Cirrus or Lance?

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Ben
Just when I'm feeling real comfortable in the SR20, our flight school put a Lance on the flightline--and it is $26 less, per hour.

I have about 50 hours in Saratoga, so I think I'll just need a simple checkout, but I don't know. Let's argue it over:

Cirrus pros: Fast, efficient, fun, extremely modern panel with all the goodies, and parachute.

Lance pros: Faster than Cirrus, more interior room, cheaper per hour (and probably per mile).

Factors not known: what the Lance panel looks like, and what the condition of the interior is like. (Those might actually tip things one way or the other.)

I don't fly enough per year to be current and proficient in two very different airplanes, so I want to either stick with the Cirrus, or make a switch.
 
Rumor has it that required control pressures are higher on Lance during cross-wind landings. :D:wink2:

spiderweb said:
Just when I'm feeling real comfortable in the SR20, our flight school put a Lance on the flightline--and it is $26 less, per hour.

I have about 50 hours in Saratoga, so I think I'll just need a simple checkout, but I don't know. Let's argue it over:

Cirrus pros: Fast, efficient, fun, extremely modern panel with all the goodies, and parachute.

Lance pros: Faster than Cirrus, more interior room, cheaper per hour (and probably per mile).

Factors not known: what the Lance panel looks like, and what the condition of the interior is like. (Those might actually tip things one way or the other.)

I don't fly enough per year to be current and proficient in two very different airplanes, so I want to either stick with the Cirrus, or make a switch.
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You can carry a lot more in the Lance than in an SR20 Cirrus. Does the Cirrus carry enough to meet your needs? If not, the decision is made for you. If it does, then the cheaper Lance probably makes more sense, but you still may like the Cirrus better (especially if it has the glass panel avionics). The one thing of which you can be sure is that there won't be a glass panel avionics suite in the Lance.
 
I think I know where you fly from, OP!

As for actual relevant content, I have not flown either plane or have enough experience to gauge which is better because I would probably find both to be super fun to fly.
 
I'd go Lance unless the non glass panel really bothers you or you're going on an extended trip where the increased fuel burn might cost you something out of pocket.

Very minor differences between the Saratoga (I'm assuming that it was a retract) and the Lance.
 
I've never seen the numbers for an SR20, but I am suprised to hear that it is slower. The Lance is not a fast airplane.

That said, I'd personally go for the Lance. Much greater utility and hauling capability with the PA32R.
 
The Lance will allow you to build Complex and Retractable time. Solid VFR/IFR airplanes with a ton of interior room and decent load. Is it a standard or T-Tail, normal or turbo?

The interior of the Lance could be ANYTHING from a Brady Bunch shag-fest to a complete new Airtex. When I bought mine it was Harvest Gold and sh*** Brown shag carpet...ugly!
 
there is only one relevant question: are you buying the gas or is it a wet rental ?
 
weilke said:
It'll carry the entire string quartet :yes:
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...with their fiddles (and not in their laps). With the SR20, they'd all need to be skinny, and the cello would be strapped to the belly (which ain't gonna do much for cruise speed).
 
or sound quality at the next gig.
Ron Levy said:
...with their fiddles (and not in their laps). With the SR20, they'd all need to be skinny, and the cello would be strapped to the belly (which ain't gonna do much for cruise speed).
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If you remember how the 'Toga flew, I think you will find that while the Lance does not fly a lot differently, it is a bit more ponderous, if you can imagine that. None of the PA-32s are particularly fun to fly, but they do carry a lot and have lots of space. If you are looking for transport, it's hard to beat a Lance in terms of utility. If you fly more recreationally, you might want to think about the Cirrus even if it costs a little more because IMO it would be a little more satisfying.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I've never seen the numbers for an SR20, but I am suprised to hear that it is slower. The Lance is not a fast airplane.

That said, I'd personally go for the Lance. Much greater utility and hauling capability with the PA32R.
Click to expand...

The SR20 does a good 150 - 155 kts, but my experience with the Saratoga has been a solid 160 kts every time.

I guess I have to see that panel. It has been a few years since I've flown steam.
 
Baron2PG said:
The Lance will allow you to build Complex and Retractable time. Solid VFR/IFR airplanes with a ton of interior room and decent load. Is it a standard or T-Tail, normal or turbo?

The interior of the Lance could be ANYTHING from a Brady Bunch shag-fest to a complete new Airtex. When I bought mine it was Harvest Gold and sh*** Brown shag carpet...ugly!
Click to expand...

I will know more about it on Saturday. I believe it is a straight-tail, NA.
 
Ken Ibold said:
If you remember how the 'Toga flew, I think you will find that while the Lance does not fly a lot differently, it is a bit more ponderous, if you can imagine that. None of the PA-32s are particularly fun to fly, but they do carry a lot and have lots of space. If you are looking for transport, it's hard to beat a Lance in terms of utility. If you fly more recreationally, you might want to think about the Cirrus even if it costs a little more because IMO it would be a little more satisfying.
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It is about half and half. I can't believe the Lance is even more heavy than the Saratoga. That thing is a truck!
 
spiderweb said:
The SR20 does a good 150 - 155 kts, but my experience with the Saratoga has been a solid 160 kts every time.

