "I want to fly that [local] plane" that has ended up as a write-off in the past two months. Ugh - I'm thinking I might be bad luck.
 
Yikes - that looks really torn up, but the cockpit looks great. Glad he survived and that there was no fire. Was it windy there today?
 
DesertNomad said:
Was it windy there today?
Click to expand...

Not at all - it was a really nice day, in fact.

KFNL 052255Z AUTO 09004KT 10SM CLR 13/M04 A3026
KFNL 052235Z AUTO 07005KT 10SM CLR 14/M03 A3024
KFNL 052215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 14/M04 A3023
KFNL 051955Z AUTO 21005KT 10SM CLR 14/M02 A3020
KFNL 051935Z AUTO 22005KT 10SM CLR 13/M02 A3020

Sounds like the crash was at around 2200 zulu.
 
The media calls it a "hard landing". It's in pieces and folded in half.
 
Glad to see no serious injuries,sad that another airplane destroyed.
 
To early to speculate, but possibly another word to the wise...Cirrus can be the safest plane in the air (and the current accident rate is starting to show that). But a Cirrus is NOT easy to fly. If you fly one, get plenty of instruction, and by all means watch your airspeed on final, and watch your angle of attack, because you get no tactile feedback from the controls prior to a stall.

Cirrus...the plane that feels easy to fly until one day she sneaks up on you and tricks you.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Cirrus...the plane that feels easy to fly until one day she sneaks up on you and tricks you.
Click to expand...

And your out of chute range....;)

Cirrus no doubt will chalk this up into the win category...no fatalities.:rolleyes:
 
Take a look at the early part of the video. It looks like he put the right wheel through wing! That would classify as a hard landing in my book...
 
Reportedly a student solo doing 'S-turns' for spacing behind traffic, ended up stalling. Glad he made it, hopefully a speedy recovery.
 
sourdough44 said:
Reportedly a student solo doing 'S-turns' for spacing behind traffic, ended up stalling. Glad he made it, hopefully a speedy recovery.
Click to expand...

aircraft is off the side of the runway...sorta difficult to think it's related to 's-turns' but maybe...
 
N801BH said:
Any Live ATC from that airport???
Click to expand...

FNL is not on live ATC. The field is uncontrolled but does get a little busy at times with student traffic from the area (GXY, EIK, BDU, BJC). At one time there was talk of running a virtual tower but nothing came of it. Allegiant quit scheduled service but I think they still screen and bus pax to DEN.
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
And your out of chute range....;)

Cirrus no doubt will chalk this up into the win category...no fatalities.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

More mis-information / unfounded Cirrus bashing above! The Cirrus Owers and Pilots Association site is NOT chalking this up as a win. There is a great deal of sympathy for the pilot, and some good analysis so far.

Would be interesting to know why some folks bash Cirrus, no matter what happens...such as now having one of the lowest fatality rates in the industry.

At the end of the day, I guess it doesn't matter. Facts are facts.

Cirrus is hard to fly. Do the full training and you're now in one of the safest planes out there. Falling prey to the myth that "Cirrus is easy to fly"? Take out some really good life insurance.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
Cirrus is hard to fly...Falling prey to the myth that "Cirrus is easy to fly"? Take out some really good life insurance.
Click to expand...

I'll continue to take issue with this.

My take? For a well-rounded pilot, its just another plane.

I became a Cirrus Standardized Instructor, and transitioned a handful of pilots to the Cirrus, including a PP applicant. Just not that big a deal.

For someone who has only flown high wing Cessna's, let's say, it will take some adjustment. Coming from a Grumman or a Mooney, not so much.

But the perception is the reality, so if a pilot expects it to be hard, it likely will be.
 
Student pilot. Second solo, first landing. I know more but won't be giving more info.
 
I love how when someone crashes a Bonanza or a Mooney it's all solidarity and concern but if it happens in a Cirrus the whole thread turns into pilot- and plane-bashing.

Plane envy is a funny thing.

As a side note I did some stall work in a Cirrus very recently and that thing will yell at you 5 different ways before it stalls.
 
Last edited:
FastEddieB said:
I'll continue to take issue with this.

My take? For a well-rounded pilot, its just another plane.

I became a Cirrus Standardized Instructor, and transitioned a handful of pilots to the Cirrus, including a PP applicant. Just not that big a deal.
Click to expand...
I agree completely with your take.

The Cirrus is a very easy airplane to fly. Handles well and predictably. Sometimes I think part of the problem some pilots have is that it's too easy to fly. So ergonomically laid out it can lead to a false sense of security. Not some much to a student for whom it is is first airplane though.
 
