Cirrus down in the Bahamas

This is rare that nobody survived so close to land. Most water ditchings are survivable. Specially in the Bahamas where water temperatures are warm. But because no bodies were found maybe they swimmed or rafted to shore. Hope they are alive.

José
 

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Not all Bahamas water is shallow, and even most of the shallow stuff is >10' deep, if they were coming in from the North, that's all extremely deep water. If you're floating around the surface, you are food for Tiger sharks that inhabit the region
 
I'm very relaxed about a lot of things when it comes to flying...however I am dead set on having a raft on board if I cant reach the shore. Only having life jackets will never cut it for me.
 
Wreckage must have been severe if they are assuming the people aboard perished .
 
News said that the pilot reported a rough engine on departure and the crash was just after that. Perhaps not enough altitude for the chute, stalled trying to come back, who knows, sad.
 
Piloto said:
This is rare that nobody survived so close to land. Most water ditchings are survivable. Specially in the Bahamas where water temperatures are warm. But because no bodies were found maybe they swimmed or rafted to shore. Hope they are alive.

José
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definitely sad. It doesn't say how bad the wreckage is. Another guess, maybe they saw land and thought they could swim to it. When I've taken cruises, I could see land from miles away and could never appreciate the distances involved.
 
I tried to post a link to the local news story here in Indianapolis. Search WISHTV and Bahamas Crash to see the local news story, with pictures. The plane is a Indy area partnership.

Condolences to those involved.
 
BobThePilot said:
Or while we're all guessing, could be the chute was deployed and all was good, plane ends up in the water with chute draped over the plane... All occupants drown trying to get clear of the chute.

Like you said who knows. Very sad indeed.
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Pretty much impossible given the winds we have down here.
 
Pic here. Not pretty.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2499738/Four-sightseers-die-plane-crash-Bahamas.html
article-2499738-1957DA4700000578-601_634x438.jpg
 
well, at least they can recover the plane and figure out what was wrong with the engine if indeed they were having a legitimate problem.

RIP.
 
That looks like shallow water to me no deeper than a few feet. Observe that the engine has not sunk. It is possible that the plane hit the bottom and break up. But where are the bodies? Obviously not the traditional ditching scenario.

José
 
Piloto said:
That looks like shallow water to me no deeper than a few feet. Observe that the engine has not sunk. It is possible that the plane hit the bottom and break up. But where are the bodies? Obviously not the traditional ditching scenario.

José
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Yep, it's not north of Nassau, it's north of Grand Bahama, that's a very shallow shelf. I saw pictures of bodies on stretchers.
 
Latest report is all bodies where recovered,two identities have been released.
 
You guys are getting soft in your old age.

I can't believe that no one (especially Bruce) commented that this is probably the only known way to keep a Cirrus from being roasted in the post crash inferno.

(too soon?)

:wink2:
 
timwinters said:
You guys are getting soft in your old age.

I can't believe that no one (especially Bruce) commented that this is probably the only known way to keep a Cirrus from being roasted in the post crash inferno.

(too soon?)

:wink2:
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They were busy seeing if plastic bags float.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
 
timwinters said:
You guys are getting soft in your old age.

I can't believe that no one (especially Bruce) commented that this is probably the only known way to keep a Cirrus from being roasted in the post crash inferno.

(too soon?)

:wink2:
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Nah. This one is odd. they are 4 miles from the runway end, so he had some energy to work with and the ending ran for a period of time. The TV report from Fishers, IN says 7 miles offshore.

Enough energy to either get high enough to try the chute, or to try the hairpin.

I am surmising that he froze in the clutch and spun it in....
 
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Well rich weekend warrior + Cirrus +water...
 
bbchien said:
Nah. This one is odd. they are 4 miles from the runway end, so he had some energy to work with and the ending ran for a period of time. The TV report from Fishers, IN says 7 miles offshore.

Enough energy to either get high enough to try the chute, or to try the hairpin.

I am surmising that he froze in the clutch and spun it in....
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Agreed.......

Just FLY the plane.....:mad2::mad2::sad:
 
Henning said:
Not everyone can, that's just it. In the face of a fatal type emergency, some people disassociate like the guys in AF-447.
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No one will ever know what happened for sure in the Kennedy crash but some think that he may have disassociated also. It does happen.
 
Guess I could have said that nicer

Alexb2000 said:
I guess having 20 years experience flying doesn't mean you get a pass
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Nope, years flying mean VERY little to me, hours flown per month, who you've flown for, types flown, that stuff means something.

I've seen plenty of old timer weekend pilots at my home drome do rookie stuff and make landings that were worse then what pre-solo students used to make.
 