I guess I have to see that panel. It has been a few years since I've flown steam.
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How wide is the Sr20? And what useful load?

IIRC when i rode in an Sr20 is was the widest single engine piston GA bird I've ever flown in.
 
The Sr series is 49" across. It's very nice inside. But will admit, I looked at a Saratoga. When I flew it, it flew like a big SUV, while the cirrus is a sports car. Both have their missions.
 
DavidWhite said:
How wide is the Sr20? And what useful load?

IIRC when i rode in an Sr20 is was the widest single engine piston GA bird I've ever flown in.
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The width of the Cirrus and PA32s are about the same--very comfy. The useful load of the PA32 is better than the Cirrus, in that it is more flexible. If you fill all 6 seats and full fuel, you aren't going far, but if you only have three people and bags, and full fuel, you will go far. The Cirrus has an excellent range, as well.
 
jmp470 said:
The Sr series is 49" across. It's very nice inside. But will admit, I looked at a Saratoga. When I flew it, it flew like a big SUV, while the cirrus is a sports car. Both have their missions.
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So you see my conundrum!
 
spiderweb said:
The SR20 does a good 150 - 155 kts, but my experience with the Saratoga has been a solid 160 kts every time.

I guess I have to see that panel. It has been a few years since I've flown steam.
Click to expand...
If we're talking only 5, maybe 10 kts difference, then definitely go with the Lance....FAR more bang for the buck.
 
Fearless Tower said:
If we're talking only 5, maybe 10 kts difference, then definitely go with the Lance....FAR more bang for the buck.
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I think the thing that holds me back from what would seem to be an otherwise obvious choice (Lance) is the panel. The Perspective and Garmin AP are SO incredibly powerful. They make flying fun, efficient, and take the stress away to a large degree.

I guess if the Lance has, say, and HSI, a 530, and some form of traffic and weather avoidance, then it will "turn me."

But since Ken has characterized it as a FedEd Panel Van, and after flying the very fun and nimble Cirrus, I am not so enthused about the Lance!
 
With the Saratoga time you already have, you wont have a problem to maintain proficiency in both, the SR20 and the Lance. The Lance is a Cherokee 6 with folding legs, with the exception of that additional lever, there is not much to it.
If it's just you and and the wife going somewhere, take the SR20. If it's you, the Cello and 4 fat guys from the barbershop quartet, you take the Lance.
 
weilke said:
With the Saratoga time you already have, you wont have a problem to maintain proficiency in both, the SR20 and the Lance. The Lance is a Cherokee 6 with folding legs, with the exception of that additional lever, there is not much to it.
If it's just you and and the wife going somewhere, take the SR20. If it's you, the Cello and 4 fat guys from the barbershop quartet, you take the Lance.
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Hahaha!

You're probably right. I haven't flown the Saratoga, though, in several years. The control feel is so different, but it is true that the pattern speeds and even landing attitude is similar.

The cheap hourly price is sending up red flags, though. I have to see that bird in person. Will report back Saturday!
 
spiderweb said:
The cheap hourly price is sending up red flags, though.
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Yeah, that doesn't sound right, particularly for wet prices. The Lance is going to take 50% more fuel than the SR20, the angle-valve IO540 is pricey to overhaul and the Lance has retract gear to maintain. So either someone has accepted a really crappy leaseback deal on his Lance, or the SR20 owner managed to cut a pretty good deal on his plane.
 
weilke said:
Yeah, that doesn't sound right, particularly for wet prices. The Lance is going to take 50% more fuel than the SR20, the angle-valve IO540 is pricey to overhaul and the Lance has retract gear to maintain. So either someone has accepted a really crappy leaseback deal on his Lance, or the SR20 owner managed to cut a pretty good deal on his plane.
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Well, there are two SR20s at this school, and they're priced the same. All decked out and basically new, their price is about right. Really nice Saratogas around here are going for $250 an hour and up, so I really wonder about this rate.

I'll let you know. Maybe it is just a fancy COMM trainer for the school, who knows?
 
Did I miss the part where you told us what each cost wet?
 
The Lance my school/FBO just picked up has the most hilariously red late 70s/early 80s interior. That said, it actually looks marginally comfortable.
 
The differences rate is not, in itself, any indication of a bad plane; it is a reflection of the fact that the Cirri are brand new and expensive airframes.

Post a little more about how the Lance is equipped.
 
HerrGruyere said:
The Lance my school/FBO just picked up has the most hilariously red late 70s/early 80s interior. That said, it actually looks marginally comfortable.
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And this is the same school we're talking about, right?
 
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