Last edited:
Putting together the pieces that I'm reading here and in other forums, it sounds like it was a student pilot on his second solo (unconfirmed) and he possibly flew into the rotor wash from a Blackhawk helo that landed before him. He may have tried to go-around but was caught in the rotor wash and the plane rolled to an unrecoverable attitude given the low altitude. Looking at the METARs around the accident time, the winds were pretty close to zilch so probably not a whole lot of dissipation or movement of the turbulent air so it all seems to have added up to the accident chain - could have happened to anyone of us, I suppose. Sorry that it had to happen to a student pilot on his second solo. Prayers to him for a speedy recovery.
 
Strongly disagree, Fast Eddie. The accident statistics prove otherwise. Anything in life is "easy" once you learn it. Fact is, until Cirrus instituted formal training and one the world's best GA safety programs, the Cirrus safety record was awful.

Cirrus is faster, lands longer, is more prone to landing accidents due to small speed variations, and is more prone to loss of control.

Let's put it this way...yes...Cirrus is "easy to fly" for those with plenty of training and experience, the same way anything is easy once you learn it.

I am current in 7 types of airplanes and own a Cirrus SR22. The Cirrus is still the hardest to fly, and I'm pushing 75 hours.

Every time I get back into a 172 or PA series, I remember just how much I've learned, and how "easy to fly" these other planes are.

FastEddieB said:
I'll continue to take issue with this.

My take? For a well-rounded pilot, its just another plane.

I became a Cirrus Standardized Instructor, and transitioned a handful of pilots to the Cirrus, including a PP applicant. Just not that big a deal.

For someone who has only flown high wing Cessna's, let's say, it will take some adjustment. Coming from a Grumman or a Mooney, not so much.

But the perception is the reality, so if a pilot expects it to be hard, it likely will be.
Click to expand...
 
I guess we disagree then! ;)

I guess it boils down to...

If you find a Cirrus easy to fly, you'll say a Cirrus is easy to fly.

If you find a Cirrus hard to fly, you'll say a Cirrus is hard to fly.

And if you find a Cirrus just another plane, you'll say a Cirrus is just another plane.

One important clarification: I'm talking about the actual flight characteristics.

Add in the complexity of the avionics and other systems, and it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Jump into a Garmin Perspective Cirrus for the first time and something as simple as changing frequencies or squawk codes that should be simple - isn't.

I flew with a friend who was showing me how capable his new Cirrus was with its Garmin suite. He had about 50 hours with it (after a whole bunch more in an Avidyne-equipped SR22). Really impressive. And then at Greenville, SC, he could not get the autopilot to capture the glideslope. On a subsequent try it did work, but these things are a long way from intuitive.

Anyway, I think that angle is more responsible for some of the initial high accident rates than the way the plane actually flies. Though admittedly in some areas (fast/flat landings and go-around) a Cirrus can be a handful, though that's true of many other planes in its class as well.
 
sourdough44 said:
Reportedly a student solo doing 'S-turns' for spacing behind traffic, ended up stalling. Glad he made it, hopefully a speedy recovery.
Click to expand...

This is why I think teaching S Turns to a primary student is a bad idea. If he's up the six of ahead traffic at a pilot controlled airport he should disengage. Even if he managed the spacing, there is no way to know if the traffic will clear the runway before he touches down.
 
Great we live in a country where we can disagree and be civil to one another, huh? Someone should tell Washington (and my relatives who have cut off all contact because we go to different churches and you can only get to heaven in their church).

I will give you this one concession...a middle ground...Cirri' (is that the plural?) handle much, much better in crosswinds. Nothing quite like a slow high wing and a gusty crosswind. :yikes:

FastEddieB said:
I guess we disagree then! ;)

I guess it boils down to...

If you find a Cirrus easy to fly, you'll say a Cirrus is easy to fly.

If you find a Cirrus hard to fly, you'll say a Cirrus is hard to fly.

And if you find a Cirrus just another plane, you'll say a Cirrus is just another plane.

One important clarification: I'm talking about the actual flight characteristics.

Add in the complexity of the avionics and other systems, and it's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Jump into a Garmin Perspective Cirrus for the first time and something as simple as changing frequencies or squawk codes that should be simple - isn't.

I flew with a friend who was showing me how capable his new Cirrus was with its Garmin suite. He had about 50 hours with it (after a whole bunch more in an Avidyne-equipped SR22). Really impressive. And then at Greenville, SC, he could not get the autopilot to capture the glideslope. On a subsequent try it did work, but these things are a long way from intuitive.

Anyway, I think that angle is more responsible for some of the initial high accident rates than the way the plane actually flies. Though admittedly in some areas (fast/flat landings and go-around) a Cirrus can be a handful, though that's true of many other planes in its class as well.
Click to expand...
 
V1-Vr-V2 said:
I've flown her once before and was hoping to get checked out starting in January... Guess that's not going to happen now. At $153/hr it was cheapest Cirrus in the area by about $50+/hr.
Click to expand...

Is that $153 wet?