ChitDisturber said:
Guess I could have said that nicer


Nope, years flying mean VERY little to me...
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Reminded me of this, from Anthony deMello's "Awareness":

"Wisdom occurs when you drop barriers you have erected through your concepts and conditioning. Wisdom is not something acquired; wisdom is not experience; wisdom is not applying yesterday’s illusions to today’s problems. As somebody said to me while I was studying for my degree in psychology in Chicago years ago, “Frequently, in the life of a priest, fifty years’ experience is one year’s experience repeated fifty times.” ...Wisdom is to be sensitive to this situation, to this person, uninfluenced by any carryover from the past, without residue from the experience of the past."
 
FastEddieB said:
Reminded me of this, from Anthony deMello's "Awareness":

"Wisdom occurs when you drop barriers you have erected through your concepts and conditioning. Wisdom is not something acquired; wisdom is not experience; wisdom is not applying yesterday’s illusions to today’s problems. As somebody said to me while I was studying for my degree in psychology in Chicago years ago, “Frequently, in the life of a priest, fifty years’ experience is one year’s experience repeated fifty times.” ...Wisdom is to be sensitive to this situation, to this person, uninfluenced by any carryover from the past, without residue from the experience of the past."
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Doesn't resonate with me. Wisdom is usually knowing when to get the hell away because you've seen this train wreck before.

As in... Knowing not to make even a tiny disparaging remark on a pilot's ability in a thread, only a few days after a crash with fatalities, is wisdom.

And knowing it's going to happen on every Internet aviation forum, after every crash... every... single... time... is experience.
 
I was thinking about this last night and didn't see any mention of this on this discussion.

There were 4 people in this 2004 Cirrus SR22 airplane.

It seems as though there was 2 men and 2 women.

I'm thinking his weight and balance was way off. It does not take much to load up a cirrus and after looking into buying a newer SR22 with the 5th seat, I was blown away with how worthless even its useful load was.

Just try adding up what you and your friends would weigh on this link I found. It doesn't take much more than you, your wife and the family dog to max it out. http://www.valleyflyingclub.com/N560CD/cirrus22GTS.htm

So if this is the case, couldn't this explain his lack of altitude at 7 miles? Maybe he could barely get out of ground effect and thought it was his motor?

Regardless, I wish their families the best. Sad to loose anyone under the circumstances. RIP!
 
JasonM said:
It doesn't take much more than you, your wife and the family dog to max it out.

http://www.valleyflyingclub.com/N560CD/cirrus22GTS.htm
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Wow, you're not exaggerating.

Edit: Just used a template on WnB Pro for the SR-22, it's got more useful but not a lot, maybe another 120lbs. So either that template is a stripped down version (no AC?) or the template above is a pig, or some combination. Either way you appear to be on to something.
 
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Do you know their weights ? With 50gal of fuel and no luggage, I can see many scenarios where they are well within W+B limits. A 300hp Cirrus will fly if it is 150lbs over.

Wrong tree.
 
weilke said:
Do you know their weights ? With 50gal of fuel and no luggage, I can see many scenarios where they are well within W+B limits. A 300hp Cirrus will fly if it is 150lbs over.

Wrong tree.
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Maybe so.. :dunno:

Do you know how much fuel was on board or how much luggage was already possibly in the airplane? maybe a life raft and other survival gear? Could this have been that time where he took off before with 150lbs over no problem and thought another 100 would be ok?

I guess we could guesstimate weights based on these photos: http://www.thekathrynreport.com/2013/11/bahamas-police-small-plane-crash-likely.html
 
JasonM said:
So if this is the case, couldn't this explain his lack of altitude at 7 miles?
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Don't think so.

The max gross weight of the Cirrus is largely determined by the chute capacity.

Without an exemption for a ferry flight, one should never intentionally fly over gross, in a Cirrus or otherwise.

But with 310 hp, the actual climb performance of any Cirrus SR22 at nearly any conceivable weight would be just fine at sea level. You'd be off the charts and in test pilot category concerning stall speed and the CG envelope and the like, but you would still have plenty of performance and climb available.

Unless something was wrong with the engine, of course.
 
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JasonM said:
Maybe so.. :dunno:

Do you know how much fuel was on board or how much luggage was already possibly in the airplane?
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That is why. I was asking whether you know the weights. Without luggage and short loaded on fuel (like you would for a local sightseeing flight of the kind those folks did), it is entirely possssible to put 4 adults into a Cirrus.

The G5 Cirrus didn't get a different wing or a stronger engine but has a 200lbs increase in MTOW. 310hp is plenty enough to get a 3400lb 4-seater in the air. They were at sea level, if he got it out of ground effect, he had enough performance to climb out and remain aloft.
 
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