FastEddieB
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Cirrus Chute Repack
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Alexb2000
En-Route
I've heard that also, I just have no idea how anyone with a ticket could do that accidentally.
FastEddieB
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See link above.
FastEddieB
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Alexb2000
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Missed it the first time. OK, so it can happen accidentally, I guess. If you consider an aggressive pull up, more than 60 degrees of bank, and I bet a lot of rudder an accident. It just never occurs to me that someone would fly like that accidentally.
FastEddieB
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Check out the second one. Eerily similar.
I'll venture neither of the pilots involved, nor the instructor in the second case, thought themselves the kind of pilot to do something like this.
Kind of like you!
For me, I hope I would not stall/spin a Cirrus by accident. But I've done enough bone-headed things in airplanes over the years not to preclude anything.
I'll venture neither of the pilots involved, nor the instructor in the second case, thought themselves the kind of pilot to do something like this.
Kind of like you!
For me, I hope I would not stall/spin a Cirrus by accident. But I've done enough bone-headed things in airplanes over the years not to preclude anything.
It doesn't require a seasoned test pilot, the thing is first off nearly impossible to get to spin without making a concerted effort, then it recovers with normal anti spin inputs. One of my boating clients bought a G2 when they first came out and then got scared by stupid stories from idiots who know nothing and asked me if I would take the plane up and see if it was safe. It took me 5 tries before I could get it to tuck and rotate, (required a slightly accelerated stall and stomp to get it to rotate, otherwise it bobbled and went into a spiral). I had no problems telling him not to worry, the plane was safer with regards to inadvertent spinning than anything else I had flown and recovered just fine.
EASA required spin testing for European certification and it passed just fine. This whole subject is just bull**** made up by people who can't afford to buy a Cirrus to make them feel ok flying an inferior aircraft when it comes to safety features.
Anyone that can put a Cirrus in an accidental spin will do so with any other aircraft as well, and they shouldn't be flying at all because they are completely incompetent on the stick. As I said, it's the toughest plane to get in a spin I have been in.
Alexb2000
En-Route
OK, 234' AGL 60 degree S turn over one end of the runway to enter the pattern? BS. With an instructor on board, come on. I always tell people I fly with if you have a tight base to final, unload the wing at least, let it descend, and give yourself some AOA margin. Hammering the top rudder? He might have saved it if he didn't do that. These are just so far out there into kamikaze land, it's just exasperating.
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bnt83
Final Approach
The question still remains...
Why would degreed and highly paid engineers design a plane that had a parachute system incorporated in it and NOT add specific inspection /service panels to access it for maintenance ,and leave it for future owners /FBO's /mechanics to have to bore holes in the fuselage to perform required work...
Ya just can't make up that kind of stupidity.....
Corp Structures
#1 Sales/Marketing department trumps engineering department
#2 Get certified and sell airplanes as quickly as possible. It doesn't matter if they have to service bulletin or service kit the crap out of the first few hundred serial numbers to get them to a reliable standard. The faster they are brought to market the better.
The best part about #2 is - Once the airplane is out of warranty, if the owner neglected to get those SBs & SKs done on time, it won't cost the OEM a dime (usually). They might even make money selling the SB & SK upgrades.
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FastEddieB
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I never meant to imply they were easy to spin, nor more likely to spin than other aircraft. I was countering the allegation that they could not be spun by accident.
It's really beyond 'accident' to get one into a spin, it requires gross incompetence. "Accidentally" getting into a spin to me is getting too slow while skidding a turn and tucking into a spin. I was unable to produce a spin in this fashion as the split airfoil dynamics won't allow for it. The inside portion of the wing stalls first so the nose drops while still keeping the end of the wing with the aileron flying, and the difference in critical AOA between the inner and outer wing sections makes it so even with full aileron deflection, the inner panel will stall well before the outer.
I can't afford a Cirrus, but I sure won't dog one for that reason. It's the only single engine plane that I would fly the same routes and conditions I will take in a twin and still be as comfortable doing it.
Alexb2000
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If I fly a 777 into a mountain hot dogging, with the TAS-B screaming the whole way in, does that mean it happened by accident implying it could easily happen to another pilot? Or that the systems on a 777 allow accidental CFIT?
FastEddieB
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Re: Henning's comments:
I know all this.
I owned an SR22 for about 4 years
I became a Cirrus Standardized Instructor.
I also prepared one applicant for their Private in a Cirrus. Plus some small amount of transition and recurrent training.
So I've done lots and lots of stalls of all descriptions, and to date none by accident.
Never spun one. I take legality pretty seriously.
For those who say they'd never, ever, stall or spin an aircraft by accident, good for you.
Beyond that, I'd just be repeating myself.
I know all this.
I owned an SR22 for about 4 years
I became a Cirrus Standardized Instructor.
I also prepared one applicant for their Private in a Cirrus. Plus some small amount of transition and recurrent training.
So I've done lots and lots of stalls of all descriptions, and to date none by accident.
Never spun one. I take legality pretty seriously.
For those who say they'd never, ever, stall or spin an aircraft by accident, good for you.
Beyond that, I'd just be repeating myself.
FastEddieB
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I'll disengage.
I've attempted to make my point, such as it is, as clearly and concisely as possible, and linked to informational videos for support.
Again, waste of time to keep repeating myself.
Oh, I understand your point that it can happen, and agree, just that the fear mongering that still exists today over the "It has a chute because it can't recover from a spin" is just that, false fear mongering. As for the legalities of spinning the plane for a test, I'm not concerned, I don't make my living with my pilot's cert so I'm not worried about a potential 90 day rip.
Alexb2000
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Your a sharp guy, we were having a good discussion. If you want to disengage so be it, but you have to admit those example are pretty extreme and not indicative of normal flight behavior, that was my counterpoint. If you wanted to pick a nit and say any airplane can spin. OK you're right point taken.