I wish our club would ditch the M20J's for some SR20's. I think insurance would make SR22's impractical, but it seems the SR20's are a lot easier to insure and have nearly the same acquisition cost and operating cost as M20J's.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This is why I think teaching S Turns to a primary student is a bad idea. If he's up the six of ahead traffic at a pilot controlled airport he should disengage. Even if he managed the spacing, there is no way to know if the traffic will clear the runway before he touches down.
Click to expand...


Agreed 100%........
 
VWGhiaBob said:
More mis-information / unfounded Cirrus bashing above! The Cirrus Owers and Pilots Association site is NOT chalking this up as a win. There is a great deal of sympathy for the pilot, and some good analysis so far.

Would be interesting to know why some folks bash Cirrus, no matter what happens...such as now having one of the lowest fatality rates in the industry.

At the end of the day, I guess it doesn't matter. Facts are facts.

Cirrus is hard to fly. Do the full training and you're now in one of the safest planes out there. Falling prey to the myth that "Cirrus is easy to fly"? Take out some really good life insurance.
Click to expand...

Because they can't afford one so they rationalize that away by claiming it's a POS for idiots that aren't "Real Pilots" because "Real Pilots" don't need any of that expensive crap.
 
Ive heard Cirrus' are in the shop a lot. Is that true? One story I read, the plane was only available 1/3rd of the time. YIKES! All that fancy stuff has to be fixed I guess.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Ive heard Cirrus' are in the shop a lot. Is that true? One story I read, the plane was only available 1/3rd of the time. YIKES! All that fancy stuff has to be fixed I guess.
Click to expand...

The mechanics I've talked to have said they break just about like any other aircraft....of course that is ignoring the Avidyne versions...

Anyway, the context was that one might expect new aircraft to require less maintenance than our old spam cans. The guys said that wasn't true much to folks' disappointment. I think maybe it has as much to do with how we treat the aircraft as much as the age/design generation.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Ive heard Cirrus' are in the shop a lot. Is that true?
Click to expand...

The plane is comparable to a Cessna 182 of the same vintage. Reliability should also be roughly the same. For example, front gear shimmy is a fairly frequent small maintenance issue for Cirri as well as for other makes. There are a few peculiar maintenance issues for Cirri, but many of them are minor, such as inspecting temperature sensor decals on the brakes, during an annual inspection.

That said, compared to normally aspirated planes, turbocharged SR22s do spend more time in a shop, and their engines don't last as long. I don't know the extent to which this is the same for other turbocharged planes.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This is why I think teaching S Turns to a primary student is a bad idea.
Click to expand...
I can see where this could turn into another argument like teaching people to fly faster than "normal" on final.
 
Wishing the pilot a complete and speedy recovery. Whatever happened (lots of speculation in these threads), it seems that the airplane afforded enough protection to enable the pilot to survive.

I am just transitioning in Cirrus (former naval avaiator). I am finding the Cirrus to be a little touchy in close. Light weight, low wing, and in ground effect, it wants to keep flying. Milking it down without floating, porpoising, etc.seems to take some practice. Add a little adverse wind and some distractions like traffic...

I love flying the airplane and really like the formalized training that Cirrus has instituted.
 
rob.freedman@comcast.net said:
Wishing the pilot a complete and speedy recovery. Whatever happened (lots of speculation in these threads), it seems that the airplane afforded enough protection to enable the pilot to survive.

I am just transitioning in Cirrus (former naval avaiator). I am finding the Cirrus to be a little touchy in close. Light weight, low wing, and in ground effect, it wants to keep flying. Milking it down without floating, porpoising, etc.seems to take some practice. Add a little adverse wind and some distractions like traffic...

I love flying the airplane and really like the formalized training that Cirrus has instituted.
Click to expand...


First post....

Welcome to POA....

:cheers::cheers:
 
coloradobluesky said:
Ive heard Cirrus' are in the shop a lot. Is that true? One story I read, the plane was only available 1/3rd of the time. YIKES! All that fancy stuff has to be fixed I guess.
Click to expand...

We researched Cirri as a possible addition to our club. Conclusion after talking to a flight school that has them as well as being a Cirri repair center is they are on par with anything else for MTBF on stuff, repairs can be considerably more expensive than your run of the mill bolt-n-rivet alumiCraft...
 
FastEddieB said:
My memory may be off, but I recall this was a preflight item.
Click to expand...


There are two kinds of temp sensors on Cirrus brakes. The one that indicates a previous very-high-temperature event is visible with the pant on, for preflight inspection. The other one is hidden behind the pant, and it becomes dark to indicate a less extreme high temperature event. The latter is typically inspected annually.

The brakes themselves are the same as on many other GA planes of similar weight. The special temp sensor stickers are needed for Cirrus because the brakes don't cool as well in tight-fitting fairings.
 
FastEddieB said:
Are they not still a required ground reference maneuver?

And I recall they normally precede pattern work.

That said, a student should also be primed to say "unable" without feeling embarrassment.
Click to expand...

My pre-solo instructor did not teach ground reference maneuvers. I did the in my checkride prep and found them easy by that time. He was right.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top